Have you experienced a church split?

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Thank God I'm a Catholic.
We don't do the "split" thing.
I take exception to what appears to be a "my church is better than yours" attitude.

Please, TEP, we are Bridge Builders here. We want peace between all believers of any denomination. We don't want to play "us against them" or do any kind of smearing. This forum is for getting along, for focusing on our similarities rather than our differences. May I urge you please to come in with a dove in your hands, rather than a strutting rooster?

Peace be on you, and on the Bridge Builders.
 
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salamacum

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I was just thinking about this last Sunday, when we had Easter communion at our church. Here's the conclusion I came to.

His body was broken. His bones weren't. But He'd been flayed before the crucifixion, and He was a mess. The muscles on His back were probably exposed, the skin laid open. Then there's the piercing of the hands and feet--probably more accurately, the wrists and ankles, where the spikes would have gone between bones, rather than through. The stabbing with the spear after His death would have gone between ribs. Even the crown of thorns would have drawn blood. Most of the blood He shed, by the way, would have come from that flaying. Nails piercing His hands and feet would have meant puncture wounds, and I know from experience that puncture wounds don't bleed much. The piercing of His side drew blood mixed with water, indicating that His circulation had stopped.

So His blood was shed and His body was broken. But His bones stayed intact.

Now, splitting a church over "Jesus wept" is entirely ridiculous. If we were meant to know how much He cried, the verse would have been more specific, "Jesus shed some silent tears," or "Jesus bawled His head off." The point is that He was touched by human sorrow and that He loves us.


Yes, this is what I think. I probably wouldn't have problems with people praying in appreciation using these words or similar, but I've had people introducing the communion, 'remembering' the relevent short passages/texts from the NT and replacing 'given' with 'broken'.
Sloppy thinking I suppose.

When I raised this with one guy, he was mortified, as if he'd been caught out, found wanting, didn't know his bible etc etc.

Such hostages to fortune.

IMO, the splits I've experienced have been over 'direct revelation'/ bizarre manifestations and personality clashes.

The hatred over these still linger.
 
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E.C.

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It's true - the Catholics and the Orthodox don't do the split thing the way that evangelicals do.

But when there is a controversy it's massive.

Has any body written an article on why divisions seem so prevalent in the protestant world? Is it anything to do with sola scriptura itself?
From what I've seen of splits and or schisms within the Protestant world: either sola scriptura or the personality of a particular pastor.
 
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E.C.

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E.C. - have you made any postings about sola scriptura on the semper reformanda or fundamentalist boards.

Looking forward to our next explorers' / heretics group loosely connected to our pentecostal church.

Got a forthright lay Catholic coming to set us right or get grilled.

What would you like asking? Anyone?
That's not my part of town there, sorry.
 
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salamacum

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< < < That's not my part of town there > > >

Once upon a time, these forums were sub-titled "Bringing Christians Together".

I took that seriously and posted information-gathering itmes on various boards. I wanted to know what the reformed thought about the Orthodox for example. That particular thread on the Semper Reformanda was populated by some Orthodox people and was VERY interesting.

I sooned learned that there are RULES and more RULES and you could get reported basically for flaming, but which IMV were personal attempts to get under the surface of our biases and "bring Christians together"

These boards seem to have accepted that we will all converse in our small corners of the Christian world and we can never get togther even to explore difference.

It's all very sad.
 
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Izdaari Eristikon

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< < < That's not my part of town there > > >

Once upon a time, these forums were sub-titled "Bringing Christians Together".

I took that seriously and posted information-gathering itmes on various boards. I wanted to know what the reformed thought about the Orthodox for example. That particular thread on the Semper Reformanda was populated by some Orthodox people and was VERY interesting.

I sooned learned that there are RULES and more RULES and you could get reported basically for flaming, but which IMV were personal attempts to get under the surface of our biases and "bring Christians together"

These boards seem to have accepted that we will all converse in our small corners of the Christian world and we can never get togther even to explore difference.

It's all very sad.
Sad but true (which also happens to be my favorite Metallica song).

But all opinions (within the CF rules of course) are welcome at Bridge Builders so long as people mind their manners.
 
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E.C.

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< < < That's not my part of town there > > >

Once upon a time, these forums were sub-titled "Bringing Christians Together".

I took that seriously and posted information-gathering itmes on various boards. I wanted to know what the reformed thought about the Orthodox for example. That particular thread on the Semper Reformanda was populated by some Orthodox people and was VERY interesting.

I sooned learned that there are RULES and more RULES and you could get reported basically for flaming, but which IMV were personal attempts to get under the surface of our biases and "bring Christians together"

These boards seem to have accepted that we will all converse in our small corners of the Christian world and we can never get togther even to explore difference.

It's all very sad.
It's a theological language thing.

Example: I go onto the GT board a lot. I'm a convert to Orthodoxy from Catholicism, so when I see a lot of "Reformed" theological language like "justification", "sola scriptura", "Arminianism" and so forth, I have no clue what it means. The same would apply if I started using Orthodox theological language such as "theosis", "nous", "theoria", "noetic prayer" and even the word "heart" in some contexts than "Reformed" folks would probably have no idea what I was saying.

