Homosexual Sex?

[Foundthelight]

Nobody hates YOU, the ones opposing you hate the anti-homosexual doctrine, not you as an individual.

I disagree. All of us who call homosexual acts sin are hated in the real sense of the word by those who take part in such acts.

 

[davedjy]

Probably as much as we hate the sin of homosexual activity.

You hate the homosexual act? it doesn't even concern you, just like a "heterosexual act" doesn't concern you, unless it's between you and your wife.

 

[davedjy]

I disagree. All of us who call homosexual acts sin are hated in the real sense of the word by those who take part in such acts.

You will be hated no matter what.

Did Jesus not say "if they hated me, they will hate you, too"? Probably time to get used to being hated, I get ridiculed for being a Christian all the time.

 

[ScottBot]

You hate the homosexual act? it doesn't even concern you, just like a "heterosexual act" doesn't concern you, unless it's between you and your wife.

All sin concerns people who love the Gospel.

 

[Foundthelight]

You just created yourself a scarecrow and refuted it. I refuted the other David's statement...he said there were no gay animals...I never said we are animals!

Sorry, I didn't see your full context.

I still stand by my scarecrow though. There are many who excuse their behavior by saying that because it occurs in nature it is OK for us. Animals have an excuse. We don't.

 

[Foundthelight]

Didn't someone tell us to hate sin?

 

[Myriah]

In fact, NOT pointing out sin to a brother is in and of itself a sin.

Perhaps. I'd need to view that in context.

However, no one could remove [myself] from sin except me and Jesus and my love for God (the Father, the Creator) and the Holy Spirit.

In the meanwhile, my brothers and sisters in Christ still exhibited the fruits of the Spirit below to me while I was in my sin. And I was a heterosexual agnostic wanting to be Christian.

We can plant and we can water, but God causes the increase, whatever that scripture means to you.

 

[Foundthelight]

How can we repent and be saved if we are not told what sin is? The bible tells us of our sin and need for a savior. We are almost in a "Catch 22" situation. If we know of someone's sin and do not tell them of it it will not fare well for us when we are judged. We also know that those who sin out of ignorance will not be punished as much as those who sin in full knowledge. Do we enlighten them or not?

Those who post on these boards are not in ignorance of sin. They may choose to put a different "twist" on things, but they have been exposed to the truth. We have no excuse. In love I pray that those who choose to put a post-modern "twist" on the bible are right. For if they are wrong they face a horrible fate. In love I pray that they will accept the "orthodox" "twist" and not have to face such an uncertain eternity.

 

[Myriah]

How can we repent and be saved if we are not told what sin is? The bible tells us of our sin and need for a savior. We are almost in a "Catch 22" situation. If we know of someone's sin and do not tell them of it it will not fare well for us when we are judged. We also know that those who sin out of ignorance will not be punished as much as those who sin in full knowledge. Do we enlighten them or not?

Those who post on these boards are not in ignorance of sin. They may choose to put a different "twist" on things, but they have been exposed to the truth. We have no excuse. In love I pray that those who choose to put a post-modern "twist" on the bible are right. For if they are wrong they face a horrible fate. In love I pray that they will accept the "orthodox" "twist" and not have to face such an uncertain eternity.

I understand your concern, sir. I have a relative who is a lesbian, SS unionized with children. I don't want to see her go to hell because she loves a woman and wants to be with her and her children. They are not hurting anyone, and they go to the Episcopal church. They help and do good to the community all the time. They really are very kind and want peace.

They don't want to go to hell, and they really do love God and people. They merely are in love with each other and they are not attracted to men? My relative seemed born that way to me. I loved to talk about boys, she never did.

Can we also say we were right in not keeping The Sabbath? Can we really say we have the only correct doctrine/theology? Can theology save us? Or can just trusting Jesus, do that?

Sorry, if I got soapy... but I have relatives.... and I have found theology to be more hurtful than helpful, sometimes.

 

[united4Peace]

How can we repent and be saved if we are not told what sin is? The bible tells us of our sin and need for a savior. We are almost in a "Catch 22" situation. If we know of someone's sin and do not tell them of it it will not fare well for us when we are judged. We also know that those who sin out of ignorance will not be punished as much as those who sin in full knowledge. Do we enlighten them or not?

Those who post on these boards are not in ignorance of sin. They may choose to put a different "twist" on things, but they have been exposed to the truth. We have no excuse. In love I pray that those who choose to put a post-modern "twist" on the bible are right. For if they are wrong they face a horrible fate. In love I pray that they will accept the "orthodox" "twist" and not have to face such an uncertain eternity.

Thankyou for recognizing that we all have a different outlook and not putting those that do down.

