[Open] Question about Nasraya Mshikhani

[ChavaK]

Not knowing anything about and never having heard of
Nasraya Mshikhani, I checked them out on the web:

http://www.nestorian.net/guardians/index.php

www.churchofjerusalem.org

www.mshikhanim.org

I am going to with hold making any comments but
am wondering what messianics think of this group?

 

[debi b]

www.mshikhanim.org

I am going to with hold making any comments but
am wondering what messianics think of this group?

From the above group I found this interesting:

We believe that Yeshua is the Son of Alaha (Alaha is the Aramaic equivelant of Elohim), that Yeshua is Yahweh!

Italic is mine

 

[Hadassah]

This was created from our Questions thread.

Sorry this is so late girls

 

[ChavaK]

From the above group I found this interesting:



Italic is mine

So do you disagree with this belief?

 

[debi b]

If you are asking whether I agree with the belief that they have that Yeshua is Hashem my answer is yes I agree.

 

[visionary]

As the website said....

Yerushalayim, a religious order of Nasraya Mshikhanim dedicated to the Support and defense of the Apostolic Throne, the Holy See, of Jerusalem, and the Sacred Pillars of the Nasraya Mshikhani Faith.

as quoted from another section of that same website...

The single minded goal is to establish and maintain the Mshikhanuth, a righteous nation of Jews and goyim all equal in the eyes of Mar-Yah, that bow their knee in reverence to the Holy See of Yerushalayim wherever they are in the world.

and what they say about themselves speaks for them..

The Guardians of Yerushalayim believe in complete loyalty to the teachings of the Holy Church, for what is Faith if there is no "Loyalty to God"?

singleness of mind and spirit is their faith...

They view their loyalty to the Holy Church as they view their loyalty and obedience to Mshikha Himself. The Guardian will see no division in the will and intentions of the Church and the will of Mar-Yah. That they are one and the same.

I would like to know more about who or what is their Holy See....

This part is also interesting about their faith...

That Guardians shall fast on the Wednesdays in remembrance of the Lord's Passion and Crucifixion. That we honor the Fast on Friday as the preparation day for the Holy Shabbat. Never fasting either on the Sabbath itself, nor on the Lord's Day as this is forbidden to us. We honor all the fasts as prescribed by the teachings of the Holy Church of Yerushalayim.

Guardians will Faithfully Observe Jewish Holidays as Proscribed by the Holy Church of Yerushalayim, in tandem with Traditional Judeo-Christians Feast Days and Fast Days.

Guardians hold to the Christianity as understood and interpreted by the Semitic Church of Mshikha, Shlikhim and the talmidim and all those in the Nestorian Church who have faithfully held this standard to this very day. Guardians will observe all Jewish observances as taught by the Holy Church. Guardians know that in truth, there is only one faith and the Church of Yerushalayim is the center point of this faith of Judeo-Christianity.

Yet they also say this..

Where the Shabbat is the day of Holy Observance, the day of rest as prescribed by the The Holy Peshitta, and is the day of worship, the 1st day, called the Lord 's Day. This is the day where all can fellowship and learn about our glorious Faith. Learning from the wisdom of the Holy Church.

I honestly do not enough about them to make any comment on their faith. What I have read, causes me to have more questions, and with questions no solid concensus as to what to think regarding them. They do have some good points...

Guardians must never tolerate the notion of a non-semitic Church, in truth; there is no Church outside the House of Israel. No believer can seek salvation from Israel's Mshikha, without taking on the Yoke of the children of Israel. This is implicit.

 

[debi b]

The only thing I am commenting on is that they have made the connection that Mar-yah ayrm is the Aramaic equivelant of Hashem.

So, from the Peshitta this is how Philippians 2:11 reads;

"and every tongue should confess that Mar-yah he is Yeshua the Messiah"

I find this very interesting

 

[Charles YTK]

I believe from reading at the site that the "Holy See", is the current heir to the "Throne of Yaacov" the brother of Yeshua who was the bishop of the Jerusalem Church from the beginning. They believe that whoever holds this position is annointed by God in the same way the Cathlics feel that the Pope is an annointed holy see in the line of Kepha (Peter). It is a sort of apostolic succession.

