3abn Continued (2)

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tomatoe

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PP I am NOT banning questioning anything. Read my post again and don't try to twist it to say something I didn't say. I said "false insinuations." Watchbird wasn't asking ANY questions. She was making insinuations that were FALSE. PLAIN FALSEHOODS!!!

I stand behind what I said. God will NOT be mocked.
I must say this really is amazing. I see on other forums that Inga is posting as if none of the facts have been explained while WB as always, tries to give the ones who are posting their ridiculous and negative thoughts, credibility. Such as in "yes, I believe you have nailed it." Oh people you are so obvious and so funny with your reactions. Since so many of you have invested so much time and energy into trying to destroy 3abn and DS, I suppose I should feel a little bit sorry for you that your dream will not be a reality. But, well, I don't.
 
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Pinkpanther007

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God will NOT be mocked.
No, God is not mocked. Regardless what beautiful designs you paint on the ossuary it is still a box of bones. You can throw an expensive rug over a pile of dirt but the dirt is still there until you clean it up. You can apply the name of God to anything you value, but God is not mocked. "Wicked men are wicked men still..."
 
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PeacefulSDA

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The problem with your postings as I see it - you pretend to post in a Christian manner - when all you want to do is continue stirring the pot. Looking at an example of what I mean - take a look at this post of yours a little later
" That further explains tomatoe and Steffan posting about Doug dismissing the allegations of pastoral abuse."
Now, really. You made a totally wrong statement.

Take a look at any of my posts and tell me where I said Doug dismissed the allegations. All I said was, I know Doug and what was said about his thought processes and feelings were inaccurate.

By the way, did you hear about Gailon calling up Amazing Facts and demanding to speak to Doug? To nobody's surprise, except Gailon's, he could not get through.

That should tell you about the kind of people your group associates with...liars and cons.

But, please free to spin away. I'll be watching....
steffan,

I will not be offended by your tactics of attempting to characterize me as pretending to post in a Christian manner. It does speak, however, to the spirit you may be allowing to direct your responses.

Now, you asked me to look at your posts and tell you where you said that Doug dismissed the allegations. I am pasting below your two latests posts from BSDA and my question to you the information you posted.

On 4/20/2007 at 4:07PM PDT, steffan said:
I am sorry, I had to post here after hearing all that is being said here. It is too funny not to.
Doug and Danny had a meeting Thursday at 4pm central time with all of the 3abn employees. They were told that this merge would not change any of their positions, work schedules or anything else. Doug made a point to say that he intends to keep his church in Sacramento and still run amazing facts and WOULD NOT have any say in day to day 3abn operations just as Danny will have no say in day to day operations of AF. Except for a merger of the boards and Danny and Doug taking more time to evangelize, most everything will remain as is. Doug and Danny, AF & 3abn will remain 2000 miles apart and will continue business as usual with Danny over 3abn and Doug over AF.
So, all this business of Doug cleaning house or that he doesn't realize what he has gotten himself into is absolutely a huge laugh. He had 20 or so highly respected people on his board advising him as well as Danny's board advising him. AF and 3ABN has worked together closely for years. That is the reason the AF people are not worried about allegations. They know they are false and shrug off the people behind it. To say that Danny was running scared as stated above is, again, crazy. If he was running scared he would have resigned, not expanded, and remained in charge of 3abn.
Not hard people, get a grip. As much as you hate to face it, that is the truth of it. As much as you want to read stuff into it, you can't. It is all good.
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=13332&view=findpost&p=192236

On 4/20/2007 at 7:31PM PDT, PeacefullyBewildered said:
Steffan,
I thought you lived in New York. Have you moved to the Thompsonville area so that you have first-hand knowledge of all that you have said below?
AND
Your statement that I have bolded above causes me some concerns. Do you have first hand knowledge from Doug Batchelor and his AF team that they are not worried about allegations and that they know they are false and shrug off the people behind it? Are these statements you have heard for yourself?