There are Orthodox posters here who came from Protestant backgrounds and would then know the theological language of Protestantism. I'm just not one of them, so I just post what I see.


I say theological language because, really, that's what it is. The Greek-speaking East and the Latin-speaking West were hugely differnt. In the East we have Orthodoxy and in the West we have Catholicism. Different culture, different langauge and different circumstances through the ages brought about a different theological language in both the East and the West. Protestantism, being derived from Catholicism, adopted the same sort of theological language of Catholicism.
There is also the whole mindset thing. Catholicism is "whatever the pope sayeth shall go". Protestantism appears to be "Reform reform reform". Whereas Orthodoxy is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" :D

I would wander into the boards you mentioned, but I just don't know the language of Reformed Protestants. I'm also one of those people that does a better job at answering questions than just endless blabbing of what's what.
 
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ChristianCritic

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A church split occurs whenever there aren't enough moderates around to keep the church together. This almost happened in my PC(USA) denomination but thankfully the moderates stepped up to the plate and came up with compromises and arrangements that just about everyone could live with.
 
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Zoness

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A church split occurs whenever there aren't enough moderates around to keep the church together. This almost happened in my PC(USA) denomination but thankfully the moderates stepped up to the plate and came up with compromises and arrangements that just about everyone could live with.

Go moderates :thumbsup: Looks like you got lucky there, in cases around here it is already so polarized that everyone has made up their minds before any negotiating takes place. Unfortunately none of this is limited to a single kind of church it happens in Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian churches all the time because the pendulum swings too far one way, we must bring it back or risk further chaos!
 
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BlackSabb

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My ex-girlfriend's Dad started a split in a church. There was a really conservative baptist church here in town that split over the issue of women being allowed to wear pants. One church said it was ok, the other did not so they formally split. Very similar churches in different buildings on different sides of town, all too conservative for me. It was a long and bad experience (much like dealing with my ex's family but that's another story for another thread).



That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of!!!! What century are we living in? Is it 2009 or 1909? Splitting over "women wearing pants".

I'm a guy that occasionally wears tights in the winter when it's really cold because of poor circulation. I think I'll walk into a church and cause a split over it.......:p

Can I get an amen?
 
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edie19

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A church split occurs whenever there aren't enough moderates around to keep the church together. This almost happened in my PC(USA) denomination but thankfully the moderates stepped up to the plate and came up with compromises and arrangements that just about everyone could live with.

that's a pretty sweeping statement and in my experience incorrect

if one is talking about a denomination you might be right - I know both the PCUSA and the UCC have some major issues these days - largely due to social issues

but an individual church split is often due to behaviors within the church - the churches I know of who've experienced splits have been specifically due to the behavior of the pastor (i.e. extra marital affairs or embezzlement) - nothing to do with doctrine at all
 
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salamacum

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I'm not diminishing marital infidelity or embezzlement but what about pride and it's more common manifestation, insecurity and inferiority-complex and control-freakery?
What we manage to do is subsume it under 'confidence in the Lord' 'leadership responsibility' 'need to answer to God' etc etc.
How many churches have lost good and capable people because they would be a threat to the pastor? My local Anglican church is like a Harem with acquiescent, unthinking pew-fillers of both sexes.
Another church I know surprisingly asked for a church review to help with succession.
Church members were interviewed and thge results were a total shock to one leader on the team. He'd lived in cloud-cuckoo land because nobody could stand up to him.
But God's will was done. It's a pity it took 15 years. He reacted very badly and even now can't see what the problem was. Nobody had been able to test hsi theology or spirituality or prophetic gift or leadership calling.
Maybe this is just a problem with small evangelical churches.
 
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Ladybug4Jesus

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The church our family went to when I was younger was growing quite quickly, and as a result, we had a considerable population of both the older, more traditional patrons and the younger, more modern group. There was an obvious squabble, and the youth of the church separated, my family included.

The new church was quite successful for about 10 years, until the governing body of the church went on some kind of retreat and came back spouting out a whole new gospel, which didn't sit right with a great deal of the church, and another split occured.

Fortunately the Youth Minister didn't subscribe to the new way of thinking and started a church for anybody that was left.
 
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AzA

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How did they know if the women were wearing pants or not?

:confused:
Trousers, my friend. Americans say "pants" for "trousers."
The concept for those who object to women in trousers is that trousers are men's clothing and so God-fearing women should not gender-bend by wearing them.

The soundness of this concept is debatable... hence the divisions.
 
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mont974x4

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Check out "Congress WBN" (Google it). The church became involved with that and set itself up with a hierarchical stratum. Authority flows from the top down and the top gets it's authority from an "Apostle" and so on....

We tried to resolve it. Didn't happen.

I don't want to sound innocent here. I went along with the teaching for quite a while but finally saw the truth of the beast. It's cultic. Period.

Bob
Spearfish, SD


Bob,

splits generally are explosions, from my experience anyways. They almost always start with something that sounds good but is either hollow or just wrong at their core.

Sorry you wnet through that, I've had my share.

Jason



BTW, I was in your neck of the woods in June. I went to Opal/Mud Butte to brand some late calves and do some home repairs on my friends family ranch.
 
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