Atheists do not deny a God exists.

[tanzanos]

I am a registered Republican... it has nothing to do with anything except politics. It only means I feel more confident in getting decent government from one side of the corrupt jerks than the other. I haven't heard a Democrat I could trust (now that Leiberman left the party) since Scoop.

Hmm! Republican, Creationist, Pro capital punishment. pro gun? This rings a bell somewhere.

 

[MaynardGKrebbs]

Really? You studies the same history I did... what is the basis for a master race, then? What makes The Roma and Jews inferior?

According to Hitler, his basis for what made the Jews inferior was Christianity. As he said in this statement from Mein Kampf:

"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."

Hitler was unsophisticated when it came to science, his claim of Arayan superiority wasn't based on Darwin or the theory of evolution. His belief in Arayan superiority is firmly based on his interpretation of the bible.

 

[MarcusHill]

Have you noticed that when you take God off the throne, then anything you put in His place becomes your idol?

The problem with this argument is that not only do I not believe there is a god, I don't believe there is a throne.

 

[KCDAD]

Hmm! Republican, Creationist, Pro capital punishment. pro gun? This rings a bell somewhere.

Having a brain fart? Or is this going somewhere?

 

[KCDAD]

According to Hitler, his basis for what made the Jews inferior was Christianity. As he said in this statement from Mein Kampf:

"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."

Hitler was unsophisticated when it came to science, his claim of Arayan superiority wasn't based on Darwin or the theory of evolution. His belief in Arayan superiority is firmly based on his interpretation of the bible.

And that line implies Christianity to you? I am really concerned as to how you could infer Christianity out of that statement?

 

[KCDAD]

The problem with this argument is that not only do I not believe there is a god, I don't believe there is a throne.

The problem with your statement is that there is nothing you find more important than you.

 

[MarcusHill]

The problem with your statement is that there is nothing you find more important than you.

How so? The fact that I don't think there is anything that I should worship has no bearing on whether I think anything is more important than I am.

 

[MaynardGKrebbs]

And that line implies Christianity to you? I am really concerned as to how you could infer Christianity out of that statement?

Hitler certainly did, this is what was being taught by the christians in Germany at the time.

But you're avoiding my point. Evolution and natural selection had nothing to do with Hitler's claims of Arayan superiority. It was based on Hitler's interpretation of the Bible.

So my question to you is, what history were you studying when you made the inaccurate claim that the theory of evolution lead to the idea of superior races of man? And if you studied history, why didn't you know that Hitler based the notion of the master race on the bible?

 

[FishFace]

How can you just lie and not have little smilies and lols all over the post? I posted at least twice the Columbia University definition and others that are specific about the difference between theism, deism and other god beliefs. What definitions are you posting from? AtheistsRus.com?

You posted two definitions, I posted all of those from www.dictionary.com, www.thefreedictionary.com and wikipedia.org.

See? Look! The first definition on this list is yours, the second is mine! How is this so difficult to grasp?

Theism means belief in a personal interceding God. It is not deisim and is not pantheism... do you think they just make up words to make you happy? "We have a perfect word that means nothing so lets create other words that mean the same thing... er the same lack of something." That is probably why you are an atheist... because you think people are just ignorant superstitious morons if they use words you don't understand.

I'm guessing you never actually bothered to go to the links, last time I posted them. Well, perhaps you should go this time - definition 1 is "theism ... as opposed to deism," and definition 2 is "theism ... as opposed to atheism."

Good grief, are we really still talking about this.

 

[FishFace]

Because you think everyone is as closed minded as you are... I never implied that theists are 100% right about anything... in fact, if you go back you will see that I don't consider myself much of a theist. I think God, whether you call Zeus, Odin, Osiris, Jupiter, Allah, YHWH, The Great Spirit or Bob, is the same God...

YOU'VE SAID THAT ALREADY.

But you've not told us how you can reconcile, "God of Lightning" with "God of everything," or a God who has a physical form like the ancient pantheons with one who is immaterial and infinite like the God of classical theism. You have not explained how a personal God can be the same God as "Order out of Chaos." This is the whole problem that thaumaturgy and I have been trying to show you - you don't end up with "God," you end up with a useless, self-contradictory ball of mess.

In stark contrast to your original claim that differing concepts make God a more likely possibility.

we see God through our language constructs, culture, environment and traditions... so they are all gonna appear differently.

Yes, they would appear differently. But if God really existed, they would not appear inter-contradictory!

 

[FishFace]

No confusion... no creation, no morality. If it is all survival of the fittest, if it all natural selection, morality has no place and is in fact counter productive to the well being of the species.

You have committed the is/ought fallacy. "The fittest survive" does not imply "The fittest ought to survive."

(Before you get all high and mighty about this ... realize that I just spoke for Herbert Spencer and all the other Social Biologists that tried to put Darwins theory to governmental policies 100 years ago. Those same theory that lead to the idea of superior races of man)

Yes, I know about the idiocies of Social Darwinism, but quite obviously it did not produce a better state of affairs. That's partly because of short-sightedness and prejudice, but more to do with the is/ought gap.

Perhaps you should learn some moral philosophy before you go raving on about how there are no morals without God - because people have been studying the question for longer than you.

 

[FishFace]

So all atheists agree now? ALL ? Apparently not.

Nonsense, the majority agree. Any atheist who's actually thought about it should realise that, at its core, the word atheism means lack of belief in God. That includes all kinds of atheists.

