Does Your Church Hang Pictures Portraying Jesus

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MoNiCa4316

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Because as I showed on the clement post the catechism not only okays these practices but it in fact encourages. In essemnce they create stumbling blocks for her members...Christ true church would never do that.

Statue of Our Lady of Lourdes in the grotto, the weeping one...You saying that people don't want to touch it to be healed...How about wearing a miraculous medal that protects you....Sheesh the lists go on and on...

There are also Orthodox icons through which people have been healed. Look God uses matter...there's no point being more spiritual than Him. If He wants to use an icon or a statue to heal, why not? It's not the statue that's healing people, it's God! Remember He used clay to heal the blind man... He knows this helps people have more faith, that's why He does it like this.

God uses water, bread and wine, icons, etc...we are not Gnostics who believe that matter is evil.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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We who are born of God are all icons of Christ. When we greet one another with a holy kiss or venerate an icon, we are expressing God's love towards each other. This is the Gospel.

Love,
Christina
Hi. The Gospel I read doesn't show venerating icons.

1 corin 1:6 I am marveling that thus swiftly ye are being changed/translated from the calling of ye into a different Good-Message.
7 which is not another if no any are the ones disturbing ye and willing to pervert the Good-Message of the Christ.
 
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simonthezealot

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Hi. The Gospel I read doesn't show venerating icons.

1 corin 1:6 I am marveling that thus swiftly ye are being changed/translated from the calling of ye into a different Good-Message.
7 which is not another if no any are the ones disturbing ye and willing to pervert the Good-Message of the Christ.
And in fact venerating icons and such cuts off from its sight the greater parts of creation and focuses on mans created items.
 
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simonthezealot

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Image of Christ . . .
christ_icon.jpg
What do you think Paul meant here..
2 cor 5:
16So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
 
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simonthezealot

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Hi. The Gospel I read doesn't show venerating icons.

1 corin 1:6 I am marveling that thus swiftly ye are being changed/translated from the calling of ye into a different Good-Message.
7 which is not another if no any are the ones disturbing ye and willing to pervert the Good-Message of the Christ.
AMEN!
 
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Komnenos

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What do you think Paul meant here..
2 cor 5:
16So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
God became man, so we can depict him as a man. Praying to Christ, is not viewing him from a worldly view. However, Christ DID walk on this earth, and became man. What does that passage have to do with the veneration of Icons?
 
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Komnenos

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Hi. The Gospel I read doesn't show venerating icons.

1 corin 1:6 I am marveling that thus swiftly ye are being changed/translated from the calling of ye into a different Good-Message.
7 which is not another if no any are the ones disturbing ye and willing to pervert the Good-Message of the Christ.
No, but showing Gods love for one another is.
 
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simonthezealot

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God became man, so we can depict him as a man. Praying to Christ, is not viewing him from a worldly view. However, Christ DID walk on this earth, and became man. What does that passage have to do with the veneration of Icons?
Everything...I can only share scripture with you I can NOT help you understand it.
 
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Komnenos

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Everything...I can only share scripture with you I can NOT help you understand it.
On Holy Images Saint John of Damascus,


Now, as we are talking of images and worship, let us analyse the exact meaning of each. An image is a likeness of the original with a certain difference, for it is not an exact reproduction of the original. Thus, the Son is the living, substantial, unchangeable Image of the invisible God, bearing in Himself the whole Father, being in all things equal to Him, differing only in being begotten by the Father, who is the Begetter; the Son is begotten. The Father does not proceed from the Son, but the Son from the Father. It is through the Son, though not after Him, that He is what He is, the Father who generates. In God, too, there are representations and images of His future acts,-that is to say, His counsel from all eternity, which is ever unchangeable. That which is divine is immutable; there is no change in Him, nor shadow of change. Blessed Denis, [note: the Pseudo-Dionysius] who has made divine things in God's presence his study, says that these representations and images arc marked out beforehand. In His counsels, God has noted and settled all that He would do, the unchanging future events before tbey came to pass. In the same way, a man who wished to build a house would first make and think out a plan. Again, visible things are images of invisible and intangible things, on which they throw a faint light. Holy Scripture clothes in figure God and the angels, and the same holy man (Blessed Denis) explains why. When sensible things sufficiently render what is beyond sense, and give a form to what is intangible, a medium would be reckoned imperfect according to our standard, if it did not fully represent material vision, or if it required effort of mind. If, therefore, Holy Scripture, providing for our need, ever putting before us what is intangible, clothes it in flesh, does it not make an image of what is thus invested with our nature, and brought to the level of our desires, yet invisible? A certain conception through the senses thus takes place in the brain, which was not there before, and is transmitted to the judicial faculty, and added to the mental store. Gregory, who is so eloquent about God, says that the mind, which is set upon getting beyond corporeal things, , is incapable of doing it. For the invisible things of God since the creation of the world are made visible through images. We see images in creation which remind us faintly of God, as when, for instance, we speak of the holy and adorable Trinity, imaged by the sun, or light, or burning rays, or by a running fountain, or a full river, or by the mind, speech, or the spirit within us, or by a rose tree, or a sprouting flower, or a sweet fragrance. Again, an image is expressive of something in the future, mystically shadowing forth what is to happen. For instance, the ark represents the image of Our Lady, Mother of God, so does the staff and the earthen jar. The serpent brings before us Him who vanquished on the Cross the bite of the original serpent; the sea, -water, and the cloud the grace of baptism.
 
