George Knight's AT article on EGW's authourity

NightEternal

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Visions and The Word ~ The complete article from Adventist Today Vol. 15 No. 6

VISIONS AND THE WORD: THE AUTHORITY OF ELLEN WHITE IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE AUTHORITY OF SCRIPTURE IN THE SEVENTH- DAY ADVENTIST MOVEMENT

George R. Knight
Andrews Univerisity

James White and the other early leaders of the Seventh-day Adventist Church had no doubt that the Bible taught that God would pour out the prophetic gift during the last days, and that individuals had a responsibility to test by the Bible criteria those who claimed to be prophets. Adventist leaders also had no doubt that any such gifts must be subordinate to the Bible in the life of believers, and that whenever they were not subordinated they were being used wrongly.

At this juncture it is important to recognize that just because the early Adventist leaders believed that Ellen White’s gift of prophecy was subordinate to the authority of the Bible, that did not mean that they held her inspiration to be of a lesser quality than that of the Bible writers. To the contrary, they believed that the same Voice of authority that spoke through the Bible prophets also communicated through her.
We find a careful balance here. Even though early Adventists viewed her inspiration as being equally divine in origin with that of the Bible writers, they did not see her as being the same in authority.

Ellen White and her fellow Adventists held that her authority was derived from the Bible and thus could not be equal to it. As a result, her authority was not to transcend or contradict the boundaries of truth set forth in the Bible.

The reforming element that was pushing for a more Christ-centered theology rejected all appeals to human authority in solving theological and biblical issues. Ellen White, the only remaining founder of the denomination, stood firmly with the reformers in their primacy of scripture position.

But the official leadership of the denomination not only sought to use human authority to shore up what they saw as threats to traditional Adventist theology, but also the authority of Ellen White. In the eyes of General Conference president George I. Butler an authoritative word from the pen of Ellen White would solve both the biblical and the theological issues facing the church. he wrote more than a dozen letters requesting, and at times demanding, that she use her authority to settle the controversial issues.

Significantly, Ellen White refused to let Butler and his colleagues use her writings to settle the theological/biblical issues dividing the denomination. She even went so far as to tell the delegates to the 1888 General Conference session on October 24 that it was providential that she had lost the one writing in which she had purportedly identified the law in Galatians. “God,” she asserted, “has a purpose in this. He wants us to go to the Bible and get the Scripture evidence.” In other words, she rejected the position of Butler and others that sought to use her writings as an inspired commentary on the Bible.

She was not willing to let her writings be used to settle the interpretive issue. For her scripture was supreme. While her writings might be used to apply scriptural principles to her context, they were not to be used authoritatively to give the final word on the meaning of scripture. And to make sure that they would not be used improperly to solve that particular issue she had the quotations on the law in Galatians removed when she revised the book some years later.

And in August she wrote to all the delegates of the forthcoming General Conference session that “the Word of God is the great detecter of error; to it we believe everything must be brought. The Bible must be our standard for every doctrine and practice. . . . We are to receive no one’s opinion without comparing it with the Scriptures. Here is divine authority which is supreme in matters of faith. It is the word of the living God that is to decide all controversies.”

Ellen White herself had held to the position of early Adventism. But many of the second generation leaders and ministers had moved from that well defined position and had sought to use Ellen White’s prophetic authority to settle theological and exegetical issues.

Thus in both the struggles over the daily and the law in Galatians, Ellen White took the position that her comments were not to be used as if she were an infallible commentator to settle the meaning of the Bible.

Her refusal to function as an infallible Bible commentator should not have surprised anyone. She had not assumed that role in the past, but had always pointed people to their need to study the Bible for themselves. Never did she take the position that “you must let me tell you what the Bible really means.”

To that comment Daniells responded: “Yes, but I have heard ministers say that the spirit of prophecy is the interpreter of the Bible. I heard it preached at the General Conference some years ago [by A. T. Jones], when it was said that the only way we could understand the Bible was through the writings of the spirit of prophecy.” J. M. Anderson added that “he also said ‘infallible interpreter.’” Daniells responded by observing that that “is not our position, and it is not right that the spirit of prophecy is the only safe interpreter of the Bible. That is a false doctrine, a false view. It will not stand.”

The middle decades of the twentieth century found Adventists more and more using Ellen White’s writings to both settle biblical issues and to do theology. Few would have openly admitted that they were putting Ellen White’s authority above that of the bible, but their writings and discussions indicated that all too many Adventists (if not most) were spending more time with Ellen White than with the Bible. She had for most of them become the final word on any biblical passage that she had utilized and a doctrinal authority. A word from Ellen White tended to end discussion. The official position of the denomination may not have changed but practice certainly had.

