Liberal Christianity Will Destroy the United States and then the World

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kiwimac

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Is the Bible God's written Word? Did God write it or did human beings?

Is the Bible absolute truth? Only God is absolute truth. The Bible is not God.

Is murder via abortion a sin? Abortion is not murder.

Is God ordained marriage between one man and one woman? Not according to the Bible.

Is it sexually immoral to have sex outside of God ordained marriage? See above

Is it okay for unmarried couples to live together? Yes

Is Jesus Christ the only way to God? Jesus was more concerned with human relationships, with people marginalised by both Rome and Jerusalem, by the need for shalom than he was with who followed him.

Will everyone be saved or will some go to hell? I believe that, in the end, God will redeem all people. Just HOW GOd chooses to do that is up to Him.
 
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catlover

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Can those who identify as liberal Christians answer the following, YES or NO?


Is the Bible God's written Word?
Is the Bible absolute truth?
Is murder via abortion a sin?
Is God ordained marriage between one man and one woman?
Is it sexually immoral to have sex outside of God ordained marriage?
Is it okay for unmarried couples to live together?
Is Jesus Christ the only way to God?
Will everyone be saved or will some go to hell?

I don't feel like answering your conservative dogma-thankfully that is not the litmus test for true Christianity.
 
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Zaac

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Yes - but it's been badly translated over the years, and people have this nasty tendency of overlaying their cultural preconceptions and interpretations on it, with no knowledge of the historical context.

No - the Bible doesn't really make an argument, it's more of a how to guide to being a good person. I think any text which teaches or encourages people to care for each other is from God.

No - As fetuses are not human beings, so are acorns not trees. While abortion is the destruction of potential human life, and is regrettable in my eyes (when not necessary to preserve the mother's life), it is not murder.

Ambiguous - there was no marriage between the sexes in bible times, and marriage was done for status, and reproduction, not love. When the talk of love in the OT, it's closer to our approximation of loyalty. Marriage as we know it is fundamentally different than biblical marriage.

Ambiguous - in bible times men were free to engage in sex with any woman they choose, provided she was not married to another man. Women were not. Men were free to have sex with concubines, and their wives handmaidens. Women had no such freedom. If a man and woman had sex, they considered married.

Ambiguous - If a couple is living together, and has had sex, they are married in God's eyes - if we're still taking our cue from the bible.

Ambiguous - Jesus didn't ever place emphasis on prophesing to be a follower of his, he focused on FOLLOWING. I think this indicates that doing is more important than saying.

Some will go to hell IMO. Some people are just downright mean by their own choice, and enjoy inflicting harm on others. However, I don't think all Christians are saved, and I don't think all non-Christians are going to hell.

Am I too liberal for God? Or too educated?

They are STILL Yes or No questions.
 
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Zaac

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Is the Bible God's written Word? - Yes.
Is the Bible absolute truth? - Nope. Only God is absolute Truth.
Is murder via abortion a sin? - You could make an argument here one way or another. The ethics of the argument is much deeper than most Christians I've met know.
Is God ordained marriage between one man and one woman? - I think so, yes.
Is it sexually immoral to have sex outside of God ordained marriage? - I think so, yes.
Is it okay for unmarried couples to live together? - As long as they aren't having sex.
Is Jesus Christ the only way to God? - Absolutely, yes.
Will everyone be saved or will some go to hell? - I currently have difficulty understanding that some will go to hell; at least, hell as traditionally understood.

They are STILL Yes or No questions.
 
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Zaac

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I don't feel like answering your conservative dogma-thankfully that is not the litmus test for true Christianity.

Did you see anywhere that I said it was a litmus test for true Christianity? Not being able to answer the questions is the equivalent of not answering Yes or No.
 
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BeforeTheFoundation

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Zaac said:
They are STILL Yes or No questions...

They are STILL Yes or No questions...

Did you see anywhere that I said it was a litmus test for true Christianity? Not being able to answer the questions is the equivalent of not answering Yes or No...

Sorry dudette. But these are clear cut.:)

Yes or No

Dude not giving people the chance to explain their answers is entrapment. You ask highly flammable questions and you refuse to let people explain why they answer in the way that they do. Well, I for one will not fall for that. I am not answering them at all.
 
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Zaac

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Dude not giving people the chance to explain their answers is entrapment. You ask highly flammable questions and you refuse to let people explain why they answer in the way that they do. Well, I for one will not fall for that. I am not answering them at all.

You're thinking too hard. They are Yes or No questions. I didn't ask for explanations and explanations are not needed. If you don't want to answer, don't. Just reinforces the premise of the thread.
 
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Tissue

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In other words, matters of this magnitude deserve a polarized response, as there is no middleground worth discussing.

This sounds like a premise stemming from a fundamentalist understanding of the matter. It's actually for this exact reason that people are not willing to participate in the discussion.
 
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Zaac

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In other words, matters of this magnitude deserve a polarized response, as there is no middleground worth discussing.

This sounds like a premise stemming from a fundamentalist understanding of the matter. It's actually for this exact reason that people are not willing to participate in the discussion.

In other words, they are Yes or No answers with no need for liberal in betweens, ifs, or buts.

But the more you talk , the more you make the point of the OP.
 
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Tissue

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Then you presuppose your premise in asking the questions, marking this as a tainted discussion from the get-go.

Some issues are more complex than a simple "yes or no". This is the failing of fundamentalist Christianity.

