How is Militant Islam as large a threat as Hitler or stalin.

perplexed

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With regards to my Pakistani scenario, I said it was a possibility, not a definate. I'm more than happy to hear why you think it could never happen.

I won't rule out it is a possibility but you talked about a pakistani al queda supporter with a nuke, If there was such a person he would vapourize the US fleet in the gulf. You also talked about someone taking a bribe and living a cushy lifestyle... don't you think he would be worried about going to cuba?
 
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TheNewWorldMan

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Do you mean recently, or are you going all the way back to the Ottoman Empire?

You could go back to the Ottoman Empire, but let's face it--that was centuries ago, and back then pretty much every organized religion--including Christianity--had dirty hands.

No, the salient issue here is the fact that, when murder and mayhem are committed in the name of a religion here in the 21st century, nine times out of ten, the deed is done by Islam, even though Muslims are less than a fifth of the world's population. I'm not saying every Muslim is a terrorist, or even most, but overall any objective analysis of the facts must conclude that religion as it exists today has a screw loose.
 
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marshlewis

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Their entire religion was founded by a pedophile and they refuse to acknowledge that fact because it's "offensive."

What else do we need to know?
Im so glad we have Americans around to explain the meanings and origins of everyone else's history and culture. How else could we know.
 
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Bobfr

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You could go back to the Ottoman Empire, but let's face it--that was centuries ago, and back then pretty much every organized religion--including Christianity--had dirty hands.
The end of Ottoman Empire is less than one century. And I don't think the policy of Ottoman Empire have anything to do with Islam as a religion or with Islamofascism
 
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TheNewWorldMan

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Im so glad we have Americans around to explain the meanings and origins of everyone else's history and culture. How else could we know.

Actually we don't have to explain it...the rape of Aisha by Mohammed is right there in the Hadiths (Muslim holy texts). Look it up. The text even mentions Aisha was playing with a doll when Mohammed "consummated the marriage."
 
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TheReasoner

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Im so glad we have Americans around to explain the meanings and origins of everyone else's history and culture. How else could we know.
Well, he did consummate a marriage to a nine year old...
 
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celticfan83

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Their entire religion was founded by a pedophile and they refuse to acknowledge that fact because it's "offensive."

What else do we need to know?
define pedophile in the context of 610 A.D. if you want to make that claim
 
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TheNewWorldMan

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define pedophile in the context of 610 A.D. if you want to make that claim

Nine years old is WAY before puberty even today, and puberty comes earlier by a couple years than it did in preindustrial times. If she had been 15 or so, then yes, by preindustrial standards, she may have been considered a woman. But nine? No way.

There's no evading the truth that Mohammed, the big cheese of Islam that Muslims fly into a homicidal rage if he is even depicted in cartoons--Mohammed did rape a nine year old girl. It's there, on the record, clear as the Las Vegas Strip at midnight.
 
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celticfan83

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Nine years old is WAY before puberty even today, and puberty comes earlier by a couple years than it did in preindustrial times. If she had been 15 or so, then yes, by preindustrial standards, she may have been considered a woman. But nine? No way.

There's no evading the truth that Mohammed, the big cheese of Islam that Muslims fly into a homicidal rage if he is even depicted in cartoons--Mohammed did rape a nine year old girl. It's there, on the record, clear as the Las Vegas Strip at midnight.
I have read a lot about the early formation of Islam but nothing about what you are speaking of.
Granted nothing would really surprise me about any human civilization in the 7th century. I hate to say this because of how overused it used on CF but do you have a source for what you are speaking of, even if it a book or something else which is not an online source I would love to read or see it.
 
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TheNewWorldMan

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I have read a lot about the early formation of Islam but nothing about what you are speaking of.
Granted nothing would really surprise me about any human civilization in the 7th century. I hate to say this because of how overused it used on CF but do you have a source for what you are speaking of, even if it a book or something else which is not an online source I would love to read or see it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha
http://www.light-of-life.com/eng/reveal/r5405et8.htm#p137
 
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celticfan83

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Allahuakbar

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I was hoping for more the 'history' book reference but I'll do some more research. Thank you however.

