How to lower abortion rates

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PinkTulip

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Well no, I don't think you could... it isn't possible to misscarry before a zygote implants in the uterine wall...

but my question about natural pregnancy... the hormones released during pregnancy stop any futher fertilised eggs implanting in the uterine wall... and exactly the same thing happens with artificial hormonal contraceptives... so i want to know why one is considered an "evil abortifacient contraceptive" and the other perfectly natural and normal, when we are talking about precisely the same phenomenon
Someone else can probably speak about this better than me. With the pill, an egg can be released (it is not supposed to work this way) and fertilized. However, the uterine wall will not allow it to implant. This is where they get the term. With pregnancy, an egg will not be released. I found this:

http://www.pfli.org/faq_oc.html
 
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rehcjam

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Dude, the divine right of King's concept is pretty outdated.Thats because those people want cute little babies... they are far less prepared to take in a young person from their own country who already has some issues, but they are usually the ones that need help.

It is only as outdated as the Scriptures.

(Romans 13:4) For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
 
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rehcjam

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Well, seems to be what some people are advocating by saying that women shouldn't be allowed to use contraception OR abortion, and that it might teach them to keep their legs together.

Children are a gift and a blessing from God.

(Psalms 127:3) Lo, children are a heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
 
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rehcjam

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I'm not sure what you are asking. People who claim the pill is an hormonal abortifacient claim it kills a life because the pill causes a fertilized egg to not implant. I guess you could call it an artificial miscarriage? :)

According to that logic you could call any abortion an "artificial miscarriage".
 
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rehcjam

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All that will do is INCREASE the number of abortions, not decrease it. I believe most abortions are done because the mother does not know what to do with a unwanted pregnancy.

I applaud those persons and organizations who are showing compassion to mothers faced with an unwanted pregnancy. If we make this a public policy issue, I would hope governmental agencies would do the same thing.

Abortions happen because people are sinful and the law does not protect the unborn child.

(Ecclesiastes 8:11) Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.
 
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rehcjam

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Promoting chastity 'till marriage is something you can do inside the church and at your home, is not something the governament can do, expecially not in school, and i'm actually really shocked that it happens in America: it's brain-washing, it's propaganda.
What is ethical and right for christians (most of them) is not the same for a lot of other people: there are people who belive that sex is not only for procreation, that is fine for unwed people to have it ect, ect... and you can't want them to think what you think.
What you're are talking about is idoctrination, it's what happens in theocracies.
The countries of Europe and the US are laic countries and what represents laicism is that sin and crime are 2 different things.

A sin and a crime are two different things. All crimes are sins but not all sins are crimes. For instance we can't judge a persons heart, but we can judge that persons actions. Sins like lust or coveting often lead to crimes.
All good law is moral law like outlawing murder or theft. The same with laws against sex crimes like rape, adultery, homosexuality or premarital sex. These crimes are all very destructive and should be outlawed and up until recently they were.
 
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rehcjam

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There is some stuff being done, but it is mostly misrepresentation among the governments themselves to the people (i.e, governments telling the people that onions can cure AIDS). The issue is not just condoms, because how do you tell married women to use condoms? It is political, economical and cultural as you said. It is not until people actually start caring, advocating for more trade with Africa, removing economic barriers with the Word Bank (evil) and working with the governments and the African media to promote accurate sex education. In Africa there is only 4 condoms per male. I guess they can only have sex 4 times a year!

What works is abstinence. Period, easy, simple, that is the answer but instead we treat people as if we don't expect them to act like human beings but instead animals. Teaching children how to have sex does not work. People become child sex advocates when they do that and STD's, abortions and unplanned pregnancies go on the rise.

Condoms do not protect against STD's and even with pregnancies they have a high rate of failure.
 
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rehcjam

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Well no, I don't think you could... it isn't possible to misscarry before a zygote implants in the uterine wall...

but my question about natural pregnancy... the hormones released during pregnancy stop any futher fertilised eggs implanting in the uterine wall... and exactly the same thing happens with artificial hormonal contraceptives... so i want to know why one is considered an "evil abortifacient contraceptive" and the other perfectly natural and normal, when we are talking about precisely the same phenomenon

Bodies produce cancer cells but it would be wrong to induce the the growth of cancer cells and then say, "i want to know why one is considered an "evil cancer cell" and the other perfectly natural and normal" as if we really don't know the difference.
 
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rehcjam

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Thats because those people want cute little babies... they are far less prepared to take in a young person from their own country who already has some issues, but they are usually the ones that need help.

Again, people wait years and have to go to other countries to adopt (babies, right, that is what we are talking about, unless you are advocating the murder of older children). I doubt that American babies are any less cute than foreign ones and the children that do have problems that are still young enough to be murdered under law are extremely few by percentage.
 
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EnemyPartyII

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Bodies produce cancer cells but it would be wrong to induce the the growth of cancer cells and then say, "i want to know why one is considered an "evil cancer cell" and the other perfectly natural and normal" as if we really don't know the difference.
This is a total red herring.

inducing cancer in somone would, presumeably, not occur with informed consent. Abortion does. Therefore your comparison is invalid.
 
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That is not Biblical at all.
The people should fear the government- they don't bare the sword in vain. Authority flows down not up. The rulers are appointed by God as ministers of God to punish evildoers.

No, but it is American and it is right. Government should fear it's people, not the other way around. Anything else is facism.

The pill is considered to be one because it does not allow a fertilized egg (if sperm reaches one) to impant.