If you really want to provoke a good, deep conversation on the matter, then allow for middleground answers, and address them. If you want to prove yourself right, forcing others to fit your pattern of truth which they have already rejected won't get you anywhere (which is what we're seeing here).
 
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Zaac

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Then you presuppose your premise in asking the questions, marking this as a tainted discussion from the get-go.

Some issues are more complex than a simple "yes or no". This is the failing of fundamentalist Christianity.

If you really want to provoke a good, deep conversation on the matter, then allow for middleground answers, and address them. If you want to prove yourself right, forcing others to fit your pattern of truth which they have already rejected won't get you anywhere (which is what we're seeing here).

That doesn't read like a Yes or No. But your propensity to talk is reinforcing the purpose of the OP. ^_^
 
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BeforeTheFoundation

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You're thinking too hard. They are Yes or No questions. I didn't ask for explanations and explanations are not needed. If you don't want to answer, don't.

No, after all, we wouldn't want to think about our faith now would we? We wouldn't want to use our God-given intellect in order to attempt to come to Truth.

Zaac said:
Just reinforces the premise of the thread.

Have fun with your stereotypes.

Tissue said:
This sounds like a premise stemming from a fundamentalist understanding of the matter. It's actually for this exact reason that people are not willing to participate in the discussion.

Exactly. I will not answer the questions because I know that Zaac will not give me the chance to explain my answers (many of which he would probably like). But without explanation, an answer is useless. It is in the explanation that Truth is to be found.

Zaac said:
In other words, they are Yes or No answers with no need for liberal in betweens, ifs, or buts.

It isn't just the liberals who have in between answers. Is it ok to kill people? Most conservatives (and many liberals for that matter) would answer... "sometimes...?" The answer is not a yes or no, the answer is "well, usually no, but occasionally yes, in matters of war or defense etc." I am not saying that this is the wrong answer, but it is an in between answer.

But the more you talk , the more you make the point of the OP.

No, the more we talk, the closer we come to Truth. That is how Truth works, it doesn't just fall out of nowhere. Take the Bible for instance, it is a rather long collection of books trying to show what Truth is. It takes a while. Lot's of words.

Tissue said:
Then you presuppose your premise in asking the questions, marking this as a tainted discussion from the get-go.

Precisely. Zaac, the only reason that you think this is proving your point is because you aren't allowing for a differing of opinions. Of course you think that you are right, and you should think that. But when you start saying taht everyone else is wrong without actually proving that they are but instead saying we are wrong simply because you disagree with us then the entire system of a forum like this one breaks down.

That doesn't read like a Yes or No.

His answer wasn't supposed to read like a Yes or No answer. That is the point.

Tissue said:
My propensity to encourage conversation so that we can all make baby steps toward the Truth reinforces the OP's proposition that liberal Christianity will destroy the world?

Baby steps are the key. Discovering Truth is a journey, one that takes a long time. I believe that I am right in my ways of thinking but I perfectly realize that someday I may realize that I am wrong. My fiance summed it up perfectly by saying something to the effect of... Hold your beliefs firmly but loosely. Know the arguments for and against them and believe your side is right and argue for that fact. But, if you are proven wrong, then admit it and change your position.

However, that entire idea is based off of the free exchange of ideas and knowlege. Zaac, perhaps you know more than I do. Perhaps my entire belief system is wrong, but the only way for us all to come closer to the Truth is by discussing our beliefs. Discussing them, not just summerizing them up in a 'yes' or a 'no'.
 
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Zaac

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No, after all, we wouldn't want to think about our faith now would we? We wouldn't want to use our God-given intellect in order to attempt to come to Truth.



Have fun with your stereotypes.



Exactly. I will not answer the questions because I know that Zaac will not give me the chance to explain my answers (many of which he would probably like). But without explanation, an answer is useless. It is in the explanation that Truth is to be found.



It isn't just the liberals who have in between answers. Is it ok to kill people? Most conservatives (and many liberals for that matter) would answer... "sometimes...?" The answer is not a yes or no, the answer is "well, usually no, but occasionally yes, in matters of war or defense etc." I am not saying that this is the wrong answer, but it is an in between answer.



No, the more we talk, the closer we come to Truth. That is how Truth works, it doesn't just fall out of nowhere. Take the Bible for instance, it is a rather long collection of books trying to show what Truth is. It takes a while. Lot's of words.



Precisely. Zaac, the only reason that you think this is proving your point is because you aren't allowing for a differing of opinions. Of course you think that you are right, and you should think that. But when you start saying taht everyone else is wrong without actually proving that they are but instead saying we are wrong simply because you disagree with us then the entire system of a forum like this one breaks down.



His answer wasn't supposed to read like a Yes or No answer. That is the point.



Baby steps are the key. Discovering Truth is a journey, one that takes a long time. I believe that I am right in my ways of thinking but I perfectly realize that someday I may realize that I am wrong. My fiance summed it up perfectly by saying something to the effect of... Hold your beliefs firmly but loosely. Know the arguments for and against them and believe your side is right and argue for that fact. But, if you are proven wrong, then admit it and change your position.

However, that entire idea is based off of the free exchange of ideas and knowlege. Zaac, perhaps you know more than I do. Perhaps my entire belief system is wrong, but the only way for us all to come closer to the Truth is by discussing our beliefs. Discussing them, not just summerizing them up in a 'yes' or a 'no'.


They STILL require a Yes or No.
 
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