How could they agree... you keep telling me and others keep telling me there is nothing to agree upon... a rock is an atheist, a baby is an atheist, Sam Harris is an atheist, Socrates was an atheist, Thomas Jefferson was an atheist, Mickey Mouse is an atheist... Voltaire, Hume, Kant, Spinoza, Marx, Einstein, Hawking... even me! Great! Everybody is an atheist ... wait a minute... you got me as both an atheist and a theist... how does that work?

Do you believe in God? Once you've answered that question you can answer the question of whether you're an atheist or not.

I know.. I am a weak theist and strong atheist... right?

Stop trolling.

 

[The Bellman]

If it is all survival of the fittest, if it all natural selection, morality has no place and is in fact counter productive to the well being of the species.

Yup. Isn't it a good thing that it's not true that it is ALL survival of the fittest and natural selection?

So all atheists agree now? ALL ? Apparently not. How could they agree... you keep telling me and others keep telling me there is nothing to agree upon... a rock is an atheist, a baby is an atheist, Sam Harris is an atheist, Socrates was an atheist, Thomas Jefferson was an atheist, Mickey Mouse is an atheist... Voltaire, Hume, Kant, Spinoza, Marx, Einstein, Hawking... even me! Great! Everybody is an atheist ... wait a minute... you got me as both an atheist and a theist... how does that work?

I know.. I am a weak theist and strong atheist... right?

This is just laughable. An atheist is someone who lacks belief in any gods. Why is that so hard for you to understand? You're not an atheist, because you believe in a god. Why must you constantly spout garbage like the above?

 

[MarcusHill]

But you've not told us how you can reconcile, "God of Lightning" with "God of everything," or a God who has a physical form like the ancient pantheons with one who is immaterial and infinite like the God of classical theism. You have not explained how a personal God can be the same God as "Order out of Chaos." This is the whole problem that thaumaturgy and I have been trying to show you - you don't end up with "God," you end up with a useless, self-contradictory ball of mess.

TBF, you could say that there is a numinous God-concept that has been variously described, but that these descriptions are all somewhat inaccurate and rendered through the cultural lens of the person describing it.

 

[FishFace]

TBF, you could say that there is a numinous God-concept that has been variously described, but that these descriptions are all somewhat inaccurate and rendered through the cultural lens of the person describing it.

Sure, but then you're (or rather, KCDAD's) still stuck, because his implication was that people who believed in XYZ deity were all correct. But if they don't believe in such a vague concept, then they're not.

 

[tanzanos]

Having a brain fart? Or is this going somewhere?

There we have it gentlemen: KCDAD has just responded like a true American Christian.

 

[thaumaturgy]

Really? You studies the same history I did... what is the basis for a master race, then? What makes The Roma and Jews inferior?

Oh, let's see! Who said anything about Jews being inferior? Why it was HITLER! Here's some of Hitler's quotes!

"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." Mein Kampf

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth!" -Munich on 12 April 1922

Sorry, put your goof-ball analogy for Social Darwinism away. (SD, which by every account has been pretty-well repudiated for the past, oh, 50 to 60 years). If you want to erect strawmen, don't give US the matches.

Try again! This time, check your facts. You might have to hit more than the dictionary this time 'round.

 

[thaumaturgy]

TBF, you could say that there is a numinous God-concept that has been variously described, but that these descriptions are all somewhat inaccurate and rendered through the cultural lens of the person describing it.

Indeed. I think KCDAD's theology is effectively useless because he has posited a nearly unfalsifiable concept in its purest form.

It is as if I were to claim a "thingingness" exists and it is whatever is not impossible to exist. Now that thiningness is obviously possible or it would be impossible which would make it non-thinging, and therefore fall out of my definition.

KCDAD has danced around the concept and then unilaterally decreed that Atheists are obviously wrong because we don't believe in this thingingness which is just absurd because we are battling against something that by definition cannot exist.

Of course this thingingness is absolutely useless for any real meaning since it lacks any definition except that it simply must exist.

As Kant pointed out existence is not predicate.

I would say it is yet another example of KCDAD's failure to debate philosophy here but he's got so many of those it's just another droplet in the ocean.

 

[FishFace]

As Kant pointed out existence is not predicate.

I would say it is yet another example of KCDAD's failure to debate philosophy here but he's got so many of those it's just another droplet in the ocean.

Most appear to be concentrated in currently active threads, too - time does not exist (because I can mangle the English language), atheists are immoral (because I can't understand morality without God) atheism is inconsistent (because I don't understand how a word can have a generalised meaning) and everyone's God is the same (because I don't understand how taking common elements of all deities leaves nothing behind)

 

[Tomk80]

Regarding the Hitler discussion, I think it is necessary to mention two things:

1. The idea of jewish inferiority was well-spread in Europe at that time. It was specifically well-spread in eastern European countries such as Poland, where catholicism was particularly strong. The anti-jewish attitude definitely came directly from christianity, where jews had gained this because of their "killing of christ".

2. Hitler's writings are in my opinion ambiguous when it comes
to whether he was a christian or not. He may well have used christianity as a tool to gain power, for example to gain the support of the pope. His frequent appeals to a higher power do, however, imply that he was a theist. Regardless, his outcasting of the jews would have been a lot harder, if not impossible, if the jews were not already made outcast by the christians of that time. Furthermore the christian outcasting of jews likely was the inspiration, if not direct cause, of his own attitude towards them.