Is homosexual “love” immoral?

[Krete]

i should also point out that gays have sex anally much more
than straights and that is a proven risk factor for HIV, especially
when having dozens of partners.

Can I see evidence of this not just being another form of fluid transmission? I.E., how is anal sex specifically a risk factor beyond that of unprotected sex?

 

[chnchris]

Too long, didn't read.

I suspect it's just the usual christian tripe. Jeez, you guys get so wound up about homosexuality it's almost as if you're completely fascinated by it. Makes me wonder sometimes if there's a whole lot of christians out there with the urge to "get gay" and are just trying to fight it off. Like Lord_Marx said, I don't even think about homosexuality as much as these guys do and I loves me some gay pron just about every day

As a Christian we are required to spread the Truth as revealed
by God and His Church. And also as a Christian we expect to
be persecuted for doing it. We do it out of love, not hate.

 

[chnchris]

Yup! Sounds like my marriage! (And to raise our children to be wonderful, thoughful, productive, caring members of society.

Big difference, you can have children.

 

[Krete]

And also as a Christian we expect to
be persecuted for doing it.

Just how much have you been persecuted? I really would like to know...

We do it out of love, not hate.

Hmm, does that love include sex? If not, what's the point of all the AIDS statistics? Seems love does not have to equal sex...

Big difference, you can have children.

The old "marriage is purely for procreation" bit again? What about infertile couples? Can gays not adopt?

 

[seebs]

The topic is about homosexuals having larger % and #s of
HIV/AIDS. My vices and those of heteros are irrelevant to
the topic. Perhaps you'd like to start a separate topic.

It's probably true that the infection rate is higher in gays than in straights in the US. Total numbers are a tougher sell.

The world leadership, though, is clearly with straights in countries where birth control is frowned upon; one large institution told people in Africa that condoms caused AIDS, and infection rates in some parts of Africa are in excess of 20-30% of the straight population -- which is to say, more than ten times the total gay population, let alone the infected population.

This is a serious problem which could cause catastrophic die-offs and collapse of infrastructure affecting numbers of people well in excess of the total population of the US.

It seems to me that, right around now, what's needed is less finger-pointing at what may have happened in the 1980s, and more attempts to deal with the current major means of transmission.

Ironically, the belief that gayness of sex is a significant factor has greatly increased the transmission rate among straights, who have been given the impression (indirectly) that they are at a very low risk.

 

[chnchris]

17%+34%+2%=53%
You were saying?

These stats are for only 33 states and do not include
California, do i need to say what that would do to the
#s?! Also, most likely many heterosexuals also had
gay contact; so these #s are not a true picture.

Besides, it really doesn't matter what i say about
homosexuality on here, those who are opposed are
either gay or non-Christians and have not the Holy
Spirit in their lives. So sad.

Lord have mercy.

 

[chnchris]

Except that, of course, He never says any such thing.

One more time for you:

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it.” (Gen 1:27-28)


So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. The man said, “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.” For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. (Gen 2:21-24)

Jesus reaffirms the sacrament of marriage in the NT:


And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? “So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” (Mt 19:4-6)

 

[Krete]

These stats are for only 33 states and do not include
California, do i need to say what that would do to the
#s?!

http://www.avert.org/usastatg.htm
Looks like both in 2005 and in total, Heterosexual causes are greater

Also, most likely many heterosexuals also had
gay contact; so these #s are not a true picture.

What now?

Besides, it really doesn't matter what i say about
homosexuality on here, those who are opposed are
either gay or non-Christians and have not the Holy
Spirit in their lives. So sad.

I know a good bit of straight, Christian (mostly Catholic, so don't bring that up) friends who find nothing wrong with homosexuality.

Oh, and for future reference, I'm straight.

 

[Asimov]

Besides, it really doesn't matter what i say about
homosexuality on here, those who are opposed are
either gay or non-Christians and have not the Holy
Spirit in their lives. So sad.

Lord have mercy.

Please, your statistics only support the idea that promiscuous unprotected sex isn't recommended, and that sharing needles isn't recommended.

Doesn't show anything about homosexuality.

Black people make up the majority of people infected in the US, does that mean that it is wrong to be black?

Statistics don't prove anything.

 

[Krete]

And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? “So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” (Mt 19:4-6)

Except, you know, celibate priests.