Facts disagree. You are not "pregnant" until the fertilied eggs attached itself to the overy. The pill does not cause abortions.

It is only as outdated as the Scriptures.

Plenty of them are outdated as well.

All good law is moral law like outlawing murder or theft. The same with laws against sex crimes like rape, adultery, homosexuality or premarital sex. These crimes are all very destructive and should be outlawed and up until recently they were.

Barring rape, and pedophilia, which are not consensual, the government has abosolutely no place dictating how people may or may not have sex, or when they can have sex, or who they can have sex with.

What works is abstinence. Period, easy, simple, that is the answer but instead we treat people as if we don't expect them to act like human beings but instead animals. Teaching children how to have sex does not work. People become child sex advocates when they do that and STD's, abortions and unplanned pregnancies go on the rise.

Abstinence doesn't work so much if you're raped, but that's beside the point. It's ludacris to expect everyone in America to hold to your moral standard, and what we think be damned. Abstinence education is the reason why teen pregnancies are on the rise, because of failed Christianist political policies.

Condoms do not protect against STD's and even with pregnancies they have a high rate of failure.

Yea, 2% is a real high failure rate. Tell me, is lying for God not a sin?
 
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freyajem

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What works is abstinence. Period, easy, simple, that is the answer but instead we treat people as if we don't expect them to act like human beings but instead animals. Teaching children how to have sex does not work. People become child sex advocates when they do that and STD's, abortions and unplanned pregnancies go on the rise.

Condoms do not protect against STD's and even with pregnancies they have a high rate of failure.

LOL...abstinence...LOL. That is funny. You can't teach kids abstinence unless the adults practice abstinence. And we all know the adults don't do abstinence. One can only teach through their own behaviour. We live in a sex crazed world. I am separated but married, live alone and just playing on my computer, inappropriate content pops up any time.....imagine, when looking for a bunny card....who'd guess.

I figure you don't clean up sex from the kids up. You clean it up from the adults down.
 
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freyajem

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Children are a gift and a blessing from God.

(Psalms 127:3) Lo, children are a heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

Tell that to a woman pregnant and dying with her 14th child.

Or tell it to a child unwanted and unloved by its mother.

It happens.
 
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Lisa0315

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Tell that to a woman pregnant and dying with her 14th child.

Or tell it to a child unwanted and unloved by its mother.

It happens.

Alot of things happen in a fallen world. That does not mean that God desires mothers to kill their children.

Lisa
 
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freyajem

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Alot of things happen in a fallen world. That does not mean that God desires mothers to kill their children.

Lisa

Ooooops, you're right Lisa.

I was just talking about contraceptives, or so I thought.....maybe not. I suppose abortion and contraceptives can be placed in the same ball court. With a contraceptive that doesn't destroy life that has already begun, but prevents sperm and egg from meeting.....well then I figure an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
 
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Lisa0315

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Ooooops, you're right Lisa.

I was just talking about contraceptives, or so I thought.....maybe not. I suppose abortion and contraceptives can be placed in the same ball court. With a contraceptive that doesn't destroy life that has already begun, but prevents sperm and egg from meeting.....well then I figure an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Well, I have changed my mind about contraceptives. Easy for me to say now...

Lisa
 
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Lisa0315

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How have you changed your mind about contraceptives? Is private and no need to answer. I was just wondering what reference that had to my words?:wave:

Well, when I became a Christian, my personal view of contraception changed along with my personal view of abortion. I could not honestly say that one was wrong but the other was okay, because in effect, they are both prohibiting the will of God. If children are a gift from God, then, by contracepting, we are in a way aborting our future children. If we truly trust in the Lord, then, we would accept whatever children God gives to us. Abstinance, in the form of agreeing to instead worship God together is the only form of Godly contraception. I realize how Catholic this sounds, but it came from a deep place in my heart long before I ever started talking with Catholics here on this board.

As I said, very easy for me to say now, considering I made pregnancy impossible when I was 26.

I hope no one argues with this or condemns my view. It is just my personal opinion. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything, only better explaining what I said to you, Freyajem.

Lisa
 
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freyajem

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Well, when I became a Christian, my personal view of contraception changed along with my personal view of abortion. I could not honestly say that one was wrong but the other was okay, because in effect, they are both prohibiting the will of God. If children are a gift from God, then, by contracepting, we are in a way aborting our future children. If we truly trust in the Lord, then, we would accept whatever children God gives to us. Abstinance, in the form of agreeing to instead worship God together is the only form of Godly contraception. I realize how Catholic this sounds, but it came from a deep place in my heart long before I ever started talking with Catholics here on this board.

As I said, very easy for me to say now, considering I made pregnancy impossible when I was 26.

I hope no one argues with this or condemns my view. It is just my personal opinion. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything, only better explaining what I said to you, Freyajem.

Lisa

I certainly don't condemn you or anybody. I had my tubes tied after I had two children and went into deep depression after the second. I personally think that we cannot in our frail form, interrupt God's work. I had a friend who had her tubes tied and she had another baby. If God chooses for us to be pregnant, we will be and there is nothing we can do to stop it.

But then, that is just my opinion.

I have since read about many other women who have gotten pregnant despite tied tubes, the pill, whatever. There are even women who swear they never had intercourse but they are pregnant. God's will prevails no matter what we do. How is it that we think we can outwit God? Can't be done. But we can sin by trying.:wave:

to edit: but God will forgive our sin if we repent truly to not do again. Thank God for forgiveness.
 
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