How could any human being be an affront to an almighty Creator?
I am deeply offended.
Seriously -- stick with the mechon-mamre which doesn't put in any of the jumbled machinations you have in your quotes. It's more than sufficient, with the Hebrew alongside, and enjoyable to read to boot.This is direct from the Hebrew and how I prefer to translate the Sacred Scriptures. How do you translate them?
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1028.htm
http://www.scripture4all.org/
Isaiah 28:15 Because ye-say: `We-cut a-Covenant with Death, And-with Sh@'owl we-made a seer,
18 And-shall-be-atoned/03722 kaphar, Covenant-of-you with Death, and-seer with Sh@'owl,.
טו כִּי אֲמַרְתֶּם, כָּרַתְנוּ בְרִית אֶת-מָוֶת, וְעִם-שְׁאוֹל, עָשִׂינוּ חֹזֶה; שיט (שׁוֹט שׁוֹטֵף כִּי-עבר (יַעֲבֹר לֹא יְבוֹאֵנוּ, כִּי שַׂמְנוּ כָזָב מַחְסֵנוּ וּבַשֶּׁקֶר
נִסְתָּרְנוּ. {פ}
Stick with the mamre -- it is more than sufficient with the Hebrew included:This is direct from the Hebrew and how I prefer to translate the Sacred Scriptures. How do you translate them?
Isaiah 28:15 Because ye-say: `We-cut a-Covenant with Death, And-with Sh@'owl we-made a seer,
18 And-shall-be-atoned/03722 kaphar, Covenant-of-you with Death, and-seer with Sh@'owl,.
טו כִּי אֲמַרְתֶּם, כָּרַתְנוּ בְרִית אֶת-מָוֶת, וְעִם-שְׁאוֹל, עָשִׂינוּ חֹזֶה; שיט (שׁוֹט שׁוֹטֵף כִּי-עבר (יַעֲבֹר לֹא יְבוֹאֵנוּ, כִּי שַׂמְנוּ כָזָב מַחְסֵנוּ וּבַשֶּׁקֶר
נִסְתָּרְנוּ. {פ}
Greetings and thanks for the response and I agree.Stick with the mamre -- it is more than sufficient with the Hebrew included:
{פ} 15 Because ye have said: 'We have made a covenant with death, and with the nether-world are we at agreement; when the scouring scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us; for we have made lies our refuge, and in falsehood have we hid ourselves'; {P}
and a bonus -- its pleasant to read.
The verse should be understood:This is direct from the Hebrew and how I prefer to translate the Sacred Scriptures. How do you translate them?
Isaiah 28:15 Because ye-say: `We-cut a-Covenant with Death, And-with Sh@'owl we-made a seer,
18 And-shall-be-atoned/03722 kaphar, Covenant-of-you with Death, and-seer with Sh@'owl,.
טו כִּי אֲמַרְתֶּם, כָּרַתְנוּ בְרִית אֶת-מָוֶת, וְעִם-שְׁאוֹל, עָשִׂינוּ חֹזֶה; שיט (שׁוֹט שׁוֹטֵף כִּי-עבר (יַעֲבֹר לֹא יְבוֹאֵנוּ, כִּי שַׂמְנוּ כָזָב מַחְסֵנוּ וּבַשֶּׁקֶר
נִסְתָּרְנוּ. {פ}
Greetings and thanks for the response and I agree.
The interlinear [link below] does use the Mamre and one reason I like to read from it as it also parses the Hebrew words [and the Greek also]. [It uses "the-damsel" instead of "virgin" in Isaiah 7 for example]
The hebrew word used in Isaiah 28:15 is "karath" as is also used in Jeremiah 31. What is the difference between "cut" and "make", as you used in your translation? Just curious. Shalom and thanks.
Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, days, ones-coming a declaration of YHWH, and-I-Cut/03772 karath with the house of Yisra'el and with the house of Y@huwdah a Covenant/01285 b@riyth, New [Hebrew 8:8]
Hebrews 8:8 "For faulting to-them, He is saying:, `Behold, days are coming, is saying Lord.
And shall-be-together-finishing/sun-telesw <4931> (5692) upon the house of Israel, and upon the house of Judah a Covenant, New" [Jeremiah 31:31]
3772 karath kaw-rath' a primitive root; to cut (off, down or asunder); by implication, to destroy or consume; specifically, to covenant (i.e. make an alliance or bargain, originally by cutting flesh and passing between the pieces):--be chewed, be con-(feder-)ate, covenant,
The verse should be understood:
"For we you have said: We have made a covenant with death, and with the grave have we made a contract...."
The word חוזה means "contract" or "agreement". How do we make a "seer" (which is also the word חוזה with the grave (שאול? Additionally, כרת is the regular verb that is used when "making a covenant". We do not say "cut a covenant" in English, though it's not so strange when you're used to hearing Hebrew. It simply doesn't have meaning in English. Hebrew, however, uses כרת all the time in relation to covenant (ברית.
Where did you study Hebrew, by the way?
Yours,
Jason
(Rehovot, Israel)
Did you know that for the purposes of the messianic forum, apparently now the non-Jewish Messianic Gentiles forum members are being considered Messianic Jews here? I received a PM this morning stating that for the purposes of the MJ forum it is not necessary for a Gentile to actually go through the conversion process in order to call themselves a Jew. A non-Jewish Gentile may consider, proclaim, insist he is a Jew by nothing but "cuz I said so" in the Messianic forum here, apparently.