This is my impression and I will accept correction if I am wrong.

 

[Mshikhani]

Shalom B'Mshikha,
I am willing to answer any questions anyone might have on the Church of Jerusalem.

Also, I would like to point out that the Guardians of Yerushalayim are an order within the Nasraya Meshikhanim, and therefore may have some specific set of practices that are peculiar to them.

As for Visionary's question, the Holy See is the Throne of Mar Ya'akov. The Throne of Mar Ya'akov is the leadership of the Body of Mshikha on earth. In Acts 15 we see that Mar Ya'akov Ha'Tzadik, the brother of Mshikha, was the leader of the Nesarim (aka Nasraya Mshikhanim). Such leadership has always remained with Shemishqo - that is, the descendants of Miriyan and Yoseph, brothers of Yeshua Mshikha.

In 135AD, with the destruction of Jerusalem, the Beit Knushta (governing body) of the Nesarim reallocated to the far east, establishing themselves in Burma.

The Shemishqo later returned to Jerusalem, where they have been living ever since. The Throne of Mar Ya'akov continues to be occupied by Yeshua's next-of-kin to this very day. The Church is governed by three institutions: the Beit Knushta (Holy Assembly), the Throne of Ya'akov (ie. the leader of the apostles) and the Seat of Moshah (presidency of the body of Israel).


Hope this helps!

In the love of Mar-Yah,
Mshikhani

 

[Mshikhani]

Charles,
Shalom!
There is a great difference between the Roman Pontifex Maximus and the Rosh Avkadmon of the Church of Jerusalem. The organization of the Church of Jerusalem has been the same since the first century. Please see my other post for further information.

In Mshikha's great lovingkindness,
Mshikhani

I believe from reading at the site that the "Holy See", is the current heir to the "Throne of Yaacov" the brother of Yeshua who was the bishop of the Jerusalem Church from the beginning. They believe that whoever holds this position is annointed by God in the same way the Cathlics feel that the Pope is an annointed holy see in the line of Kepha (Peter). It is a sort of apostolic succession.

This is my impression and I will accept correction if I am wrong.

 

[Aviva]

Shalom B'Mshikha,
I am willing to answer any questions anyone might have on the Church of Jerusalem.

Also, I would like to point out that the Guardians of Yerushalayim are an order within the Nasraya Meshikhanim, and therefore may have some specific set of practices that are peculiar to them.

As for Visionary's question, the Holy See is the Throne of Mar Ya'akov. The Throne of Mar Ya'akov is the leadership of the Body of Mshikha on earth. In Acts 15 we see that Mar Ya'akov Ha'Tzadik, the brother of Mshikha, was the leader of the Nesarim (aka Nasraya Mshikhanim). Such leadership has always remained with Shemishqo - that is, the descendants of Miriyan and Yoseph, brothers of Yeshua Mshikha.

In 135AD, with the destruction of Jerusalem, the Beit Knushta (governing body) of the Nesarim reallocated to the far east, establishing themselves in Burma.

The Shemishqo later returned to Jerusalem, where they have been living ever since. The Throne of Mar Ya'akov continues to be occupied by Yeshua's next-of-kin to this very day. The Church is governed by three institutions: the Beit Knushta (Holy Assembly), the Throne of Ya'akov (ie. the leader of the apostles) and the Seat of Moshah (presidency of the body of Israel).


Hope this helps!

In the love of Mar-Yah,
Mshikhani

Thanks for the explanation, I just scanned it
quickly but was left with a first look impressionn
thata it was a Catholic version of messianics.

 

[Charles YTK]

Charles,
Shalom!
There is a great difference between the Roman Pontifex Maximus and the Rosh Avkadmon of the Church of Jerusalem. The organization of the Church of Jerusalem has been the same since the first century. Please see my other post for further information.