PB
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=13332&view=findpost&p=192255


On 4/20/2007 at 7:57PM PDT, steffan said:
And Yes PB. I did get it firsthand that Doug could care less about the allegations on the internet. Just ask Gailon if Doug would take his call today.

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=13332&view=findpost&p=192262

 
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tomatoe

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No, God is not mocked. Regardless what beautiful designs you paint on the ossuary it is still a box of bones. You can throw an expensive rug over a pile of dirt but the dirt is still there until you clean it up. You can apply the name of God to anything you value, but God is not mocked. "Wicked men are wicked men still..."
And so you are judge and jury now? You have cast your lot that Doug and Danny are wicked men and that makes it so? So anyone that throws in their lots with them are evil and stupid too. The GC, ASI, The boards of both ministries....They know nothing and you know it all? You will be judged on the basis you judge others. So far I have seen wonderful fruits from both ministries. From you, here and at BSDA I have seen nothing but evil surmisings and insinuations and accusations.
 
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PeacefulSDA

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Another spinner in the works?

Please point out where I said "Steffan says he was told Doug does not believe the allegations "

Also, please point out where I said anything about the merger? Where did I say that "groups have forced Doug to merge with 3ABN" - with that said - I have no idea where you are reading this stuff....

I do not need to be told about what Doug thinks. I specifically said, "I know Doug."

From where did you cook up this line? That's why I said you pretend to post in a Christian manner when all you want to do is stir the pot.

Please see your BSDA posts quoted in my post above to confirm where you spoke about Doug not believing the allegations and also where you discussed numerous points about the merger.
 
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tomatoe

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steffan,

I will not be offended by your tactics of attempting to characterize me as pretending to post in a Christian manner. It does speak, however, to the spirit you may be allowing to direct your responses.

Now, you asked me to look at your posts and tell you where you said that Doug dismissed the allegations. I am pasting below your two latests posts from BSDA and my question to you the information you posted.

On 4/20/2007 at 4:07PM PDT, steffan said:
I am sorry, I had to post here after hearing all that is being said here. It is too funny not to.
Doug and Danny had a meeting Thursday at 4pm central time with all of the 3abn employees. They were told that this merge would not change any of their positions, work schedules or anything else. Doug made a point to say that he intends to keep his church in Sacramento and still run amazing facts and WOULD NOT have any say in day to day 3abn operations just as Danny will have no say in day to day operations of AF. Except for a merger of the boards and Danny and Doug taking more time to evangelize, most everything will remain as is. Doug and Danny, AF & 3abn will remain 2000 miles apart and will continue business as usual with Danny over 3abn and Doug over AF.
So, all this business of Doug cleaning house or that he doesn't realize what he has gotten himself into is absolutely a huge laugh. He had 20 or so highly respected people on his board advising him as well as Danny's board advising him. AF and 3ABN has worked together closely for years. That is the reason the AF people are not worried about allegations. They know they are false and shrug off the people behind it. To say that Danny was running scared as stated above is, again, crazy. If he was running scared he would have resigned, not expanded, and remained in charge of 3abn.
Not hard people, get a grip. As much as you hate to face it, that is the truth of it. As much as you want to read stuff into it, you can't. It is all good.
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=13332&view=findpost&p=192236

On 4/20/2007 at 7:31PM PDT, PeacefullyBewildered said:
Steffan,
I thought you lived in New York. Have you moved to the Thompsonville area so that you have first-hand knowledge of all that you have said below?
AND
Your statement that I have bolded above causes me some concerns. Do you have first hand knowledge from Doug Batchelor and his AF team that they are not worried about allegations and that they know they are false and shrug off the people behind it? Are these statements you have heard for yourself?

PB
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=13332&view=findpost&p=192255


On 4/20/2007 at 7:57PM PDT, steffan said:
And Yes PB. I did get it firsthand that Doug could care less about the allegations on the internet. Just ask Gailon if Doug would take his call today.