Significantly, in 1981 Robert Olson, director of the Ellen G. White Estate, faced the problems inherent in the infallible commentary approach when he wrote that “to give an individual complete interpretive control over the bible would, in effect, elevate that person above the Bible. It would be a mistake to allow even the apostle Paul to exercise interpretive control over all other Bible writers. In such a case, Paul, and not the whole Bible, would be one’s final authority.”

Olson went on to note that “Ellen White’s writings are generally homiletical or evangelistic in nature and not strictly exegetical.”

In fact, she often accommodated the words of a text to her own homiletical needs. Thus she could derive quite different meanings from the same passage, depending on her purpose. Olson does note correctly that she sometimes interprets texts exegetically, even though she “generally” spoke homiletically. But that fact does not imply that she ever claimed to be a divine commentary on scripture.

In the early twenty-first century mainline Adventism has a healthier understanding of the relationship between Ellen White’s authority and that of the Bible. Its theologians and biblical interpreters have a better grasp of the biblical position and that of the founders of the church, including Ellen White herself. In practice that means that she is neither a determiner of doctrine nor the final word on the meaning of scripture.

But old habits and ways of thinking die hard for some, even when they know the facts. And there are many mainline Adventists who haven’t even caught up with the facts yet. But when all is said and done mainline Adventism is light years ahead of where it was in 1980 in its understanding of Ellen White’s authority.

The same cannot be said for sectarian Adventism. The perfectionistic, fundamentalistic sub-denominations within the denomination still largely rely on Ellen White for their theology and have no problem viewing her as an infallible commentary on the Bible.

This sector of Adventism has even developed an Ellen White Study Bible that has Ellen White notes and marginal references. Such a Bible would have been totally rejected in early Adventism.

Some years ago I persuaded the publishing house administration to drop its marketing of the Ellen White Study Bible on the grounds that Ellen White would vigorously object to it from what we know of her principles historically. But after some months the publishing house president phoned me, notifying me that they were reversing their decision because there was a demand for the Study Bible and it sells well. So much for higher principles!

Sectarian Adventist groups are critical of mainline Adventism for its “betrayal” of the prophet and often consider themselves in one form or another to be the true historic Adventists. Unfortunately, their understanding of history focuses on the period from the 1920s through the 1950s and the approach to Ellen White’s writings set forth by A. T. Jones in the 1890s. They have failed to capture the biblical understanding of the founders of the denomination, including that of Ellen White herself.

http://www.atoday.com/node/3095
 

StormyOne

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not surprising... let's be real, there are some people in the church that want EVERYTHING spelled out for them. EGW does that to a degree so by having her writings they don't have to "think" about what God might want from them, they run to the writings and find it there.... they are comfortable in the box they are in.... so I let them enjoy it....
 
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RC_NewProtestants

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Mankin--I've seen you 'parrot' the minds of others in here A LOT!

So I guess the goose and gander thingy doesn't apply for you?
I see how mankin's post relates to the thread but I don't see how Honor's does. It seems to be an attack for some reason. Not helpful and not responsive to the topic.
 
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Sophia7

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Some years ago I persuaded the publishing house administration to drop its marketing of the Ellen White Study Bible on the grounds that Ellen White would vigorously object to it from what we know of her principles historically. But after some months the publishing house president phoned me, notifying me that they were reversing their decision because there was a demand for the Study Bible and it sells well. So much for higher principles!
Wow. So much for higher principles, indeed.
 
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StormyOne

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Last I checked the Holy Spirit that inspired the Bible, also inspired the SOP. Same Holy Spirit. Same inspiration. Not to make it so that people don't have to think but to make them think even more.

One of Satan's last day deceptions is to make of "none effect" the Spirit of Prophecy.
the spirit of prophecy is NOT a person... never has been.... nor is it the writings by a person.... perhaps that's part of the problem...
 
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Mankin

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Mankin--I've seen you 'parrot' the minds of others in here A LOT!

