Homosexuality and Suppression of the Truth

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

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[CriticalMassKitten]

Mrs. Sellner, The Social Worker: Mr. Hillard, do you consider yourself humorous?
Daniel (aka Mrs. Doubtfire): I used to. There was a time, when I found myself funny. But today, you have proven me wrong. Thank you!

... thank you... so much. You have nooo idea how much I love that movie. lol

Anyway, a bit of on-topicness from me. I'm not so sure believing differently makes one gay, so much as being gay may lead someone to believe differently.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

........

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

congratulations zaac, you have earned a place on its ignore list for having zero social skills and even less to say.

 

[RED that's ME]

Why did Jesus dine with sinners? We hashed over the woman who was not stoned to death...but what about Jesus having lunch with the "worst" in society, tax collectors etc?

I see that part of the verse brought up many times at CF & taken out of context, to justify living as the world does. Scripture does say that Jesus ate with tax collector and sinners. What you won't find is scripture saying that Jesus committed any sins while hanging around the sinners and publicans. He also called them to be different.
Jesus did show more compassion towards sinners. He fellowshipped with them to reach them, not to show them the same style of life they were already living. You didn't find Jesus lying, gossiping, maligning, stealing etc....

There's nothing wrong with fellowshipping with sinners but a Christians shouldn't sin while doing it. Jesus called people to live differently not stay in their sins. Christians especially should live holy according to God's word. Those that use the *Jesus ate with sinners* to excuse their behavior should read further in scripture to find out what he expects on the lifestyle of a true Christian.
People shouldn't get mad at Christians trying to be Christ like. It's not that some have a holier than thou attitude, they just trying to live Christ like in their words & actions.

• Mark 2:15 And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him. 16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? 17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Romans 1 is clear on God's thoughts on homosexuality or anything that goes against what he created males and females for. He didn't created anything other than a male and female and says people are the ones to choose to go against his original creation.

 

[catlover]

I see that part of the verse brought up many times at CF & taken out of context, to justify living as the world does. Scripture does say that Jesus ate with tax collector and sinners. What you won't find is scripture saying that Jesus committed any sins while hanging around the sinners and publicans. He also called them to be different.
Jesus did show more compassion towards sinners. He fellowshipped with them to reach them, not to show them the same style of life they were already living. You didn't find Jesus lying, gossiping, maligning, stealing etc....

There's nothing wrong with fellowshipping with sinners but a Christians shouldn't sin while doing it. Jesus called people to live differently not stay in their sins. Christians especially should live holy according to God's word. Those that use the *Jesus ate with sinners* to excuse their behavior should read further in scripture to find out what he expects on the lifestyle of a true Christian.
People shouldn't get mad at Christians trying to be Christ like. It's not that some have a holier than thou attitude, they just trying to live Christ like in their words & actions.

• Mark 2:15 And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him. 16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? 17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Romans 1 is clear on God's thoughts on homosexuality or anything that goes against what he created males and females for. He didn't created anything other than a male and female and says people are the ones to choose to go against his original creation.

I don't think I took anything out of context when my main point is, we are to have compassion for people.

Not blame groups of people who are discriminated against in today's society, for diseases and social ills.

 

[invisible trousers]

And yuor pastor knows this how?

Perhaps he studied under Ted Haggard.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

An interesting thought here: my pastor told me about a study that shows a gay-sex experience changes a person's thought processes. I don't know the full extent of it though.

amazing the way these pastors are privy to all these amazing studies that never get reported in reputable scientific or medical journals!

 

[Zaac]

congratulations zaac, you have earned a place on its ignore list for having zero social skills and even less to say.

Wow. Are you trying to hurt my feelings?

Moriah, rest assured that I will be just fine if there is no discourse between us. You be blessed.

 

[savedandhappy1]

Perhaps he studied under Ted Haggard.

So you are sitting the example about how we should be showing the love by this post hun?

Guess what ones says should be happening isn't always what we do, which must be why the scriptures warn that if we judge someone we shouldn't be judging if we are doing the same thing they are doing.

