How to kill Palestinians

[Servant222]

Here is a picture of the City of David

 

[Micah68]

I know my opinion won't be popular. Well, here it goes. I feel sorry for the palestinians. Ariel Sharon, on many occasions, has said that Palestinians are dogs and should be treated as such. The Israeli government does not consider Palestinians people. An Israeli actually has the legal right to take a house, business, land, or anything that belongs to a Palestinian if they want it. They can even get away with raping and killing innocent women children. And the UN says Apartheid is dead. Shame on Israel. They have angered God once again with their actions. He has taken away His covering and blessing from them.

You speak Truth! So nice to see, thank you.

 

[Micah68]

What made you think I implied that? All Jews are descended from Abraham and G-d promised him the land for all time.

Well, how is it determined that you are descended from Abraham? Is it by just saying you are Jewish? What is it that makes you Jewish? Do you believe that Jews are the sole descendants of Abraham?

 

[gwynedd1]

Well, how is it determined that you are descended from Abraham? Is it by just saying you are Jewish? What is it that makes you Jewish? Do you believe that Jews are the sole descendants of Abraham?

Hello Micah68,

A decedent is a decedent I suppose however in terms of how much this is debatable for certain. This book just confirms what we see with our own eyes. Ashkenazi look very European because they mostly are.

http://www.christusrex.org/www2/koestler/


Now in in the Middle East we also have Christian and Muslim converts from Jews and the 10 other tribes of Israel.
Now I would doubt there is no relationship as some Jews from the Middle East did enter the Khazarian Empire. However I doubt it would be more than most people in the Middle East. One could eliminate Eskimos as a possibility but little else from the perspective of physical decedents.
Now a Jew would consider those that abandoned their faith as having been cut-off . This would not be true for any other believer and the secular state of Israel with a large population of atheist Jews really causes quite an issue from that perspective. As usual the gray areas are always claimed to benefit one's personal point of view.
As for me, I consider the individual faiths of Judaism and do not consider it an actual race as my own eyes tell me so though it is possible there is some Hebrew in there as well. Turkic peoples seem to have selected all 3 of the major religions . The Turks Islam, Bulgarians Christianity and Khazars Judaism.

 

[Micah68]

Hello Micah68,

A decedent is a decedent I suppose however in terms of how much this is debatable for certain. This book just confirms what we see with our own eyes. Ashkenazi look very European because they mostly are.

http://www.christusrex.org/www2/koestler/


Now in in the Middle East we also have Christian and Muslim converts from Jews and the 10 other tribes of Israel.
Now I would doubt there is no relationship as some Jews from the Middle East did enter the Khazarian Empire. However I doubt it would be more than most people in the Middle East. One could eliminate Eskimos as a possibility but little else from the perspective of physical decedents.
Now a Jew would consider those that abandoned their faith as having been cut-off . This would not be true for any other believer and the secular state of Israel with a large population of atheist Jews really causes quite an issue from that perspective. As usual the gray areas are always claimed to benefit one's personal point of view.
As for me, I consider the individual faiths of Judaism and do not consider it an actual race as my own eyes tell me so though it is possible there is some Hebrew in there as well. Turkic peoples seem to have selected all 3 of the major religions . The Turks Islam, Bulgarians Christianity and Khazars Judaism.

Thank you

 

[Tanakh]

Well, how is it determined that you are descended from Abraham? Is it by just saying you are Jewish? What is it that makes you Jewish? Do you believe that Jews are the sole descendants of Abraham?

You are a descendent of Abraham if you adhere to the covenant that G-d made with him. Granted converts are not direct descendants but nonetheless all Jews are of him. What makes a Jew a Jew is following the 613 commands, believing that the Torah is the word of G-d that He dictated to Moses on Mount Sinai, have a Jewish mother or had a conversion the was in accordance with Jewish law and to live according to Jewish law; this is it in its most basic sense but this does not mean that if you simply follow the commandments that this alone makes someone Jewish as it takes much more than that. And yes we Jews are the sole descendants of Abraham and the covenant that was made with him.