So I guess the goose and gander thingy doesn't apply for you?
I am VERY capable of speaking my own mind. The only time you might consider me "parroting" is because I don't feel like writing a huge response at the time. It seems you are the one parroting the most with the typical trad attack. Don't tell how something is wrong just flame the writer of the post.:doh:
 
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foofighter

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I'm particularly dumbfounded by the comment by EGW that God had told her what the law in Galatians was, but she lost that one paper where it was written. Could she not remember what God said? It's a pretty big deal to get direct information on such an important subject from the Lord himself. Simply amazing that anyone could write and believe such silliness. This is supposed to bolster belief in EGW as a prophet? Does anyone else think this is absurd?
 
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foofighter

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NightEternal,

I see. I was just so shocked by the "I lost my paper" excuse I just couldn't see why anyone would believe anything from EGW. Isn't this kind of like "God put his hand over the numbers" regarding 1844? What is your opinion about EGW? Are you in agreement with George Knight? Just wondering.
 
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Adventist Heretic

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Visions and The Word ~ The complete article from Adventist Today Vol. 15 No. 6

VISIONS AND THE WORD: THE AUTHORITY OF ELLEN WHITE IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE AUTHORITY OF SCRIPTURE IN THE SEVENTH- DAY ADVENTIST MOVEMENT

George R. Knight
Andrews Univerisity

James White and the other early leaders of the Seventh-day Adventist Church had no doubt that the Bible taught that God would pour out the prophetic gift during the last days, and that individuals had a responsibility to test by the Bible criteria those who claimed to be prophets. Adventist leaders also had no doubt that any such gifts must be subordinate to the Bible in the life of believers, and that whenever they were not subordinated they were being used wrongly.

At this juncture it is important to recognize that just because the early Adventist leaders believed that Ellen White’s gift of prophecy was subordinate to the authority of the Bible, that did not mean that they held her inspiration to be of a lesser quality than that of the Bible writers. To the contrary, they believed that the same Voice of authority that spoke through the Bible prophets also communicated through her.
We find a careful balance here. Even though early Adventists viewed her inspiration as being equally divine in origin with that of the Bible writers, they did not see her as being the same in authority.

Ellen White and her fellow Adventists held that her authority was derived from the Bible and thus could not be equal to it. As a result, her authority was not to transcend or contradict the boundaries of truth set forth in the Bible.

The reforming element that was pushing for a more Christ-centered theology rejected all appeals to human authority in solving theological and biblical issues. Ellen White, the only remaining founder of the denomination, stood firmly with the reformers in their primacy of scripture position.

But the official leadership of the denomination not only sought to use human authority to shore up what they saw as threats to traditional Adventist theology, but also the authority of Ellen White. In the eyes of General Conference president George I. Butler an authoritative word from the pen of Ellen White would solve both the biblical and the theological issues facing the church. he wrote more than a dozen letters requesting, and at times demanding, that she use her authority to settle the controversial issues.

Significantly, Ellen White refused to let Butler and his colleagues use her writings to settle the theological/biblical issues dividing the denomination. She even went so far as to tell the delegates to the 1888 General Conference session on October 24 that it was providential that she had lost the one writing in which she had purportedly identified the law in Galatians. “God,” she asserted, “has a purpose in this. He wants us to go to the Bible and get the Scripture evidence.” In other words, she rejected the position of Butler and others that sought to use her writings as an inspired commentary on the Bible.

She was not willing to let her writings be used to settle the interpretive issue. For her scripture was supreme. While her writings might be used to apply scriptural principles to her context, they were not to be used authoritatively to give the final word on the meaning of scripture. And to make sure that they would not be used improperly to solve that particular issue she had the quotations on the law in Galatians removed when she revised the book some years later.

And in August she wrote to all the delegates of the forthcoming General Conference session that “the Word of God is the great detecter of error; to it we believe everything must be brought. The Bible must be our standard for every doctrine and practice. . . . We are to receive no one’s opinion without comparing it with the Scriptures. Here is divine authority which is supreme in matters of faith. It is the word of the living God that is to decide all controversies.”

Ellen White herself had held to the position of early Adventism. But many of the second generation leaders and ministers had moved from that well defined position and had sought to use Ellen White’s prophetic authority to settle theological and exegetical issues.

Thus in both the struggles over the daily and the law in Galatians, Ellen White took the position that her comments were not to be used as if she were an infallible commentator to settle the meaning of the Bible.

Her refusal to function as an infallible Bible commentator should not have surprised anyone. She had not assumed that role in the past, but had always pointed people to their need to study the Bible for themselves. Never did she take the position that “you must let me tell you what the Bible really means.”

