Pope, King of the world?

[JacktheCatholic]

Well, all I go by is "what sayeth the Scriptures"

1 Corinthians 4:6 These-things, yet brethren, I after-figure into myself and Apollos thru/because-of ye, that in us ye may be learning the no above that which hath been Written/gegraptai <1125> (5769), that no one over the one ye may be puffed up against the other.

It may be a holier road you are taking. To be wrapped up in historical greivances and trying to always prove or defend something seems to take away from living a charitable life.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Np.........

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Have non-RCs been allowed inside to view those documents? How do we know some have not been changed over the centuries?

Don't know exactly... I know some have and that last year or so the Vatican released never before seen copies from trials for the Templar Knights. As I recall it this history was being worked on for restoration and such and copies were made to share with all.

I believe there are things in the Vatican that are not categorized so that we can simply go to a card index and find it. Instead things are being found as the Vatican can get to them for restoration purposes and such. I imagine it is a large job and that it takes lots of time to do it.

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

Well I see my demand for a link to an authoratative document caused the accusers to scurry into the shadows.

I figured as much.

.

 

[simonthezealot]

I found this article that concludes with this:


Vatican Library, Reference Service. "Re: Fwd: Verifying Information." E-mail to Marno Retief. 2 June 2004.

'It is, of course, a huge mistake. With much pain and time we found the passage you are quoting in the original manuscripts (Vaticanus latinus 2583, f. 258 v; Vat. lat. 1404, f. 22 r, both from 14th century), and in both it is clearly said "Dominum nostrum Papam". The wrong formulation, "Dominum Deum nostrum Papam", we found in an edition of the end of the 16th century, but these old editions cannot be philologically trusted. The original manuscripts have the correct version, and there is no word "Deum" in that sentence.'
​

Comments from Mr Marno Retief (who requested the information about the original manuscripts from Vatican Library)

'In Zenzelinus de Cassanis' original manuscripts (reference: Vaticanus latinus 2583, f. 258 v, and Vaticanus latinus 1404, f. 22 r, both from the 14th century) the word 'Deum' does NOT occur in the passage that anti-Catholics so often love to cite.' 'I am glad and thankful Vatican Library Reference Service so graciously assisted in finding out this information. The staff at the Vatican Library Reference Service was kind enough to go and look at the original 14th century manuscripts, and, as you know by now, they read 'Dominum nostrum Papam' and NOT 'Dominum Deum nostrum Papam'. Zenzelinus de Cassanis has been vindicated. For those anti-Catholics who are interested, there is an excellent article by Prof. Franz Gillman on how the erroneous phrase came to print in some of the later publications: Franz Gillmann, "Dominus Deus noster Papa"? (in: Archiv f. Kathol. Kirchenrecht 95, 1915, 266-282).'

http://www.angelfire.com/ms/seanie/forgeries/zenzelinus.html



It does seem a little over the top that anyone would refer to the pope as a deity.
​

The important part of the email from the vatican library reference...

The wrong formulation, "Dominum Deum nostrum Papam", we found in an edition of the end of the 16th century

 

[JacktheCatholic]

The important part of the email from the vatican library reference...

The wrong formulation, "Dominum Deum nostrum Papam", we found in an edition of the end of the 16th century

Still trying to make a square fit in a Triangle huh?

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

Please link us to the canon law that says that.

Do you want me to do all the work for you? You should have a desire to know the truth and seek it out.

You made the accusation, you provide the proof.

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

Sorry. I'm lagging behind in the conversation.

 

[_visionary_]

One would think that the deification of human beings would differ in Christianity from that of music art and literature, but nothing is further from the truth. Christianity is no different. And men are almost always bad men. One can only hope those that propogate such filth retire or change, God willing. I wish no evil open undeserving heads, but surely some evil is owed to an entity that affirms and influences others to deify human beings. For to deify another is most certainly a greater evil. I say this within context of the lawful deification of one being, Christ Jesus.

EDIT : Deification, veneration, and so forth. Let us not argue the meaning of words here gentleman. What an utterly pointless thing it would be.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

np.........

 

[_visionary_]

What else then would we argue about on GT?

Paul's the authority on this matter of "arguing about meanings of words". I'm searching e-Sword for a reference

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Np........

 

[_visionary_]

Here's another one to be read in context of course :

1 Timothy 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

 

[Rick Otto]

I'm not tryin' to interpret these, I just think they make for interesting & revealing reading, and are fully cited to link the information with an author & link that author with a document.

"Take care that we lose not that salvation, that life and breath which thou hast given us, for thou art our shepherd, thou art our physician, thou art our governor, thou art our husbandman, thou art finally another God on earth." Christopher Marcellus in Oration addressing Pope Julius II, in Fifth Lateran Council, Session IV (1512), Council Edition. Colm. Agrip. 1618, (Sacrorum Conciliorum, J.D. Mansi (ed.), Vol. 32, col. 761), (also quoted in History of the Councils, vol. XIV, col 109, by Labbe and Cossart).

"To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical." - The Gloss of Extravagantes of Pope John XXII, Cum. Inter, title 14, chapter 4, "Ad Callem Sexti Decretalium", Column 140, Paris, 1685. (In an Antwerp edition of the Extravagantes, the words, "Dominum Deum Nostrum Papam" (“Our Lord God the Pope”) can be found in column 153).

 

[spiritman]

Well I see my demand for a link to an authoratative document caused the accusers to scurry into the shadows.

I figured as much.

.

Do you have a need of patience? Patience is a fruit of the spirit. Do you think all I do is sit around my computer all day waiting for you to ask me questions?

The so called "accusers" that "scurry into the shadows" were mostly catholics who documented what was said by the leaders of your own religious sect.


You demand a link? What a joke! I didn't know I was under your jurisdiction. Should I also demand that you answer one of my questions which you avoided?

I'll be happy to provide you with many links after you answer my questions from a previous post.

I love answering questions and providing information that can benefit you. But you must first also give me your word that you will read completely each link I provide.

 

[Rick Otto]

Why have a link when you can have a pattie?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fW-UO80Sd0&feature=related

 

[lionroar0]

Lionroar0 King of the World



You are all my slaves.


Peace

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

.....You demand a link? What a joke! I didn't know I was under your jurisdiction......

It is customary to provide solid evidence rather than hearsay when you are making accusations against people. If you are unable to do that, then I'd suggest you refrain from spreading calumny.

 

[Rick Otto]

Solid, Jackson!

 

[simonthezealot]

It is customary to provide solid evidence rather than hearsay when you are making accusations against people. If you are unable to do that, then I'd suggest you refrain from spreading calumny.

Its been given and confirmed by the vatican library shown in a post by DD2008

Here you go again...
The Gloss extravagances of Pope John XXII Cum. Inter, tit XIV Ad Callem Sexti Decretalium, Paris, 1685