Pope, King of the world?

[Tu Es Petrus]

I found this on a google search but can't understand it

http://www.llmc.com/Title.asp?ColID=7&Cat=391&TID=3028&TName=Catholic%20Church,%20Pope%20John%20XXII%20%E2%80%94%20Extravagantes

Title:Catholic Church, Pope John XXII — Extravagantes
Author:Catholic Church, Pope John XXII.....

I appreciate your effort but that is not a Catholic website, let alone an "official" Catholic website.

I want the people who are making the accusations to link me to official Catholic documents online. If they don't have a link, then as far as I'm concerned, they don't have JACK.

(no offense Jack. )

 

[DD2008]

I found this article that concludes with this:


Vatican Library, Reference Service. "Re: Fwd: Verifying Information." E-mail to Marno Retief. 2 June 2004.

'It is, of course, a huge mistake. With much pain and time we found the passage you are quoting in the original manuscripts (Vaticanus latinus 2583, f. 258 v; Vat. lat. 1404, f. 22 r, both from 14th century), and in both it is clearly said "Dominum nostrum Papam". The wrong formulation, "Dominum Deum nostrum Papam", we found in an edition of the end of the 16th century, but these old editions cannot be philologically trusted. The original manuscripts have the correct version, and there is no word "Deum" in that sentence.'​

Comments from Mr Marno Retief (who requested the information about the original manuscripts from Vatican Library)

'In Zenzelinus de Cassanis' original manuscripts (reference: Vaticanus latinus 2583, f. 258 v, and Vaticanus latinus 1404, f. 22 r, both from the 14th century) the word 'Deum' does NOT occur in the passage that anti-Catholics so often love to cite.' 'I am glad and thankful Vatican Library Reference Service so graciously assisted in finding out this information. The staff at the Vatican Library Reference Service was kind enough to go and look at the original 14th century manuscripts, and, as you know by now, they read 'Dominum nostrum Papam' and NOT 'Dominum Deum nostrum Papam'. Zenzelinus de Cassanis has been vindicated. For those anti-Catholics who are interested, there is an excellent article by Prof. Franz Gillman on how the erroneous phrase came to print in some of the later publications: Franz Gillmann, "Dominus Deus noster Papa"? (in: Archiv f. Kathol. Kirchenrecht 95, 1915, 266-282).'

http://www.angelfire.com/ms/seanie/forgeries/zenzelinus.html



It does seem a little over the top that anyone would refer to the pope as a deity.
​

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I appreciate your effort but that is not a Catholic website, let alone an "official" Catholic website.

I want the people who are making the accusations to link me to official Catholic documents online. If they don't have a link, then as far as I'm concerned, they don't have JACK.

(no offense Jack. )

Ok.....

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

I've noticed that alot of this stuff doesn't come with a ready-made internet link. I've read stuff in books that I can't for the life of me find online.

The Vatican has a mountain of documents. So does EWTN.com. You can find just about any document at the Vatican website.

 

[Uphill Battle]

the rule doesn't state that it must be on the internet.


It just says post something as backup.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

the rule doesn't state that it must be on the internet.


It just says post something as backup.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Np.........

 

[Trento]

"

Do you want me to do all the work for you? You should have a desire to know the truth and seek it out.

Here is the truth about Popes and the Laity.All these phony arguments that the Pope is God and can't be resoned with is just pure BOASA.


In a letter to the weak and vacillating Pope Gregory in Avignon, Catherine Of Sienna exhorted him to:

"be a manly man...wanting to live in peace is often the greatest cruelty. When the boil has come to a head it must be cut with the lance and burned with fire and if that is not done, and only a plaster is put on it the corruption will spread and that is often worse than death. I wish to see you as a manly man so that you may serve the Bride of Christ (the church and its people) without fear, and work spiritually and temporally for the glory of God according to the needs of that sweet Bride in our times."
Pope Gregory headed her advice.Miss Kelly : St. Catherine of Sienna Feast Day/ "Be a Manly Man"
​

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Np..........

