Someone said something at church the other day about different "levels of heaven".... Struck me as... well... false... That's the only way I can say it. (I think the implication is we can be saved and in heaven not be with Jesus)... Thoughts on this? It just didn't feel right to me (you know, how you get that internal WARNING WARNING WARNING beacon)
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
"Levels in Heaven"
- Thread starter Meshavrischika
- Start date
- Status
See... that's what I was thinking. I was raised Southern Baptist and knew the New Testament practically from birth and I don't remember anything about "levels" and this is the first time I'd heard anyone mention it... It was something he got from his dad... so I'm guessing it's just... well... misinformation.
Upvote
0
There are some references to locations, like the third heaven. But they don't seem to correspond to levels of perfection or intent in humans.
The word "heaven" also refers to the sky and the star area, so there are times it appears to talk about divisions when it's just atmospheric layers.
In the book of Enoch, he talked about being led to different heavenly locations. One was a location where the fallen angels were contained.
Whether it's in the heavens or in Heaven, I don't think the early language made it clear.
I've heard a few near-death stories where people spoke of locations, but it related more to where they felt comfortable -- on one side of the river (risk crossing) or the other.
The word "heaven" also refers to the sky and the star area, so there are times it appears to talk about divisions when it's just atmospheric layers.
In the book of Enoch, he talked about being led to different heavenly locations. One was a location where the fallen angels were contained.
Whether it's in the heavens or in Heaven, I don't think the early language made it clear.
I've heard a few near-death stories where people spoke of locations, but it related more to where they felt comfortable -- on one side of the river (risk crossing) or the other.
Upvote
0
christianmomof3
pursuing Christ
The levels in heaven are from Dante's Divine Comedy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Divine_Comedy
It is a very imaginative book and quite interesting to read, but it is fiction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Divine_Comedy
It is a very imaginative book and quite interesting to read, but it is fiction.
Upvote
0
OneOfHisHandmaidens
Senior Member
Its scriptural.................
2 Corinthians 12:1-3(KJV)
1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth.
2 Corinthians 12:1-3(KJV)
1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth.
Upvote
0
If there is a heaven but no Jesus, I'm not sure I'd want to go there.
that seems very false to me too. I believe that everyone in heaven would experience God's love and presence..heaven is about unity with Him, not just a happy place.
Upvote
0
There are some scriptural justifications for different "levels" in Christianity, but it depends on what you mean by "levels". If you mean some places where Jesus is and some where He isn't, you'd be wrong. Heaven is nonsense if God isn't there. I think a much more reasonable (and hopefully more common) conception of different levels is different levels of reward, which I believe is very strongly based in scripture. Here's my list (all texts are NIV):
1 Cor 15:
39All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.
This is, in my opinion, one of the weaker texts, and I don't use it very much. I'm only including because it's one that I hear referenced very often. The idea is that different people's heavenly bodies have different levels of "splendor", which corresponds to their reward, or rank, or "level" in heaven.
Another good scripture is the entire description of the tabernacle of the Testimony (Ex 25-32? Around there). There is the outer court, the Holy Place, and the Most Holy Place. Since we know this is a shadow of the true tabernacle (See Hebrews), then we know that there must be an outer court, a Holy Place, and a Most Holy Place in heaven as well. These could also be construed (reasonably) as "levels".
Another couple good scriptures are the parables of the talents and minas, which I presume everyone knows and can find. In the parable of the minas in particular, we can see that the number of cities the first two faithful servants were given matched the number of minas they had. So we know from that, that different people are rewarded differently based on how much fruit they bear in this life. You might challenge this (since I'm not really developing the idea much or backing it up), but I'll just leave it out here.
Another good scripture about different rewards in heaven is 1 Cor 3:
10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
This clearly demonstrates that Christians (who are building on the foundation of Christ) can either build with things of value, or things of no value. You then know that some receive "his/her reward" and some "suffer loss", but are saved anyway. This is a clear differentiator, and could be construed as different "levels" of reward, depending on what you build with.
I could go on and on and on, but this is a pretty good foundation.
(I used to really dislike the notion of different rewards in heaven, since it seemed unbiblical to me as well, but the 1 Cor 3 and parts of 1 Cor 15 that I didn't reference really changed my mind on the subject. I've since found the other piles of verses)
1 Cor 15:
39All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.
This is, in my opinion, one of the weaker texts, and I don't use it very much. I'm only including because it's one that I hear referenced very often. The idea is that different people's heavenly bodies have different levels of "splendor", which corresponds to their reward, or rank, or "level" in heaven.
Another good scripture is the entire description of the tabernacle of the Testimony (Ex 25-32? Around there). There is the outer court, the Holy Place, and the Most Holy Place. Since we know this is a shadow of the true tabernacle (See Hebrews), then we know that there must be an outer court, a Holy Place, and a Most Holy Place in heaven as well. These could also be construed (reasonably) as "levels".
Another couple good scriptures are the parables of the talents and minas, which I presume everyone knows and can find. In the parable of the minas in particular, we can see that the number of cities the first two faithful servants were given matched the number of minas they had. So we know from that, that different people are rewarded differently based on how much fruit they bear in this life. You might challenge this (since I'm not really developing the idea much or backing it up), but I'll just leave it out here.
Another good scripture about different rewards in heaven is 1 Cor 3:
10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
This clearly demonstrates that Christians (who are building on the foundation of Christ) can either build with things of value, or things of no value. You then know that some receive "his/her reward" and some "suffer loss", but are saved anyway. This is a clear differentiator, and could be construed as different "levels" of reward, depending on what you build with.
I could go on and on and on, but this is a pretty good foundation.
(I used to really dislike the notion of different rewards in heaven, since it seemed unbiblical to me as well, but the 1 Cor 3 and parts of 1 Cor 15 that I didn't reference really changed my mind on the subject. I've since found the other piles of verses)
Upvote
0
This is exactly what i was going to say. It is famous fiction. Just like Dante's Inferno is about the "levels" of hell. It is the only place i have ever heard the idea of Levels being in heaven or hell. The text was supposedly inspired by Islamic works I believe. So maybe these are Muslim views?
Upvote
0
- Oct 23, 2003
- 16,711
- 1,132
- 54
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- CA-Conservatives
If you want to be great in the Kingdom of heaven seems to imply different levels. Storing up heavenly rewards that last seems to imply different rewards. And John who was greatest in the OT will be least in the new seems to imply levels. Hell also has different levels, and the Bible speaks of those as well.
Upvote
0
If by "levels," "heavens" are meant - at least 3
There are several verses - here's a few:
Earth's atmosphere:
Gen 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
2nd heaven - can be seen - There are 2 accounts where Elisha did
II Kings 6: 17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
II Kings 2: 11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
3rd heaven - 2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
There are several verses - here's a few:
Earth's atmosphere:
Gen 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
2nd heaven - can be seen - There are 2 accounts where Elisha did
II Kings 6: 17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
II Kings 2: 11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
3rd heaven - 2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
Upvote
0
The description of the temple and of custom mansions in heaven indicate location, buildings, and tangible objects within finite spaces. That would make me conclude that one measurable heavenly realm is not all that will exist for eternity. There will probably be SO much more, and who knows what it will be named.
Re 11:19And the temple of God which is in heaven was opened; and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple,
Re 11:19And the temple of God which is in heaven was opened; and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple,
Upvote
0
- Status
Similar threads