Or is it ok to slam someone if they say they have been cured by the Lord instead of saying I am homosexual and God made me that way? I would want to see the scriptures for that thought, please.

P.S. You know I feel really moved to spend the day in prayer for those who were affected by the 68 tornadoes last night. Have a Good Day All.

 

[BigBadWlf]

amazing the way these pastors are privy to all these amazing studies that never get reported in reputable scientific or medical journals!

Reposted for truth

 

[Chaplain David]

Reposted for truth

Which is probably a good reason for proper and adequate attribution when supporting one's case. Most pastors I know are too busy to be involved with studies although most also do a huge amount of reading.

 

[MercyBurst]

amazing the way these pastors are privy to all these amazing studies that never get reported in reputable scientific or medical journals!

I think the dearth of journal information is quite disappointing myself. None of it is objective, whether it's gays doing the study, or somebody on the conservative side posting fraudulent results. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle, and nobody wants to catch hell from both sides of the argument.

Perhaps morality shouldn't be considered a science -- just a thought anyway.

 

[Chaplain David]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadWlf
Reposted for truth

Hey BigBadWolf, how come I get this message when I try to view your profile:



Why don't you register honestly like everybody else?

It's right here MB. http://christianforums.com/~bigbadwlf

If I just said that I think I would apologize to the guy.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadWlf
Reposted for truth

Hey BigBadWolf, how come I get this message when I try to view your profile:



Why don't you register honestly like everybody else?

I see it just fine. http://christianforums.com/~bigbadwlf

 

[Polycarp1]

I think the dearth of journal information is quite disappointing myself. None of it is objective, whether it's gays doing the study, or somebody on the conservative side posting fraudulent results. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle, and nobody wants to catch hell from both sides of the argument.

That, sir, is something I can agree with unqualifiedly. Having read more than a little on the subject on both sides of the fence, there is some lack of integrity in what's said. To the gays' credit, in general the studies and statistics posted in support of their position seem to be valid and objective -- with some clear exceptions. But there's a tendency, understandable but less than honest, to refuse to admit any negatives. If 10% of 20% of gays are club-going promiscuous hedonists, it's no insult to the other 80% or 90% who are not to admit that that's the case. It might even help save them, not merely in the religious sense but in the sense of dealing with the emotional and health threats they subject themselves to. That that group is (if the CDC study is accurate) the fastest-growing demographic for new AIDS cases is something liberal and conservative Christians and socially conscious gay people should be working together to prevent.

On the other hand, whenever a homosexuality-is-sinful website trots out again those old and repeatedly debunked studies circulated by Dobson's colleague Paul Cameron of Family Research Council, it does no favors either to the people they claim to be reaching out to, the God who is Truth and who is not served by lies, nor even their own credibility.

Perhaps morality shouldn't be considered a science -- just a thought anyway.

Actually, we have some absolutes laid down by God. The trouble is, they're not the ones that many conservatives mean by "moral absolutes."

"The first and greatest commandment is this: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy mind and with all thy soul and with all thy strength. And the second is like unto it: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

"This do, and you shall live."

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them; for this is the Law and the Prophets."

I don't think Jesus could have made it any clearer that those are the absolutes, the things which outrank all other commands, the conditions under which you are to do everything else.

Honestly, anyone knowing that someone is motivated by a heart full of love to warn others away from what they see as the short road to Hell would find it hard to be offended by someone acting out of that kind of love. The problem is that those speaking out against "the sinfulness of homosexuality" (which as I've noted leaves things undefined) don't stop with loving warnings but carry their campaign to a point where any number of gay people have complained about feeling bludgeoned by Scripture, sneered at by people who seem to feel holiier-than-thou, and you know how many campaigns to make things like gay sex and gay marriage illegal have been carried on in Christ's name.