 

[JacktheCatholic]

"The pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not a mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God...
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]"The Pope alone is called most holy...[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]"Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown, as king of heaven and of earth and of hell.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]"Moreover the superiority and the power of the Roman Pontiff by no means pertains only to heavenly things, but also earthly things, and to things under the earth, and even over the angels, whom he his greater than.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]"So that if it were possible that the angels might err in the faith, or might think contrary to the faith, they could be judged and excommunicated by the Pope....[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]"...the Pope is as it were God on earth, sole sovereign of the faithful of Christ, chief of kings, having plenitude of power." Lucius Ferraris, in "Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Juridica, Moralis, Theologica, Ascetica, Polemica, Rubristica, Historica", Volume V, article on "Papa, Article II", titled "Concerning the extent of Papal dignity, authority, or dominion and infallibility", #1, 5, 13-15, 18, published in Petit-Montrouge (Paris) by J. P. Migne, 1858 edition.[/FONT]

I believe we have discussed these already and disproven some too. The ones disproven in red and for which I posted to and about previously as bad translations from Latin.

In blue is just a outright falsehood.

Also note that this is from an encyclopedia that is in Latin and has 4 or 5 revisions I believe. The last of them after the original author Lucius Ferraris died. It is well known that groups like the SDA have been proiven to have mistranslated some of the Latin to mean something it does and in the other cases it has been discussed.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Here is the truth about Popes and the Laity.All these phony arguments that the Pope is God and can't be resoned with is just pure BOASA.


In a letter to the weak and vacillating Pope Gregory in Avignon, Catherine Of Sienna exhorted him to:

"be a manly man...wanting to live in peace is often the greatest cruelty. When the boil has come to a head it must be cut with the lance and burned with fire and if that is not done, and only a plaster is put on it the corruption will spread and that is often worse than death. I wish to see you as a manly man so that you may serve the Bride of Christ (the church and its people) without fear, and work spiritually and temporally for the glory of God according to the needs of that sweet Bride in our times."
Pope Gregory headed her advice.
​

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Could there have been some destroyed that those outside of the Vatican heirarchy doen't know about? Just curious.

Sure.

However, I was watching one of those channels like the history channel or some such and they had a documentary on the Vatican. The archives at the Vatican are very extensive and are said to contain many documents and artifacts from the last 1,000 years. They have nuns working there constantly trying to keep them preserved.

 

[lionroar0]

the rule doesn't state that it must be on the internet.


It just says post something as backup.

I got back right here.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

"There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church....As a matter of fact, if we Catholics believed all of the untruths and lies which were said against the Church, we probably would hate the Church a thousand times more than they do." ARCHBISHOP FULTON J. SHEEN

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Np..........

 

[Uphill Battle]

and Jack... I find it kind of Ironic that you post that rule... when this thread (and so many like them) are full of unattributed cut and paste...

 

[JacktheCatholic]

"To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical." The Gloss of Extravagantes of Pope John XXII, Cum. Inter, title 14, chapter 4, "Ad Callem Sexti Decretalium", Column 140, Paris, 1685. (In an Antwerp edition of the Extravagantes, the words, "Dominum Deum Nostrum Papam" (“Our Lord God the Pope&#8221 can be found in column 153).

2-312. In the "Extravagantes" of Pope John XXII, Roman Canon Law says that it is heresy to deny the power of "Our Lord God the Pope."
REPLY: That remark is attributed, not to Pope John XXII, but to the Canonist Zenzelinus, in his commentary on Title XIV of the "Extravagantes." But an examination of the original manuscript of Zenzelinus, preserved in the Vatican Library, failed to reveal the words attributed to him; and it has been definitely proved that the reference to God is an interpolation in later copies of his commentary.

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/num4.htm

 

[JacktheCatholic]

and Jack... I find it kind of Ironic that you post that rule... when this thread (and so many like them) are full of unattributed cut and paste...

If you were seing the reports you would not find it ironic.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Np...........

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I and other non-RCs would be glad to help out...

LOL

I know you would... wish I could too.