To that comment Daniells responded: “Yes, but I have heard ministers say that the spirit of prophecy is the interpreter of the Bible. I heard it preached at the General Conference some years ago [by A. T. Jones], when it was said that the only way we could understand the Bible was through the writings of the spirit of prophecy.” J. M. Anderson added that “he also said ‘infallible interpreter.’” Daniells responded by observing that that “is not our position, and it is not right that the spirit of prophecy is the only safe interpreter of the Bible. That is a false doctrine, a false view. It will not stand.”

The middle decades of the twentieth century found Adventists more and more using Ellen White’s writings to both settle biblical issues and to do theology. Few would have openly admitted that they were putting Ellen White’s authority above that of the bible, but their writings and discussions indicated that all too many Adventists (if not most) were spending more time with Ellen White than with the Bible. She had for most of them become the final word on any biblical passage that she had utilized and a doctrinal authority. A word from Ellen White tended to end discussion. The official position of the denomination may not have changed but practice certainly had.

Significantly, in 1981 Robert Olson, director of the Ellen G. White Estate, faced the problems inherent in the infallible commentary approach when he wrote that “to give an individual complete interpretive control over the bible would, in effect, elevate that person above the Bible. It would be a mistake to allow even the apostle Paul to exercise interpretive control over all other Bible writers. In such a case, Paul, and not the whole Bible, would be one’s final authority

Olson went on to note that “Ellen White’s writings are generally homiletical or evangelistic in nature and not strictly exegetical.”

In fact, she often accommodated the words of a text to her own homiletical needs. Thus she could derive quite different meanings from the same passage, depending on her purpose. Olson does note correctly that she sometimes interprets texts exegetically, even though she “generally” spoke homiletically. But that fact does not imply that she ever claimed to be a divine commentary on scripture.

In the early twenty-first century mainline Adventism has a healthier understanding of the relationship between Ellen White’s authority and that of the Bible. Its theologians and biblical interpreters have a better grasp of the biblical position and that of the founders of the church, including Ellen White herself. In practice that means that she is neither a determiner of doctrine nor the final word on the meaning of scripture.

But old habits and ways of thinking die hard for some, even when they know the facts. And there are many mainline Adventists who haven’t even caught up with the facts yet. But when all is said and done mainline Adventism is light years ahead of where it was in 1980 in its understanding of Ellen White’s authority.

The same cannot be said for sectarian Adventism. The perfectionistic, fundamentalistic sub-denominations within the denomination still largely rely on Ellen White for their theology and have no problem viewing her as an infallible commentary on the Bible.

This sector of Adventism has even developed an Ellen White Study Bible that has Ellen White notes and marginal references. Such a Bible would have been totally rejected in early Adventism.

Some years ago I persuaded the publishing house administration to drop its marketing of the Ellen White Study Bible on the grounds that Ellen White would vigorously object to it from what we know of her principles historically. But after some months the publishing house president phoned me, notifying me that they were reversing their decision because there was a demand for the Study Bible and it sells well. So much for higher principles!

Sectarian Adventist groups are critical of mainline Adventism for its “betrayal” of the prophet and often consider themselves in one form or another to be the true historic Adventists. Unfortunately, their understanding of history focuses on the period from the 1920s through the 1950s and the approach to Ellen White’s writings set forth by A. T. Jones in the 1890s. They have failed to capture the biblical understanding of the founders of the denomination, including that of Ellen White herself.

http://www.atoday.com/node/3095
Night is sounds like Knight understands the issues and is finding a way to emphasize one side of the coin to give SDA's what they want to hear. EGW is a prophet and she doen't have the same authoity as the bible. Now how can that be? if it the same lord then it is the same authoirty.

The problem is that He does not put these things in there context. the 1888 issue where she "supposedly" showed her deference to the word of God and did not want Butler to settel thelogical matters with her writings is in the of her writing be the center of the controversy and them being contradictory. She did not want them to be used because they contradicted each other. in 1856 she had a vision in which she endorsed the law in galations being one way then in 1887 endorsed it another way. The denominational postion had been founded on her first endorsement. EGW not wanting people to use her writings must be seen in the light of her being called on theological contradictions and her not wanting to have her influence lessened.

Looks like Knight knows this and is trying to cover it up.
 
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NightEternal

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NightEternal,

I see. I was just so shocked by the "I lost my paper" excuse I just couldn't see why anyone would believe anything from EGW. Isn't this kind of like "God put his hand over the numbers" regarding 1844? What is your opinion about EGW? Are you in agreement with George Knight? Just wondering.

