Dungeons and Dragons

[Oblio]

I think I will read TLoTR this fall.

 

[AureateDawn]

Tolkien > all. Just so you know. LOTR is amazing.

 

[Oblio]

I started to read it in college years ago. Got distracted by girls, drugs, R&R (I was a DJ), and school. Not necessarily in that order

 

[Dust and Ashes]

Some general comments on the other posts here.

It's a little specious to describe criticism of a given phenomenon, be it HP or RPGs, as a call to monastics. Pretty much any call to holiness and away from anything worldly could be described with that broad brush. I don't think even Michael is arguing that we should all go live in monastaries.

So granted, we live in the world, and we enjoy things that are not specifically Christian. But even so, we are called to exercise restraint in what we engage in and to examine whether it is good and profitable.

You misunderstood what I was saying. Not surprising considering how unclear I often am.

In conclusion I would say that we should all constantly hold the things we enjoy under question - as we mature we may learn things that change our perspective - does my engagement/enjoyment of these things please God?

This is what I was trying to say in my typically unclear way. It just seems a bit off to flatly condemn one questionable activity and condone another. That's all I was trying to say.

 

[Guineverelyndy]

Okay... I play MMORGPS and I even play a warlock. There is no correlation between playing that game and my real life. I have no desire to look into the occult, or to talk to demons or even hurt or kill people. I only play that class because I like the way they play the best (damage over time, you can hit multiple targets, etc). Also, when you're playing an RPG, you're playing in character. You don't necessarily make choices according to what YOU would do in that fantasy arena. It's like acting. You make them according to your character. If I remember correctly, there are a lot of writers who like fantasy rpgs because they can use them as a way to flesh out a story and what a character would do in a particular situation.

Also, there is a big difference between playing a wizard in a world that doesn't actually exist and playing a witch in this one. I've never read HP, so I don't know if that fantasy world is set in this world or not. Obviously we know that wizards and witches do not exist in the way they are portrayed in those books. If someone was playing a satanist in an rpg in earth as we know it, I'd be very concerned. Technically, I play an evil character (according to the game), but really, it is what you make of it.

 

[AureateDawn]

Which do you play?

 

[Dust and Ashes]

Probably WoW if she plays a 'lock.

 

[Matrona]

If we compare the worlds described by Tolkien or Lewis and Rowling, we can very easily find things that move Rowling several large steps away from a Christian world view. Should we (ie, do the characters) fear death? What lies beyond it? Do we command powers at our own will or by being granted them by Authority?

The point of the entire Harry Potter series is the exact opposite of everything you're implying that it embodies.

1) Death is nothing to fear. Souls are an extremely important component of the series.

2) Those who love us "never really leave us"; Harry encounters those he has loved and lost at several points in the series, and the continuing bond of love between them helps him succeed when mere magical skill is not enough. You should know this if you read Prisoner of Azkaban.

3) Sacrificial love, particularly between parents and children, is the most powerful force in the universe. Sacrificial love can also conquer death (DING-DING-DING-DING-DING!) in a sense that doesn't eliminate death's reality and presence but robs it of its power.

4) Magic (in the HP universe) is a trait that can be expressed somewhat randomly; although it tends to run in families, one has no control over whether one (or one's children) is magic or not.

 

[Silentchapel]

I refuse to read them because Harry Potter is enrolled in an academy of witchcraft and I don't care what themes one can see in there witchcraft is not something a christian should be reading about.

And there's the crux of the problem.
Yes, there are slackers who cannot separate truth from reality, but blaming it on D&D is to blame as much as we can blame the Bible for Protestantism. D&D is a past time, and like any past time, it can beomce addictive and have bad social impact. I realize I may be projecting too much - I haven't been exposed to a lot of D&D players, but I fail to see what's wrong in saying you cast a non-existant spell at equally non-existant being. If we played real-world campaign and some starts casting spells on his parents and professors, I would be worried.
Not to say that there are RPGs that are worrisome. *cough*Vampire*cough*. But in general - RPGs are what DM makes of them. And while Harry Potter does take place in the real world, I see no problem with it due to the way witchcraft and wizards are depicted.

 

[repentant]

And here I thought Orthodoxy didn't have fundies. =/

Orthodoxy does not have "fundies" just like Islam does not have "radicals"..either you're Orthodox or you're not. Orthodoxy is not a name, it is a way of life..and anyone who reads Harry Potter garbage, or plays Dungeons and Dragons is not LIVING or PRACTICING Orthodoxy..

 

[repentant]

And for all you so called Orthdox who worship Harry Potter, and say none of it is real, why don't you take a look at what the author herself says...

DR: Is there a certain amount of very sophisticated mythology that you're trying to work in here?

JKR: There's - I'm not trying to work it in, but... If you're writing a book that, I mean, I do do a certain amount of research, and folklore is quite important in the books, so where I'm mentioning a creature or a spell, that people used to believe genuinely worked - of course it didn't - but, you know, it's still a very picturesque and a very comical world in some ways - then I will find out exactly what the words were, and I will find out exactly what the characteristics of that creature or ghost was supposed to be. But I hope that that appears seamlessly. Children often, often ask me how much of the magic is in inverted commas "real" in the books in the sense that did anyone ever believe in this? I would say - a rough proportion - about a third of the stuff that crops up is stuff that people genuinely used to believe in Britain. Two thirds of it, though, is my invention.


And here is the audio if you do not believe the words here..

http://wamu.org/audio/dr/99/10/r1991020-13962.ram

 

[rusmeister]

One thing, though, Repentant, even though my sympathies are strongly with you, is that people need to come to these conclusions on their own. In the meantime, if we've said our piece, and people are unwilling to re-examine/consider or if the SF fully understands what they are doing and has OK'd it, then there's not much else you can do (except focus on your own sins).