 

[Tanakh]

I know my opinion won't be popular. Well, here it goes. I feel sorry for the palestinians. Ariel Sharon, on many occasions, has said that Palestinians are dogs and should be treated as such. The Israeli government does not consider Palestinians people. An Israeli actually has the legal right to take a house, business, land, or anything that belongs to a Palestinian if they want it. They can even get away with raping and killing innocent women children. And the UN says Apartheid is dead. Shame on Israel. They have angered God once again with their actions. He has taken away His covering and blessing from them.

The Muslims call us Jews pigs as well so what the difference? The Israeli government took the homes of Jews in Gaza for the "disengagement" in 2005 to appease the "Palestinians" and for what? The "Palestinians" have done nothing to improve the area so what good that did I have no idea. I have yet to hear of Israeli soldiers raping women en mass before but. In Lebanon in 1982 many hundreds of Israeli soldiers were killed because Sharon did not want to "hurt" women and children thus the IDF could not do what needed to be done and we lost because we had to protect the women and children. Screw them as I am not going to loose anything over anyone just so we can protect their "rights". Have we angered G-d or have the ones who kill Jews so that can have something that G-d did not promise them? You tell me who is really [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ing G-d off.

 

[Servant222]

So the rocket attacks against Israel from Gaza continue unabated- according to the Associated Press about a thousand such devices have been fired over the border in the last 5 months.

So pray tell, how will the rocket attacks ever help the Palestinians? What the Palestinians need most is peace, security, and some hope and prosperity. Like the rest of us, I am sure they want reliable health care, education, good jobs, the ability to be creative and pursue opportunity.

But they have nothing of this. Even their extremely wealthy Arab brothers in the region have no desire to provide any investment in Gaza- therefore ensuring that the cycle of poverty and desperation continues.

To me, it is just inexplicable that the Palestinians keep doing things that are guaranteed to bring them more misery- why can't they look at their brothers in Egypt or Jordan and see that there is a better way. At what point will they realize that their present course will only bring continuing death and destruction, and that they only way forward is to completely change direction and try a new way.

 

[gwynedd1]

You are a descendent of Abraham if you adhere to the covenant that G-d made with him. Granted converts are not direct descendants but nonetheless all Jews are of him. What makes a Jew a Jew is following the 613 commands, believing that the Torah is the word of G-d that He dictated to Moses on Mount Sinai, have a Jewish mother or had a conversion the was in accordance with Jewish law and to live according to Jewish law; this is it in its most basic sense but this does not mean that if you simply follow the commandments that this alone makes someone Jewish as it takes much more than that. And yes we Jews are the sole descendants of Abraham and the covenant that was made with him.

Hello Tanakh,
I can agree up to the point that what essentially makes one a Jew is living like one. Leviticus spells out clearly that not to do so is to be cut off from the people.
However Jews are not the sole decedents of Abraham at all. The promise went through Isaac to Jacob who was the father of the 12 tribes of Israel with Judah being only one.
If you have scripture in the Old Testament(since this is a Christian forum I will use the correct terminology for the context) that shows Jews as the only decedents then by all means show me.
As we all know Jews were declared an important pathway to God as being the line of David but not by virtue of a special relationship to Abraham over the other tribes of Israel.

 

[gwynedd1]

So the rocket attacks against Israel from Gaza continue unabated- according to the Associated Press about a thousand such devices have been fired over the border in the last 5 months.

So pray tell, how will the rocket attacks ever help the Palestinians? What the Palestinians need most is peace, security, and some hope and prosperity. Like the rest of us, I am sure they want reliable health care, education, good jobs, the ability to be creative and pursue opportunity.

But they have nothing of this. Even their extremely wealthy Arab brothers in the region have no desire to provide any investment in Gaza- therefore ensuring that the cycle of poverty and desperation continues.