You should follow the link...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Muhammad#Aisha

within the Wikipedia article. Wikipedia is not a bad place to start research, but really a horrible one to stop research. The Aisha argument is a frequent one among critics, but is really smoke and mirrors. I know of no legitimate Middle Eastern historian who would support the charge of pedophilia. Yes Aisha was young, but nothing inappropriate for the region or time.
 
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ElizabethVu

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When I talk of reducing the government, I mean cutting the number of handout programs we have, cutting taxes, cutting buearocracies, streamlining policies and regulations and the tax code.


I see big government as evil. Government is the biggest corperation of them all. Nothing but men with money and power in a room deciding the course of the country. Without monitoring they sell this country off like peice of stock. A highway here, a few ports there, some laws here and there that erode our rights and benefit only a few corperations. Our elected officials do this enough, those companies with take care of them once the people kick that official out after they've run their district, or state into the gutter.


You say people and the government need to have some bond of trust or some such nonsence. You know how many people watching the "big" debate last week. The one that more people have watched than all the others. 5 million. How many watch American idol on a weekly basis? 30 million. 6 to 1, people would rather watch bad singing than understand the policies of the people who might be our next president. There's no hope for a band with our leaders. The only hope we have is reducing the amount of influence they have over our lives.
 
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TheReasoner

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When I talk of reducing the government, I mean cutting the number of handout programs we have, cutting taxes, cutting buearocracies, streamlining policies and regulations and the tax code.

Yes, I know. I know what you mean, and I do not think that is the way to go.
The government has certain roles to fill.
1. Educator. Public schools are a necessity. The future of any nation depends largely - perhaps even primarily on the quality of these.
2. Protector. Firefighters. Police. Even the army are - and must remain in the hands of the government.
3. Deliverer. Or rather, delivery boy. I speak of basic infrastructure. Roads, highways, airports, railroads... The bloodvessels of any nation.

Now, you can cut taxes, but these (and more) things are still going to cost a lot of money. You can only try to make them so effective. Only cut their budgets so much before quality cringes and gives way. First thing which will have to be reduced is equipment availability, quality and salaries. Plus of course the amount of firefighters, teachers, police officers etc. your nation has available.
Like most right wingers it seems you have a particularly strong affection for 'cutting'. I am all for efficiency mind you. But I do not think cutting everything everywhere is always the solution. It's a quick and easy answer to a complex problem. Which is a surefire way of messing it up. What you need in order to realize what you can cut, IF you can cut and where you must do a LOT of work. This work costs money. And it takes time. Possibly quite a bit of time.
And you may find out that you'll need to increase taxes in some areas to fund what your nation needs to retain it's competitive edge. Which - let's face it - has become somewhat dulled lately. Still sharp, very sharp. But much duller than it was.

I see big government as evil. Government is the biggest corperation of them all.

The beauty of democracy is that it can only be so if you allow it to.

Nothing but men with money and power in a room deciding the course of the country. Without monitoring they sell this country off like peice of stock. A highway here, a few ports there, some laws here and there that erode our rights and benefit only a few corperations. Our elected officials do this enough, those companies with take care of them once the people kick that official out after they've run their district, or state into the gutter.

So why don't you do something about it? This world's history is full of individuals who make a change. Gandhi. Mother Theresa. Martin Luther King. Martin Luther... To quote a man I don't really like much "Whether you think you can or can't - you're right"
Ford said that. Like I said, I don't like him much. But the quote is dead on. Never underestimate the power of one.

You say people and the government need to have some bond of trust or some such nonsence. You know how many people watching the "big" debate last week. The one that more people have watched than all the others. 5 million. How many watch American idol on a weekly basis? 30 million. 6 to 1, people would rather watch bad singing than understand the policies of the people who might be our next president. There's no hope for a band with our leaders. The only hope we have is reducing the amount of influence they have over our lives.