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=13332&view=findpost&p=192262

P, maybe the problem here is that you focused on one allegation subject where Steffan was talking about internet allegations in general. Could that be the problem? Here is my opinion for what it is worth. The TS topic would be a moot point period where AF is concerned. He was never and hasn't been charged with anything, nothing about a cover up at 3abn has been proven and regardless he is no longer there. So, if AF had concerns they would be with the present allegations directly against 3abn from people who have none or very little credibility. I am sure that is what Steffan was referring to and if I have not been correct in my opinion, I am sure Steffan will correct me.
 
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Pinkpanther007

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And so you are judge and jury now? You have cast your lot that Doug and Danny are wicked men and that makes it so? So anyone that throws in their lots with them are evil and stupid too. The GC, ASI, The boards of both ministries....They know nothing and you know it all? You will be judged on the basis you judge others. So far I have seen wonderful fruits from both ministries. From you, here and at BSDA I have seen nothing but evil surmisings and insinuations and accusations.
People and organizations don't have to be stupid or evil to be fooled as you have characterized it. I have not cast any lot that Doug is a wicked man. That is a false twist of your creation.

I also have seen wonderful fruits from both ministries, as well as rotten fruit hanging in the shadows of 3ABN. I have seen lies and false insinuations intended to hurt and destroy people. I have seen 3ABN used as a tool to damage people. Now it appears that an attempt is being made to cover up the rot with the joinder of a truly credible organization. The rot is still there.
 
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tomatoe

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People and organizations don't have to be stupid or evil to be fooled as you have characterized it. I have not cast any lot that Doug is a wicked man. That is a false twist of your creation.

I also have seen wonderful fruits from both ministries, as well as rotten fruit hanging in the shadows of 3ABN. I have seen lies and false insinuations intended to hurt and destroy people. I have seen 3ABN used as a tool to damage people. Now it appears that an attempt is being made to cover up the rot with the joinder of a truly credible organization. The rot is still there.
No, I think when you and several others left you took the rot with you and left 3abn smelling like a rose. JMO of course.
 
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bonedealer

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since there seems to be a lot of cross posting going on right now i am going to follow suit . . .


greg matthews started a new thread on bsda and a poster identified as peacefully bewildered (connections to peacefullysda here?) responded with the following:

Gregory,

Great questions!

I read Doug Batchelor's response with great interest and was surprised by one of his statements. There are those who have said this merger has been in the works for quite some time and yet DB says:

The miraculous, providential and rapid leading of God in this event has taken everyone by surprise.
"… and all the people rejoiced that God had prepared the people, since the events took place so suddenly" (2 Chr 29:36).


That took me by surprise. Once again, answers that have been given regarding this merger are not matching up with statements by those directly involved in the merger which just causes more confusion about the actual facts of this merger. Who are we to believe?

it seems as if "peacefulB" is very skilled at manipulating words - robert's understudy? . . . she takes a sentence and turns it something that it is not . . . it is possible for something to be in the works for a very long time and to suddenly have all the pieces fall into place . . . that happens all the time with mergers . . . they (the detractors, those who would have these ministries disappear) are reaching the crumbs at the bottom of the box trying to turn all of this into an immediate negative . . . God hit 'em right between the eyes and they still don't get it . . . He is just going to let it play out and give them enough rope to hang themselves . . . they are blind, none has even broached the fact that the skyangel thing they had a heyday with is a moot point since 3abn/amazing facts are on an even more expansive system now - with the added benefit of the slingbox . . . God has insured that 3abn/amazing facts will reach even the remotest corners of the earth and it isn't gailon, robert, linda, or anyone at bsda - all of whom believe they are God's chosen agents . . no, he chose danny and doug and He gave them all they needed to make a massive final push before the end of this worlds history . . .