To me, it is just inexplicable that the Palestinians keep doing things that are guaranteed to bring them more misery- why can't they look at their brothers in Egypt or Jordan and see that there is a better way. At what point will they realize that their present course will only bring continuing death and destruction, and that they only way forward is to completely change direction and try a new way.

Hello Servant222,

It looks like you and I are in agreement on the fruits of Palestinian armed resistance. The root cause is irrelevant to proximate cause in the short term memory of politics. I was told it is because of the wall and the oppression. That is true in part. The causes of the Palestinian plight are as follows.

1. Israeli aggression and occupation. Israel may or may not be defending itself now. However moving into a house uninvited and then "defending" it is not really self defense now is it?
2. Palestinian culture and Islam. To violently respond to a better armed foe is the fruits of Islam. No matter how much Israel has been the cause, armed resistance provides the only thing Israel does not have, political cover and a pretext. To be sure Israel would manufacture a pretext but there is no need as the Palestinians seal their fates to provide it. The root cause is irrelevant when the proximate cause will destroy them. Unfortunately Islam does not have this concept.

Peace is the enemy of Israel. Only war can maintain the current ghetto system that separates peoples. The more their is tension the more Jews will marry Jews and Arabs will survive as they might out side of a growing greater Israel as it is continually justified. If Palestinians stop attacking, then Israel will be forced to provoke or stage attacks as done in the past like the well known Levon Affair, King David Hotel , USS Liberty and the like. Just look at recent interviews with Moshe Dyan who said it was Israel they provoked Syria, not the other way around. I would guess many Jews do not even know this. However many Jews have seen fraternity with other peoples as a threat of assimilation. constant tension between surrounding people is viewed to preserve the race.
However, as Palestinians cheer on violence against Israel, or anyone else, then it does not matter who has done the act as it will appear as the will of the Palestinian people. Very few will remember how we got here. You are what you do.

 

[Servant222]

Here is the wall on the drive up to the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem- horrible and ugly. Imagine if one day you woke up to find you could no longer just walk over and enjoy a conversation with your neighbour.

So it is easy to accuse Israel of being the villian here.

But if we look at the history of the wall, we find that Israel never expressed any intention whatsoever of building such an ugly and expensive structure- until the suicide bombing started becoming an almost weekly affair.

Even as it was being planned, it was very controversial. But everytime that moderate voices seemed to prevail, another Palestinian would walk onto a bus somewhere and indiscriminately blow another group of men, woman, children up.

Ask anyone in Jerusalem today whether the wall did what it was supposed to do. Can you even remember when the last suicide bombing happened?

 

[Servant222]

Do you think the Palestinian would be better or worse off if they reflected on what their present leaders and religious beliefs have brought them, and followed the teachings of the Bible and Jesus instead?

The best thing we can do to bring about peace in the Palestinian territories is to promote democracy and free speech and freedom of religion. Only then will there be a chance that the violence will end.

 

[Micah68]

Hello Servant222,

It looks like you and I are in agreement on the fruits of Palestinian armed resistance. The root cause is irrelevant to proximate cause in the short term memory of politics. I was told it is because of the wall and the oppression. That is true in part. The causes of the Palestinian plight are as follows.

1. Israeli aggression and occupation. Israel may or may not be defending itself now. However moving into a house uninvited and then "defending" it is not really self defense now is it?
2. Palestinian culture and Islam. To violently respond to a better armed foe is the fruits of Islam. No matter how much Israel has been the cause, armed resistance provides the only thing Israel does not have, political cover and a pretext. To be sure Israel would manufacture a pretext but there is no need as the Palestinians seal their fates to provide it. The root cause is irrelevant when the proximate cause will destroy them. Unfortunately Islam does not have this concept.