Foofighter, we have gone round and round with this topic so may times on this forum. I am literally wearied by it after almost a year of hashing it out.

I am going to just link you to a thread that pretty much encapsulates my personal view on the matter:

cover_bradford-a.jpg


This is the book that reflects what I believe concerning EGW more or less. I highly recommend it! :thumbsup:

Table of Contents

Foreword9 Introduction 13Part One: Prophets Old And New

1 Ellen White Under Attack 17 2 Steps to understanding biblical inspiration 23 3 God speaks in various ways 31 4 Literary assistance for inspired writers 37 5 The problem of differences in the Bible 39 6 How much do prophets know? 45 7 Testing prophets 53 8 Change in the prophetic role 65 9 The need for discernment 7710 The post-biblical era 85Part Two: More Than A Prophet

11 The gift of prophecy in Adventism 89 12 Borrowing to illustrate spiritual truth 95 13 A multi-gifted prophet107 14 Ellen White's spiritual growth115 15 Ellen White's theological growth121 16Ellen White and her culture131 17Ellen White and the end times137 18The 1919 Bible Conference and its aftermath151 19Building an inerrant Ellen White165 20Post War Adventism175 21Evangelicals and Adventists meet185 22Adventist historians come of age195 23The 1982 Prophetic Guidance Workshop199 24Ellen White and the Bible205 25Implications for the future213 26The Place of the Adventist Church in the larger Christian world.221 27Why be a Seventh-day Adventist?-Some Reasons227 Appendix AAppendix BAppendix C

http://sdanet.org/atissue/books/bradford/index.htm

I believe she was inspired, but my understanding of inspiration is not the same as the Trad understanding. I believe she is subject to the apostles and that her authourity does not extend beyond pastoral. She does not have the authourity of the OT prophets nor does she have doctrinal authourity.

I am not going to be one who whitewashes ansd tries to defend the indefensible. The fact is, she plagiarized, didn't practice what she preached in the area of meat-eating, believed in sinless perfection theology, crushed many of her opponents, had racist tendencies, contradicted herself, took conflicting stands on many issues, made mistakes and got things wrong. Her testimonies can be psychologically damaging for those not prepared to handle the guilt-inducing fear-mongering they contain.

But even in spite of these flaws, God still used her.

I do not accept her as the final authourity on any and every area of life. I believe she grew in her understanding of many things and that both culture and environment influenced her views heavily. She interpreted some things God showed her quite badly and, in some cases, flat-out wrong. We should use our God-given judgment, discernment and common sense when dealing with her views, just like we would with any other inspired writer. She was also heavily influenced by Uriah Smith, William Miller and John Kellogg.

Test all things and hold fast to that which is good. Discard the rest. That is my personal approach to her wether the Trads like it or not.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=40699048#post40699048
 
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Mankin

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Foofighter, we have gone round and round with this topic so may times on this forum. I am literally wearied by it after almost a year of hashing it out.

I am going to just link you to a thread that pretty much encapsulates my personal view on the matter:

cover_bradford-a.jpg


This is the book that reflects what I believe concerning EGW more or less. I highly recommend it! :thumbsup:

Table of Contents

Foreword9 Introduction 13Part One: Prophets Old And New

1 Ellen White Under Attack 17 2 Steps to understanding biblical inspiration 23 3 God speaks in various ways 31 4 Literary assistance for inspired writers 37 5 The problem of differences in the Bible 39 6 How much do prophets know? 45 7 Testing prophets 53 8 Change in the prophetic role 65 9 The need for discernment 7710 The post-biblical era 85Part Two: More Than A Prophet

11 The gift of prophecy in Adventism 89 12 Borrowing to illustrate spiritual truth 95 13 A multi-gifted prophet107 14 Ellen White's spiritual growth115 15 Ellen White's theological growth121 16Ellen White and her culture131 17Ellen White and the end times137 18The 1919 Bible Conference and its aftermath151 19Building an inerrant Ellen White165 20Post War Adventism175 21Evangelicals and Adventists meet185 22Adventist historians come of age195 23The 1982 Prophetic Guidance Workshop199 24Ellen White and the Bible205 25Implications for the future213 26The Place of the Adventist Church in the larger Christian world.221 27Why be a Seventh-day Adventist?-Some Reasons227 Appendix AAppendix BAppendix C

http://sdanet.org/atissue/books/bradford/index.htm

I believe she was inspired, but my understanding of inspiration is not the same as the Trad understanding. I believe she is subject to the apostles and that her authourity does not extend beyond pastoral. She does not have the authourity of the OT prophets nor does she have doctrinal authourity.