it is obvious over and over again that robert has taken honest and sincere responses from many people and attempted to damage their lives and God's work by twisting and manipulating their words into what he needs to make his baseless accusations . . . on the other side, 3abn has avoided attacking (contrary to the detractors who can't give line or verse when this has occurred - only one accusation after another that it has happened . . . how about some transcripts, some proof!) . . . they have done their best to continue to complete God's mission here on earth - to bring the story of salvation to all so they can make their choice and God will be vindicated in the courts of all His creations . . . God has spoken to you doubters! He has shown you where His work is being done! He has made His will known . . . and still you attack, still you doubt, still you tear at His work . . . where are your hearts? . . . what side do you want to be on in that final day . . .

just 2 cents from the bone dealer
 
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PeacefulSDA

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P, maybe the problem here is that you focused on one allegation subject where Steffan was talking about internet allegations in general. Could that be the problem? Here is my opinion for what it is worth. The TS topic would be a moot point period where AF is concerned. He was never and hasn't been charged with anything, nothing about a cover up at 3abn has been proven and regardless he is no longer there. So, if AF had concerns they would be with the present allegations directly against 3abn from people who have none or very little credibility. I am sure that is what Steffan was referring to and if I have not been correct in my opinion, I am sure Steffan will correct me.
Tomatoe,
steffanphillip was clearly responding to my post about the allegations about pastoral abuse. He also responded to truthmagnet's post about internet gossip. I am including all three posts with links so investigation of the context of each is easy.
I really would like to know what Doug's opinion is of TS's email confession, posted on save3abn.com, to Duane Clem. I know that, to this point, there have been no convictions for any of the alleged abuse, however, TS's email clearly states that Duane resisted every attempt. That does not sound like a consensual relationship and does sound just like pastoral abuse. What about Doug's opinion of the recent Adventist Today article that specified other claims of abuse by TS? Since steffanphillip knows Doug, (didn't you say you also know him?) perhaps he would know the answer and can post it for us.

PeacefulSDA #129, 4/19/07, 10:08PM PDT
tomatoe,
It is one thing to openly investigate allegations of pastoral abuse to ensure that there is no basis for the allegations and another thing to simply take the word of 3abn leadership that it is mere gossip or rumor. There is enough documentation out there that it should be properly addressed. Until that happens, there are many in the world who will feel that there is a cover up. They will still have unanswered concerns and questions and it may be a stumbling block for them.

Near the end of the program, Doug Batchelor said that "they'll know us by our love for each other". Look out of the 3abn doors, Brother Doug, at the people of Thompsonville. Go and ask Duane and Roger Clem and the other alleged victims of pastoral abuse who have experienced the feelings flowing from the co- founder of 3abn towards them. Ask them about the love they see flowing from the leadership of 3abn. Is Christ being lifted up to those alleged victims and their loved ones? Or, has it made better business sense to allow those alleged victims to remain as necessary sacrifices to protect the image of the President and his family? If this is the case, there is a real danger of one day hearing those devastating words from the lips of our Redeemer found in Matthew 7:22-23:

22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

tomatoe, It is one thing to openly investigate allegations of pastoral abuse
steffanphillip #153, 4/20/07, 11:37AM PDT
But I do know Doug!

I don't know how exactly your "interpretation" of how uncomfortable someone looks comes by, but it's not accurate at all. I do know Doug and what he thinks of this and you do not. So, um, lay off the recreational drugs, maybe?

steffanphillip claims to know Doug and what he thinks(re: internet gossip)

steffanphillip #154, 4/20/07, 11:46AM PDT

You mean, enough allegations, right? The only documents I have seen - irrefutable facts - are Gailon's conviction and Linda's lies...everything else seems to be "alleged" and that is not documentation.

You mean, enough allegations, right?
 
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tomatoe

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Tomatoe,
steffanphillip was clearly responding to my post about the allegations about pastoral abuse. He also responded to truthmagnet's post about internet gossip. I am including all three posts with links so investigation of the context of each is easy.
I really would like to know what Doug's opinion is of TS's email confession, posted on save3abn.com, to Duane Clem. I know that, to this point, there have been no convictions for any of the alleged abuse, however, TS's email clearly states that Duane resisted every attempt. That does not sound like a consensual relationship and does sound just like pastoral abuse. What about Doug's opinion of the recent Adventist Today article that specified other claims of abuse by TS? Since steffanphillip knows Doug, (didn't you say you also know him?) perhaps he would know the answer and can post it for us.