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Komnenos

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"Of old, God the incorporeal and uncircumscribed was never depicted. Now, however, when God is seen clothed in flesh, and conversing with men, I make an image of the God whom I see. I do not worship matter, I worship the God of matter, who became matter for my sake, and deigned to inhabit matter, who worked out my salvation through matter. I will not cease from honouring that matter which works my salvation. I venerate it, though not as God. How could God be born out of lifeless things? And if God's body is God by union, it is immutable. The nature of God remains the same as before, the flesh created in time is quickened by, a logical and reasoning soul."
 
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Komnenos

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"But besides this who can make an imitation of the invisible, incorporeal, uncircumscribed, formless God? Therefore to give form to the Deity is the height of folly and impiety. And hence it is that in the Old Testament the use of images was not uncommon. But after God in His bowels of pity became in truth man for our salvation, not as He was seen by Abraham in the semblance of a man, nor as He was seen by the prophets, but in being truly man, and after He lived upon the earth and dwelt among men, worked miracles, suffered, was crucified, rose again and was taken back to Heaven, since all these things actually took place and were seen by men, they were written for the remembrance and instruction of us who were not alive at that time in order that though we saw not, we may still, hearing and believing, obtain the blessing of the Lord. But seeing that not every one has a knowledge of letters nor time for reading, the Fathers gave their sanction to depicting these events on images as being acts of great heroism, in order that they should form a concise memorial of them. Often, doubtless, when we have not the Lord's passion in mind and see the image of Christ's crucifixion, His saving passion is brought back to remembrance, and we fall down and worship not the material but that which is imaged: just as we do not worship the material of which the Gospels are made, nor the material of the Cross, but that which these typify. For wherein does the cross, that typifies the Lord, differ from a cross that does not do so? it is just the same also in the case of the Mother of the Lord. For the honour which we give to her is referred to Him Who was made of her incarnate. And similarly also the brave acts of holy men stir us up to be brave and to emulate and imitate their valor and to glorify God. For as we said, the honour that is given to the best of fellow-servants is a proof of good-will towards our common Lady, and the honour rendered to the image passes over to the prototype. But this is an unwritten tradition, just as is also the worshipping towards the East and the worship of the Cross, and very many other similar things."
 
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Nickolai

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When did HE ever use an icon?

If he ever went to the synagogue, then it is possible he DID use Icons, as they often had Icons of OT events. They weren't venerated in the way we do because that just wasn't something they did, but that doesn't make it wrong.

In what way are Icons Idols? We don't worship them. We venerate the person portrayed. Why can't you seem to understand this? Why do you need a clear quote from scripture to do it? Do you need one to tell you to go to the bathroom too? If the Icon-venerating Church gave you the Scripture you say we don't believe, obviously it's you that misunderstands it, not us.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The serpent brings before us Him who vanquished on the Cross the bite of the original serpent; the sea, -water, and the cloud the grace of baptism.
:) I have that all in one Picture. It offends the Jews and Muslims though LOL.

[Young LT] Col 2:13 And you--being dead in the trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh--He made alive together with him, having forgiven you all the trespasses, 14 having blotted out the handwriting in the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the Cross; 15 having stripped the Principalities and the Authorities, he made a shew of Them openly--having triumphed over Them in it. 16 Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body [is] of the Christ;

(Young) Psalms 22:16 And to the dust of death thou appointest me, For surrounded me have dogs, A company of evil doers have compassed me, lions/0738 'ariy digged/03738 karah at my hands and my feet.

showletter.jpg


Matt 23:32 and ye--ye fill up the measure of your fathers. 33 `Serpents! brood of vipers! how may ye escape from the judgment of the Gehenna?
Matthew 24:1 And having gone forth, Yeshua departed from the Temple, and his disciples came near to show him the buildings of the temple,
Ezekiel 39:12 "For seven months the house of Yisra'el will be burying Them, in order to CLEANSE/PURIFY the land. 13 "Indeed all the people of the land will be burying, and they will gain renown for it on the day that I am glorified," says 'Adonay Y@hovih .
 
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