Peace is the enemy of Israel. Only war can maintain the current ghetto system that separates peoples. The more their is tension the more Jews will marry Jews and Arabs will survive as they might out side of a growing greater Israel as it is continually justified. If Palestinians stop attacking, then Israel will be forced to provoke or stage attacks as done in the past like the well known Levon Affair, King David Hotel , USS Liberty and the like. Just look at recent interviews with Moshe Dyan who said it was Israel they provoked Syria, not the other way around. I would guess many Jews do not even know this. However many Jews have seen fraternity with other peoples as a threat of assimilation. constant tension between surrounding people is viewed to preserve the race.
However, as Palestinians cheer on violence against Israel, or anyone else, then it does not matter who has done the act as it will appear as the will of the Palestinian people. Very few will remember how we got here. You are what you do.

Wow!! Someone who knows what is really going on, THANK YOU!

 

[Micah68]

Here is the wall on the drive up to the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem- horrible and ugly. Imagine if one day you woke up to find you could no longer just walk over and enjoy a conversation with your neighbour.

So it is easy to accuse Israel of being the villian here.

But if we look at the history of the wall, we find that Israel never expressed any intention whatsoever of building such an ugly and expensive structure- until the suicide bombing started becoming an almost weekly affair.

Even as it was being planned, it was very controversial. But everytime that moderate voices seemed to prevail, another Palestinian would walk onto a bus somewhere and indiscriminately blow another group of men, woman, children up.

Ask anyone in Jerusalem today whether the wall did what it was supposed to do. Can you even remember when the last suicide bombing happened?

This illegal wall HAS cut family and friends off from one another, cut people off from jobs, schools, hospitals, etc. There would be NO complaint if this wall had been put on the Internationally recognized Green Line..instead we have Bethlehem totally imprisoned along with many other towns and villiages. See maps

 

[Servant222]

Think about it- every day, your family has to go to work and go to school on a bus, and almost every week, someone blows themselves up on one of those buses.

What would you do? Honestly- what would you do?

So your LEGAL government says "We have to stop this- it will be expensive and ugly, but we must stop the suicide attacks."

Then they do it and, lo and behold, it works- the suicide attacks stop!

And there is another fact easy to forget here- about 20% of the people riding those buses are Palestinians! You don't think they are as relieved as the Israelis that the suicide bombings have stopped?

 

[Micah68]

Think about it- every day, your family has to go to work and go to school on a bus, and almost every week, someone blows themselves up on one of those buses.

What would you do? Honestly- what would you do?

So your LEGAL government says "We have to stop this- it will be expensive and ugly, but we must stop the suicide attacks."

Then they do it and, lo and behold, it works- the suicide attacks stop!

And there is another fact easy to forget here- about 20% of the people riding those buses are Palestinians! You don't think they are as relieved as the Israelis that the suicide bombings have stopped?

But the deaths do not. Everyday men women and children die because of the ILLEGAL Israeli Occupation and their barbaric policies. Daily homes are bulldozed down, olive groves destroyed, more and more land confiscated by illegal means. It is RIDICULOUS to think that the occupied are responsible for the safety of the occupiers, It is RIDICULOUS to think that the indigenous population should just sit back and give up everything they have worked so hard for all their lives. THERE IS NOTHING in the CHRISTIAN BIBLE THAT SUPPORTS SUCH INJUSTICE!! Yes, poor, poor Israelis, they will never be allowed to live with out fear as long as these injustices continue, tonight children cry theirselves to sleep because of their empty bellies. Shame on you.

Poll: 10% of Palestinian children have lasting malnutrition effects

By The Associated Press

About 10 percent of Palestinian children suffer permanent effects from malnutrition, according to a survey published Wednesday, a result of widespread poverty in the West Bank and Gaza.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/847548.html

The root cause is poverty, according to Khaled Abu Khaled, who directed the study for the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics. He said the numbers are up slightly over the past two years.

 

[Servant222]

Yes, we know all about the suffering of the Palestinians, no one would wish that upon anyone- but it is being perpetrated by their own present actions, or at least the actions of their leaders.