In Mshikha's great lovingkindness,
Mshikhani

Yes I understand that thanks and agree totally. I was using a parallel of terms to show how the continuance of Yaacovs throne is viewed. You are in a better position to explain these things in regard to your own faith.

Sorry if I misrepresented anything.

I would be interested to see the evidence of this continuous line from Jerusalem, as the Rome church also claims the same thing. Although I do not accept thier story at all as it is totally without merit. (In my opinion). Even the idea tha Kepha was a key figure in Rome is difficult. In fact his ostuary box and grave was found on Mount olives a number of years back if I recall, or at least a man buried with honor and bearing the same name Kepha Bar Jonah.

 

[visionary]

Then why sunday keeping?

Where the Shabbat is the day of Holy Observance, the day of rest as prescribed by the The Holy Peshitta, and is the day of worship, the 1st day, called the Lord 's Day. This is the day where all can fellowship and learn about our glorious Faith. Learning from the wisdom of the Holy Church.

 

[visionary]

The Mother of Maran Yeshua the Messiah is called "Blessed" in the Holy Scriptures (see Luke 1:46-55). Mshikhanim believe that Marta Miriam should be honored as the Mother of our Lord and Messiah and that she, like the angels and Saints, makes intercession in behalf of the faithful before the Lord. "He makes his angels winds, his servants flames of fire" (Hebrews 1:7, NIV; See also Sacred Articles of the Church of Yerushalayim).

that there is catholism..

 

[visionary]

as to which branch of the faith tree this synod branches from...http://www.churchofjerusalem.org/apostolic_doctrine/

Baptism of Infants to symbolize Holy Dedication. (Luke 2:22-40; John 3:5)

That the Holy Spirit is received through the Mystery of Holy Chrisma when anointed with Holy Myron (I John 2:20,27).

That our sins are forgiven by God through Confession of Sins to Yeshua the Messiah and privately to the presbyter (Matthew 18:18).

That in the Holy Eucharist there is the Real Presence of our Lord's Body and Blood (Matthew 26:26-28; I Corinthians 10:16).

The elements of bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Messiah after Calling on the Holy Spirit (generally referred to as the Epiclesis) . (John 6:22-69)

That the sick and dying should be administered Holy Unction (James 5:14-15).

 

[Mshikhani]

We don't keep Sunday, we keep the Shabbat. We honor the first day because it is when Mshikha rose from the dead, but we don't replace the Shabbat with Sunday keeping. Sunday is seen as a day for fellowship, whereas the Shabbat is the appointed day of rest.

Mshikhani

Then why sunday keeping?

 

[Mshikhani]

We are Catholic, in the sense that we are the Universal Body of the Nasray. We are not Roman Catholic, neither Orthodox Catholic though.

Why do you say: 'the line is drawn'? I don't understand why we, a Church that has existed for 2 millennia, need to follow Protestant theology.

In Mshikha's love,
Mshikhani.

that there is catholism..

 

[Mshikhani]

What is it that you are suggesting, Visionary? Is Roman Catholicism the only form of Catholicism you are familiar with?

The Church of Jerusalem has been around since the first century, and in fact in 318DC we excommunicated Rome for their lack of submission to the Beit Knushta, and Torahless theology.

In His Grace,
Mshikhani

as to which branch of the faith tree this synod branches from...http://www.churchofjerusalem.org/apostolic_doctrine/

 

[visionary]

We are Catholic, in the sense that we are the Universal Body of the Nasray. We are not Roman Catholic, neither Orthodox Catholic though.

Why do you say: 'the line is drawn'? I don't understand why we, a Church that has existed for 2 millennia, need to follow Protestant theology.

In Mshikha's love,
Mshikhani.

It is the difference between Juadism vs Catholism that I was referring to.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

It is the difference between Juadism vs Catholism that I was referring to.

Yeah I'm trying to grasp what their beliefs are myself.

Normally I like to read 'Statement of Faith' to get a general idea.

Marc