How do you feel about this? I think this is replacement theology at its most deceptive.
Evidently not at a Hebrew UniversityWhere did you study Hebrew, by the way?
Yours,
Jason
(Rehovot, Israel)
I believe that the more correct answer would be: "I haven't studied Hebrew, I just post as though I knew what I was talking about without really having any experience with reading the Tanakh as it was originally written." Isn't that what you mean when you ridicule Jewish institutions of higher learning?Evidently not at a Hebrew University
I read it no differently than Christians and Jews read it.I believe that the more correct answer would be: "I haven't studied Hebrew, I just post as though I knew what I was talking about without really having any experience with reading the Tanakh as it was originally written." Isn't that what you mean when you ridicule Jewish institutions of higher learning?
Jason
Except that you take חוזה to mean "seer" where it obviously means "contract" in parallel to "covenant" (ברית. You seem to translate every other verb with the English present continuous (completely unnatural to the language), and you regularly assign strange meanings to standard words from the biblical Hebrew lexical stock. I would say that you read it far differently from both Christians and Jews when you propose the things that I have read in this thread.I read it no differently than Christians and Jews read it.
I made no such comparisons. Many Christians across the world can read and understand Hebrew. However, I would like you to admit that you're simply not one of them. You are doing naught but abusing the Scriptures.Are you trying to imply only Jews can read and understand the OT/OC and not non-Jews? Not sure what you are implying.
If they consistently reflect the kind of scholarship that I have seen in this thread, I doubt you have any readers.Btw, I have my own translations of a lot of the OT/OC and others can use however they feel is the correct one.
I'm not talking about biblical harmonization. I'm talking about the abuse and degradation of language.I have my way of harmonizing the Bible, others have their way. Mine may not be correct but I am happy with it non the less.
"Is saying"? "I am eating"? In English, this means that the Adam is still speaking now and that he was still eating when he was confronted by God. Strange idea, if you ask me.Genesis 3:12 And the 'adam is saying: "the woman whom Thou gave with me, she gave to me from the tree and I am eating".
13 And YHWH 'Elohiym is saying to-woman "what this thou do"? And the woman is saying: "the nachash, he deceived/beguiled/nasha me and I am eating".
Then why is that hebrew word also uses as "seer" in 2 Samuel 24:11. Does this mean Gad is a "contractor"? Also, if YHWH wanted to say "make" instead of "cut" why didn't He use the hebrew word for that instead?Except that you take חוזה to mean "seer" where it obviously means "contract" in parallel to "covenant" (ברית. You .
(1) The form חוזה means both "contract" and "seer". They are actually two different words, but they look the same. Are you suggesting that homonyms do not exist in English? What do I mean when I write "pin"? Do I mean something that you put in your hair to hold it back, or do I mean putting someone against a wall or floor and not letting them free? When I write "bow", do I mean to bend at the waist or something that you use to shoot arrows? חוזה (contract) is a homonym with חוזה (seer), but they are not the same WORD. There are many homonyms in Hebrew, just as there are in English — for example, אשפה (ashpah), which can mean either "dunghill" or "quiver" (what you use to carry arrows). How do you know? Context. The context shows us that חוזה means contract when it is used in parallel with ברית.Then why is that hebrew word also uses as "seer" in 2 Samuel 24:11. Does this mean Gad is a "contractor"? Also, if YHWH wanted to say "make" instead of "cut" why didn't He use the hebrew word for that instead?
Red herring.Btw, what are the Jews thoughts on the Christian's view of Jesus coming again to the Jews in the Future? Thanks
But of course. I still say Moses and the Hebrew Israelites were lucky enough to actually be back there with YHWH their Elohiym.Red herring.
Jason
Yet another red herring.But of course. I still say Moses and the Hebrew Israelites were lucky enough to actually be back there with YHWH their Elohiym.
Btw, the greek word "ginomai" is often mistranslated in the Greek New Covenant as it comes from the Hebrew word Hayah. Just thought that was interesting. You are welcome to check on that of course. Bye Bye.
Would you mind acknowledging my post? Otherwise, I assume that you have conceeded that I am correct in stating that you have no formal study of the Hebrew language.
Except that you take חוזה to mean "seer" where it obviously means "contract" in parallel to "covenant" (ברית. You seem to translate every other verb with the English present continuous (completely unnatural to the language), and you regularly assign strange meanings to standard words from the biblical Hebrew lexical stock. I would say that you read it far differently from both Christians and Jews when you propose the things that I have read in this thread.
I made no such comparisons. Many Christians across the world can read and understand Hebrew. However, I would like you to admit that you're simply not one of them. You are doing naught but abusing the Scriptures.
If they consistently reflect the kind of scholarship that I have seen in this thread, I doubt you have any readers.
I'm not talking about biblical harmonization. I'm talking about the abuse and degradation of language.
"Is saying"? "I am eating"? In English, this means that the Adam is still speaking now and that he was still eating when he was confronted by God. Strange idea, if you ask me.
God is still saying to the woman? "What this thou do?" Wonderful English as well.
More translationally nonsensical refuse. Why are you abusing the Scriptures?? This is NOT what it says!
Jason