 

[Asimov]

One more time for you:

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it.” (Gen 1:27-28)


So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. The man said, “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.” For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. (Gen 2:21-24)

Jesus reaffirms the sacrament of marriage in the NT:


And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? “So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” (Mt 19:4-6)

Hmmm...don't see anything about condemning homosexuality.

 

[chnchris]

Which mentions homosexuality where... exactly?

When interpreting Scripture you need to interpret it in
totality, not by selecting 1 verse. This is how people can
justify practically anything using the Bible. Go back and
read the verses i posted previously, especially regarding
the sins of Sodom (btw, where we get word sodomy)and
Gomorrah.

That was all about Adam and Eve (whom I don't believe to be real historical figures anyway, but even if they were...) and their being united... it doesn't say that such a union HAS to be between a man and a woman though, anywhere at all, unless I'm mistaken.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it.” (Gen 1:27-28)


So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. The man said, “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.” For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. (Gen 2:21-24)

1 man + 1 woman = marriage
He did not say a man and a man to be joined together and fruitful.


Jesus reaffirms the sacrament of marriage in the NT:


And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? “So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” (Mt 19:4-6)



In His Love & Mercy,
chris

 

[chnchris]

Except, you know, celibate priests.

Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."(Mt 19:11-13)

 

[chnchris]

Hmmm...don't see anything about condemning homosexuality.

Read Post #1

 

[Krete]

He did not say a man and a man to be joined together and fruitful.

Well, you see, that's the thing. It's an impossibility. How else would the world have been populated?

However, that is not a problem now. If anything, the world's too crowded, and because of Exodus and such crazies, we're losing a valuable part of population control. With more heterosexuals procreating, the population's growing too much.

Did I just refer to homosexuality as birth control? I think it's time to sleep...

 

[Goodchild]

As a Christian we are required to spread the Truth as revealed
by God and His Church. And also as a Christian we expect to
be persecuted for doing it. We do it out of love, not hate.

You're being persecuted? What a freaking laugh!

Yeah, I see every day where christians are going around saying "I got beat up today because people wouldn't stop being gay!", "being straight is so miserable and everyone hates me for it, i'm going to kill myself" and so on.

Buddy, no one in this country gets so depressed to the point of suicide because they are hated and persecuted for being christian. You don't even know the slightest inkling of what real persecution is and to go around crying 'persecution' all the time just makes your religion all the more disgusting.

If I took your viewpoint, then "out of love" i'd be pushing for a constitutional amendment to ban religion completely to save you all from the mental virus you've been afflicted with. "Out of love" i'd go out and find a christian to beat to a pulp and hang from barb-wire like they did to Matt Shepherd. "Out of love" i'd demand the government outlaw marriage for christians, because delusional people shouldn't be allowed to raise children.

Stop with the "out of love" and "hate the sin" garbage, you people haven't been fooling us for a long time now so you might as well stop fooling yourself.

 

[Krete]

"Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. (Mt 19:11-13)

Seems that applies here, huh?

 

[Asimov]

Read Post #1

I did, and all of it was Jewish law with a smidgen of something about lusting.

 

[CCGirl]

Big difference, you can have children.

I also have one adopted child.

 

[SimplyMe]

Unfortunately, homosexuals usually have multiple partners
prior to settling down with one.

And so do most heterosexuals. Therefore both have a chance of contracting AIDS and other STDs. What does that have to do with homosexual love being immoral?

i believe i said we all sin.

Actually you didn't, if you go back and check.

Truth can not be manipulated, than it wouldn't be true.

That is true yet, you are unable to prove that what you believe is true. Bible scholars nor the various Christian sects don't agree on exactly what the Bible says about homosexuals -- so who's to say that you are the one with the truth? And I'll only accept God as an answer if you actually speak with him face to face as I also speak to God through prayer and know what He has told me.

Edit: I forgot to add that you also didn't address my point. The statistics posted on another thread that came from Paul Cameron are false, yet they are frequently quoted by those wanting to condemn homosexuals. There is also the claim made on this thread that the APA removed homosexuality from the DSM for political reasons; again, the evidence shows this is false. The DSM was changed 35 years ago, Cameron published his "studies" 25 years ago; why do people that love truth (assuming these people are Christian like they say they are) keep spreading false information decades later?