Never mind the past; we can't change that- but we can change the future. So put the politics and the religion of the land as a whole aside for now and concentrate on one question:

What will help an ordinary Palestinian family live a better life? A life where they have access to health care, a good job, religious freedom, prosperity, education, peace, security?

To me, the best answer is this:

Allow that family to move to a country like Germany, France, Great Britain, Australia, Canada, or the U.S.A.

Give them free housing for a year, a living allowance, language lessons, and free schooling and health care. My bet is that the vast majority would jump at the chance. And I bet that would cost a lot less than all the armaments and security measures we're presently spending our money on.

And if you don't like that, then here's the second option that the Palestinians have:

Recognize Israel's right to exist, stop all attacks on the country, renounce violence, and embrace the rule of law. Kind of like what Jordan and Egypt have already done, and have prospered from as a result.

 

[Micah68]

Yes, we know all about the suffering of the Palestinians, no one would wish that upon anyone- but it is being perpetrated by their own present actions, or at least the actions of their leaders.

Never mind the past; we can't change that- but we can change the future. So put the politics and the religion of the land as a whole aside for now and concentrate on one question:

What will help an ordinary Palestinian family live a better life? A life where they have access to health care, a good job, religious freedom, prosperity, education, peace, security?

To me, the best answer is this:

Allow that family to move to a country like Germany, France, Great Britain, Australia, Canada, or the U.S.A.

Give them free housing for a year, a living allowance, language lessons, and free schooling and health care. My bet is that the vast majority would jump at the chance. And I bet that would cost a lot less than all the armaments and security measures we're presently spending our money on.

And if you don't like that, then here's the second option that the Palestinians have:

Recognize Israel's right to exist, stop all attacks on the country, renounce violence, and embrace the rule of law. Kind of like what Jordan and Egypt have already done, and have prospered from as a result.

Tell me why should Israel's right to exsist be recognized if the Palestinian's own right's and lives are not recognized? You know not what you are talking about as your facts are sorely missing. As far as relocating the indigenious population? Why not volunteer your home and family homes and lands?

http://www.ifamericansknew.com/

 

[Micah68]

The Washington Report of Middle East Affairs is an excellant resource and news of on going events in the Middle East. The Magazine is available in Bookstores and on-line at http://www.wrmea.com/html/faq.htm

The Washington Report is published by the American Educational Trust (AET), a non-profit foundation incorporated in Washington, DC by retired U.S. foreign service officers to provide the American public with balanced and accurate information concerning U.S. relations with Middle Eastern states.
AET's Foreign Policy Committee has included former U.S. ambassadors, government officials, and members of Congress, including the late Democratic Senator J. William Fulbright, and Republican Senator Charles Percy, both former chairmen of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Members of AET's Board of Directors and advisory committees receive no fees for their services.
The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs does not take partisan domestic political positions. As a solution to the Palestinian-Israeli dispute, it endorses U.N. Security Council Resolution 242´s land-for-peace formula, supported by seven successive U.S. presidents. In general, the Washington Report supports Middle East solutions which it judges to be consistent with the charter of the United Nations and traditional American support for human rights, self-determination, and fair play.

 

[Tanakh]

Hello Tanakh,
I can agree up to the point that what essentially makes one a Jew is living like one. Leviticus spells out clearly that not to do so is to be cut off from the people.
However Jews are not the sole decedents of Abraham at all. The promise went through Isaac to Jacob who was the father of the 12 tribes of Israel with Judah being only one.
If you have scripture in the Old Testament(since this is a Christian forum I will use the correct terminology for the context) that shows Jews as the only decedents then by all means show me.
As we all know Jews were declared an important pathway to God as being the line of David but not by virtue of a special relationship to Abraham over the other tribes of Israel.

The covenant is with all the tribes not just Judah as all the tribes are of Abraham.