Nonsense. It's with an S.
Can you really blame them though? Your politicians are corrupt. The election campaigns are little more than a farce. The differences between the parties are little more than cosmetics. And your history shows that they don't really care much about you the people.
I do not bring up the mutual trust between government and people we enjoy here lightly. It has been instrumental in lifting us up from one of the poorest nations in Europe to one of the richest. What I said is not nonsense. For us, socialism, trust, democracy and a few other things built us up from nothing to something. It may seem strange to you that what pulled us up from a deep marsh was taxation, (somewhat kind) nationalization of natural resources such as waterfalls and oil. And - essentially a big government. In a manner of speaking anyway.

My tip to you is to look at other nations. See what they have done. What works, what doesn't. Adapt it to an American way of thinking - and go for it. The sky's the limit. You as an American should realize that. Historically speaking you're a nation of groundbreakers. Of plowheads, leading the way, braking untilled soil. Einstein praised your nation up and down for your ingenuity your adaptability and your ability to make an impact as individuals.
Of course, he also criticized the American mothers specifically for being slow to accept change, and viewing change as detrimental.

So I'd say it's up to you which of Einstein's Americans you are. A creative, adaptive go-getter or a sceptic change-stopper.
Be thankful that you can make a change. Be wise enough to look at what others have done before making your own decision. And be a pioneer.
 
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TheNewWorldMan

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You should follow the link...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Muhammad#Aisha

within the Wikipedia article. Wikipedia is not a bad place to start research, but really a horrible one to stop research. The Aisha argument is a frequent one among critics, but is really smoke and mirrors. I know of no legitimate Middle Eastern historian who would support the charge of pedophilia. Yes Aisha was young, but nothing inappropriate for the region or time.

Again, while I concede the 18 year-old age of consent idea is modern, and marriages usually occurred at earlier ages in preindustrial times, a man in his forties who rapes a nine year old girl is a pedophile, Q.E.D. There's no way Aisha was sexually mature at nine. Mohammed had sex with a child. That's pedophilia.

This is one of the reasons I believe Islam is incompatible with Western civilization. Apparently under Islam it's appropriate for a middle-aged man to have sex with pre-pubescent girls. Here in the West, that idea is abhorrent.
 
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Archaeopteryx

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Again, while I concede the 18 year-old age of consent idea is modern, and marriages usually occurred at earlier ages in preindustrial times, a man in his forties who rapes a nine year old girl is a pedophile, Q.E.D. There's no way Aisha was sexually mature at nine. Mohammed had sex with a child. That's pedophilia.

This is one of the reasons I believe Islam is incompatible with Western civilization. Apparently under Islam it's appropriate for a middle-aged man to have sex with pre-pubescent girls. Here in the West, that idea is abhorrent.
I am not going to defend the Prophet's actions, because I think that it was inappropriate activity. However, when I think of sociocultural normality, I ask the question of whether it was socioculturally 'normal' for such an activity to occur. It seems that it was, in that time and culture. In the eyes of individuals during that time therefore, such an action would likely not have been considered abnormal. However, cultures evolve to higher complexity and sophistication. In light of this, I think it is highly unlikely for any contemporary Muslim to condone such actions on the basis of historic sociocultural normality. It was an abhorrent action, and through the course of history and cultural evolution, individuals have come to see it as thus.
 
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oldbetang

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I do not think big government is the problem. If you look at the Scandinavian nations in comparison to the US (where the government is arguably 'smaller' than in Scandinavia) you'll find that the US - having a smaller government - has a lot less press freedom. Citizen rights. Freedom of speech. and more.

I seriously doubt that Scandinavian countries have greater press freedom, citizen rights, freedom of speech, etc.. If the leftists in the US have their way (they have been pushing) then we'll see it. Canada is already there , with the Human rights commisions and all, but Americans have a significant degree of libertarianism. Not to mention , the First and Second Amendments.
 
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