That too is wrong. Using the Golden Rule, do a parallel. Many of those outspoken against homosexuality are Baptists. And Baptists are congregational in polity, with the local church calling their pastor, who may or may not have seminary training or commissioning by other clergy. Now, for the sake of argument, let's suppose that someone has serious theological objections to someone just called by a local church as a preacher without any commissioning solemnizing marriages -- that a "marriage" before a Baptist pastor may be legal under state statutes, but is no real marriage in God's eyes. You'd have no problem with their holding that view, even though you think it erroneous, right? Their privilege to believe whatever nonsense they choose. But if they began buttonholing and browbeating you about living in sin in a false "marriage," it would get old very quickly. And if they began an organized campaign to ban marriages in the Baptist churches, that would anger you very quickly. check?

What does the Golden Rule say, again? What does God really want done?

 

[invisible trousers]

So you are sitting the example about how we should be showing the love by this post hun?

Guess what ones says should be happening isn't always what we do, which must be why the scriptures warn that if we judge someone we shouldn't be judging if we are doing the same thing they are doing.

Or is it ok to slam someone if they say they have been cured by the Lord instead of saying I am homosexual and God made me that way? I would want to see the scriptures for that thought, please.

What? I'm not sure how any of this has to do with the thread topic. It's probably not ok to slam someone (what does this have to do with anything?), but judging by the success of ex-gay ministries it's safe to assume the person is still gay.

Speaking of Haggard, I'm definitely lolling over here. It appears he's still stuck in homosexual bondage

http://www.coloradoconfidential.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=3422

Ted Haggard Quits New Life 'Restoration Team'
by: Cara DeGette
Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 09:10 PM MST

Technically, it only took three weeks of intensive "restoration" a full year ago to make Ted Haggard a "complete heterosexual." But on Tuesday night, the new pastor of the Colorado Springs megachurch that Haggard founded has announced that Haggard is quitting the team -- and that "the process of restoring Ted Haggard is incomplete."

That article also has the letter sent out by the church's new(ish) pastor.

 

[Ohioprof]

I think the dearth of journal information is quite disappointing myself. None of it is objective, whether it's gays doing the study, or somebody on the conservative side posting fraudulent results. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle, and nobody wants to catch hell from both sides of the argument.

Perhaps morality shouldn't be considered a science -- just a thought anyway.

The people conducting the real studies are scientists. Some of them are probably gay, and most of them are not, as most people are not gay. It's not gay people doing the studies. It's scientists doing the studies.

 

[Ohioprof]

I see that part of the verse brought up many times at CF & taken out of context, to justify living as the world does. Scripture does say that Jesus ate with tax collector and sinners. What you won't find is scripture saying that Jesus committed any sins while hanging around the sinners and publicans. He also called them to be different.
Jesus did show more compassion towards sinners. He fellowshipped with them to reach them, not to show them the same style of life they were already living. You didn't find Jesus lying, gossiping, maligning, stealing etc....

There's nothing wrong with fellowshipping with sinners but a Christians shouldn't sin while doing it. Jesus called people to live differently not stay in their sins. Christians especially should live holy according to God's word. Those that use the *Jesus ate with sinners* to excuse their behavior should read further in scripture to find out what he expects on the lifestyle of a true Christian.
People shouldn't get mad at Christians trying to be Christ like. It's not that some have a holier than thou attitude, they just trying to live Christ like in their words & actions.

• Mark 2:15 And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him. 16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? 17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Romans 1 is clear on God's thoughts on homosexuality or anything that goes against what he created males and females for. He didn't created anything other than a male and female and says people are the ones to choose to go against his original creation.

To imagine that we are above other people, better than other people, just because we are Christians is the height of arrogance, in my view. The notion that we are the saved who are fellowshipping with sinners is an arrogant fallacy, I think. We are no less sinners than anyone else, and to think we are better than other people, or more holy, or more spirit-filled, is just our egos talking back to us. It's a huge mistake.

Romans does not make clear God's views on anything. Paul's letters show us what Paul thought, not what God thought. Paul was not God, and on some subjects he was mistaken.

 

[savedandhappy1]

Just noticed that a thread was started about this so, moving this to that thread.