I am not going to be one who whitewashes ansd tries to defend the indefensible. The fact is, she plagiarized, didn't practice what she preached in the area of meat-eating, believed in sinless perfection theology, crushed many of her opponents, had racist tendencies, contradicted herself, took conflicting stands on many issues, made mistakes and got things wrong. Her testimonies can be psychologically damaging for those not prepared to handle the guilt-inducing fear-mongering they contain.

But even in spite of these flaws, God still used her.

I do not accept her as the final authourity on any and every area of life. I believe she grew in her understanding of many things and that both culture and environment influenced her views heavily. She interpreted some things God showed her quite badly and, in some cases, flat-out wrong. We should use our God-given judgment, discernment and common sense when dealing with her views, just like we would with any other inspired writer. She was also heavily influenced by Uriah Smith, William Miller and John Kellogg.

Test all things and hold fast to that which is good. Discard the rest. That is my personal approach to her wether the Trads like it or not.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=40699048#post40699048

I agree.:thumbsup:
 
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NightEternal

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Night is sounds like Knight understands the issues and is finding a way to emphasize one side of the coin to give SDA's what they want to hear. EGW is a prophet and she doen't have the same authoity as the bible. Now how can that be? if it the same lord then it is the same authoirty.

The problem is that He does not put these things in there context. the 1888 issue where she "supposedly" showed her deference to the word of God and did not want Butler to settel thelogical matters with her writings is in the of her writing be the center of the controversy and them being contradictory. She did not want them to be used because they contradicted each other. in 1856 she had a vision in which she endorsed the law in galations being one way then in 1887 endorsed it another way. The denominational postion had been founded on her first endorsement. EGW not wanting people to use her writings must be seen in the light of her being called on theological contradictions and her not wanting to have her influence lessened.

Looks like Knight knows this and is trying to cover it up.

Who knows man. All I know is that I am one of the few Progs left here who still believes she was inspired. And I mean one of the FEW. And yet, the Trads give me the MOST grief with thier charges of 'attacking' her.

HOW IN THE WORLD do I get assaulted so much over my questions regarding her, and the ones who have rejected her completely remain relatively unmolested by the Trads? :doh:

It makes no sense. They are either too stupid to see I am one of the more orthodox Progs or they do know this and just don't care.
 
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NightEternal

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Two reasons:

1.) I do not believe in verbal inspiration or the infallibility of her writings.

2.) I am still up in the air concerning the apparent supernatural manifestations that are documented by people who were eye-witnesses to her when she was in vision. I just don't see how a person can fake those things.

I posted on this topic a long time ago, but the thread kind of went nowhere and I did not recieve any satisfactory explanations:

How do you explain the supernatural aspect of her gift?


This is for the Evanglical, Progressive and Liberal Adventists who are still in the church but have abandoned belief in EGW.

What I want to know is how do you explain the supernatural aspect of this whole issue? How do you reconcile the supernatural phenomena that acompanied her visions? :confused:

It seems there are only 4 options available:

1.) Divine supernatural power

2.) Satanic supernatural power

3.) Medical explanations

4.) She faked it

Now, if #3 is chosen, please go through each incident and provide an adequate medical explanation for each one.

If #4 is chosen, please go through each incident and explain, convincingly, how she could have possibly faked such things.

This is not meant to corner you, but as an honest inquiry.

There may be more, but here are the incidents that I can recall off the top of my head:

1.) Holding a large, heavy Bible above her head and pointing to the correct passages without looking

2.) Not breathing for a long period of time with a mirror held to her mouth showing no condensation

3.) A manifestation of such great strength it took large men to hold her still to no avail, resulting in her even dragging one of these men across the floor as he held on to her sweeping arm.

All while in vision, all documented historical fact, all with eye witnesses and medical verification.

Please explain...

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=34177943#post34177943
 
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RC_NewProtestants

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Night have you looked at who was claiming these supernatural events. In some of the cases the information is 2nd and 3rd hand. For instance the heavy Bible was not written about until many years later as an account of what someone told Loughenbough (spelling). If you really want to look at those incidents then find the best descriptions available and accounts of what the witnesses said. I think EllenWhite.org has collected the best reports I have seen as well as responses.

Also I don't recall any Biblical statements that say using supernatural physical manifestations within the body of the person is useful in testing a prophet.
 
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