Again, I agree that a lot of this stuff is highly questionable, and that's part of the problem - as Matrona points out, it is mixed with good stuff. I don't know whether the story of the brownie recipe with the 10 oz of dog poop thrown in gets the point across, but I guess not. Because people find redeeming traits, it doesn't matter what the topic and elements are.
But the fact does remain that if your Bishop, or council of Bishops, hasn't taken a decisive stand on this, then you can't go around treating your stand as if it were Orthodox dogma.

Oh, and yes, as I indicated, I did read "The Prisoner of Azkhaban" (Sirius Black, Ron's rat, yadda yadda).

2 Matrona:
Re: points one and two:
If death is nothing to fear, they sure overreact when it happens. But the real problem is that there is no concept at all of the afterlife; that it is a God-less universe. Tolkien had Iluvatar and the Valar (esp. Elbereth). Lewis had Aslan. Such a secular vision of an afterlife as depicted in HP, even where the existence of people after death is manifested (at best) in support from your loved ones, can hardly be called Christian. It could equally be Islamic.

The point about sacrificial love is good, but again, this idea in general is not specific to Christianity.

re: point 4:
The issue of opponents of HP has never been with the nature of the characters (who they are) but rather with what they do - and all of the noble behavior is mixed with the incantations and personally wielded power, and I say again that there is a fundamental difference between that and power granted by Authority.

A final point is that it is really difficult to deal with RPG's (the participatory form of fantasy) and not be sullied by the demonism, necromancy and other stuff. In other words, it is really hard to play Warcraft 3 and not get through the campaigns without taking the roles of the forces of the Dead and the spirit/demon-commanding elves.

Some people clearly feel that this can be simplified to: "fantasy is one thing; reality - another". Again, to people who feel it's OK to lust after a woman or summon a demon/divining spirit or whatever in your fantasies (this especially applies to participatory fantasy), see the words of Christ I posted above.

 

[repentant]

You are correct rus, but now they can read and hear from the horses mouth that the things in HP are very real things, instead of burying their head in the sand and ignoring it. Allthough I am sure that no one on here has ever seen/heard this before. Maybe it will wake them up. Of course, as seen in the other thread, people still do not want to believe what is right in fron of them..but then again that person was not Orthodox, so who knows..

As far as a dogmatic stance of the EOC, there is a dogmatic stance against witchcraft and the practice of it. The reading of it would apply as well..the "there is no dogma against it, so it is ok" crap is no excuse..

 

[AJB4]

You people are mental (well, not really, but still).

Harry Potter, DnD, Star Wars, it's all fiction. I mean, it's fine to not like them, but accusing people of being "fake Orthodox" for disagreeing with your opinion is utter bull.

 

[repentant]

I will go easy seeing you are 16, but what do you say of JKR admitting that 1/3 of HP is based on really believed witchcraft? Using something real in a fiction setting does not make the whole thing fiction...

Is it ok to watch sex movies just because the sex is fake? Not inappropriate content, but R rated, NC-17 rated movies..

And to be Orthodox is not to engage in activites or pursuits with even the slightest hint of demonic antichristian activities..we all sin, but living a sin is a different matter...I guess we can all become prostitutes, and still be Orthodox?

 

[AJB4]

Orthodoxy does not have "fundies" just like Islam does not have "radicals"..either you're Orthodox or you're not.

Most Muslims are not radicals.

anyone who reads Harry Potter garbage, or plays Dungeons and Dragons is not LIVING or PRACTICING Orthodoxy..

Says who?

 

[repentant]

Most Muslims are not radicals.

The "radical" are the true Muslims according to the Koran..

Says who?

Says the Church about anyone who lives a life of intentional sin..

Like I said before..prostitution anyone?

 

[AJB4]

I will go easy seeing you are 16, but what do you say of JKR admitting that 1/3 of HP is based on really believed witchcraft? Using something real in a fiction setting does not make the whole thing fiction...

Is it ok to watch sex movies just because the sex is fake? Not inappropriate content, but R rated, NC-17 rated movies..

And to be Orthodox is not to engage in activites or pursuits with even the slightest hint of demonic antichristian activities..we all sin, but living a sin is a different matter...I guess we can all become prostitutes, and still be Orthodox?

Once-believed witchcraft (in the dark Middle Ages maybe), no longer believed, so it doesn't matter anymore.

Just wondering, what do you think of Shakespeare's "Macbeth". The witches in that use spells that people once thought were real...do you have the same opinion about that.

 

[AJB4]

The "radical" are the true Muslims according to the Koran..

According to one interpretation of the Koran. Ask any Muslim on this website.

Says the Church about anyone who lives a life of intentional sin..

Like I said before..prostitution anyone?

But who said it's a sin to enjoy fiction fantasy?

 

[repentant]

Once-believed witchcraft (in the dark Middle Ages maybe), no longer believed, so it doesn't matter anymore.

So witchcraft is not practiced anymore?

Just wondering, what do you think of Shakespeare's "Macbeth". The witches in that use spells that people once thought were real...do you have the same opinion about that.

Do not know how true that is, but there is a BIG difference. HP and his friends are seen as heroes using their magic as an easy way out. Macbeth is not something intended for children, nor has it caused children to recite the evil within it.

According to one interpretation of the Koran. Ask any Muslim on this website.

That's because Muslims would not want to admit it. Read the Koran for yourself, forget what they say..there is no diffrence of interpretations for verses that say to make war against Christians and Jews, or any other infadel unbeliever..

But who said it's a sin to enjoy fiction fantasy?

To enjoy known real satanic garbage is a sin..

Listen, you are young and are not even Orthodox. You still have much to learn.