P, again did you skip all the part about those allegations being a moot point where AF is concerned? What was alleged, was alleged before the merger and the person that was accused has not been there for sometime. That has nothing to do with the here and now or AF.
 
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tomatoe

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since there seems to be a lot of cross posting going on right now i am going to follow suit . . .


greg matthews started a new thread on bsda and a poster identified as peacefully bewildered (connections to peacefullysda here?) responded with the following:

Gregory,

Great questions!

I read Doug Batchelor's response with great interest and was surprised by one of his statements. There are those who have said this merger has been in the works for quite some time and yet DB says:

The miraculous, providential and rapid leading of God in this event has taken everyone by surprise.
"… and all the people rejoiced that God had prepared the people, since the events took place so suddenly" (2 Chr 29:36).

That took me by surprise. Once again, answers that have been given regarding this merger are not matching up with statements by those directly involved in the merger which just causes more confusion about the actual facts of this merger. Who are we to believe?

it seems as if "peacefulB" is very skilled at manipulating words - robert's understudy? . . . she takes a sentence and turns it something that it is not . . . it is possible for something to be in the works for a very long time and to suddenly have all the pieces fall into place . . . that happens all the time with mergers . . . they (the detractors, those who would have these ministries disappear) are reaching the crumbs at the bottom of the box trying to turn all of this into an immediate negative . . . God hit 'em right between the eyes and they still don't get it . . . He is just going to let it play out and give them enough rope to hang themselves . . . they are blind, none has even broached the fact that the skyangel thing they had a heyday with is a moot point since 3abn/amazing facts are on an even more expansive system now - with the added benefit of the slingbox . . . God has insured that 3abn/amazing facts will reach even the remotest corners of the earth and it isn't gailon, robert, linda, or anyone at bsda - all of whom believe they are God's chosen agents . . no, he chose danny and doug and He gave them all they needed to make a massive final push before the end of this worlds history . . .

it is obvious over and over again that robert has taken honest and sincere responses from many people and attempted to damage their lives and God's work by twisting and manipulating their words into what he needs to make his baseless accusations . . . on the other side, 3abn has avoided attacking (contrary to the detractors who can't give line or verse when this has occurred - only one accusation after another that it has happened . . . how about some transcripts, some proof!) . . . they have done their best to continue to complete God's mission here on earth - to bring the story of salvation to all so they can make their choice and God will be vindicated in the courts of all His creations . . . God has spoken to you doubters! He has shown you where His work is being done! He has made His will known . . . and still you attack, still you doubt, still you tear at His work . . . where are your hearts? . . . what side do you want to be on in that final day . . .

just 2 cents from the bone dealer


Thank you for clarifying on yet another issue. There are not conflicting reports. I said the ideas had been tossed around for several years, and they had. then, the timing the ideas and the coming together all seem to fall into place suddenly. Bone dealer explained it better than I.
 
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tomatoe

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Tomatoe,
steffanphillip was clearly responding to my post about the allegations about pastoral abuse. He also responded to truthmagnet's post about internet gossip. I am including all three posts with links so investigation of the context of each is easy.
I really would like to know what Doug's opinion is of TS's email confession, posted on save3abn.com, to Duane Clem. I know that, to this point, there have been no convictions for any of the alleged abuse, however, TS's email clearly states that Duane resisted every attempt. That does not sound like a consensual relationship and does sound just like pastoral abuse. What about Doug's opinion of the recent Adventist Today article that specified other claims of abuse by TS? Since steffanphillip knows Doug, (didn't you say you also know him?) perhaps he would know the answer and can post it for us.




Again PB what would allegations of pastoral abuse 20 years ago in the church of God have to do with DB and AF? Absolutely nothing.
 
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