Im one that will never have an orthodox view, I will not apologize for that.
There is one thing that connects us all whether we be on the right, left or down the middle in our view (of Christianity) and that is Christ.
Let's keep that connection strong shall we and not let the petty differences pull us all apart.

 

[Maynard Keenan]

Are we animals? Or are we children of God? Animals are ruled by instinct. We are ruled by the word of God.

Animals cannot sin because they cannot know the Word of God. We do not have that excuse.

Saying that something is OK because animals do it is a poor argument.

Indeed it would be a poor argument. However, no one said that. Read a little more closely next time.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Animals don’t use religion to justify prejudice or make excuses for discrimination.

I agree, animals are indiscriminate...
Most carnivores will kill you, eat you, and think nothing about it. i

 

[david_x]

There are no gay animals? did I just not prove that?

Sorry, I can't find that. Were is it at?

 

[davedjy]

Sorry, I can't find that. Were is it at?

Google gay animals, and you will yield many results. I will not link any of those pages here for obvious reasons.

 

[She]

I agree, animals are indiscriminate...
Most carnivores will kill you, eat you, and think nothing about it. i

Why should they? Do most humans think twice about killing and eating other animals? Anyway, in India, a distinction is made between man-eating animals (which are usually shot) and most other animals which leave humans alone. So, it would seem, that most carnivores respect humans.

(Other animals do not kill THEIR OWN species anywhere near the LARGE SCALE which humans kill other humans.)

 

[davedjy]

Why should they? Do most humans think twice about killing and eating other animals? Anyway, in India, a distinction is made between man-eating animals (which are usually shot) and most other animals which leave humans alone. So, it would seem, that most carnivores respect humans.

(Other animals do not kill THEIR OWN species anywhere near the LARGE SCALE which humans kill other humans.)

I agree, but it's not a credible argument that they made. Those are VIOLENT acts that animals do, which cannot be used, and that is because they CANNOT get food like we do! nonetheless, you are correct...we hunt animals and kill them, great point! LOL

I love how the focus shifts: "homosexuality is not natural, no other species does this".
Then when there is valid proof that 450 species practice this, all the focus shifts...

"we are not animals", "we have morals", "it doesn't matter if it's natural..." on and on, cherry picking.

I love the fact that it is a necessary part of the animal kingdom...basically showing that God ISN'T mocked by acts that have positive and crucial benefit outcome...that He must've ordained if they are a necessity as shown.

Shows how little we know about God, and that the Bible does not have ALL the answers for everything...

 

[ScottBot]

I understand your concern, sir. I have a relative who is a lesbian, SS unionized with children. I don't want to see her go to hell because she loves a woman and wants to be with her and her children. They are not hurting anyone, and they go to the Episcopal church. They help and do good to the community all the time. They really are very kind and want peace.

They don't want to go to hell, and they really do love God and people. They merely are in love with each other and they are not attracted to men? My relative seemed born that way to me. I loved to talk about boys, she never did.

Can we also say we were right in not keeping The Sabbath? Can we really say we have the only correct doctrine/theology? Can theology save us? Or can just trusting Jesus, do that?

Sorry, if I got soapy... but I have relatives.... and I have found theology to be more hurtful than helpful, sometimes.

I have 2 uncles, and aunt, and 3 cousins all within my immediate family who consider themselves homosexual. I still love them dearly, but it doesn't mean that I approve of their "lifestyle". One of my uncles and my aunt choose to remain celibate. The only thing close relationships do is complicate the problem. It is indeed a very difficult thing to temper ones love for a person with a refusal to accept their "love interest" as acceptable to God.

 

[Gusoceros]

I agree, but it's not a credible argument that they made. Those are VIOLENT acts that animals do, which cannot be used, and that is because they CANNOT get food like we do! nonetheless, you are correct...we hunt animals and kill them, great point! LOL

I love how the focus shifts: "homosexuality is not natural, no other species does this".
Then when there is valid proof that 450 species practice this, all the focus shifts...

"we are not animals", "we have morals", "it doesn't matter if it's natural..." on and on, cherry picking.

I love the fact that it is a necessary part of the animal kingdom...basically showing that God ISN'T mocked by acts that have positive and crucial benefit outcome...that He must've ordained if they are a necessity as shown.

Shows how little we know about God, and that the Bible does not have ALL the answers for everything...

There are a couple points to these arguments that often just go unaddressed- I will attempt to frame this how I think it should be:

1) Examples of sin and deviancy in the fallen world, are not proof that this is God's plan for mankind, nor is it proof this is how God wants these animals to act, or how they were created.

2) When people speak of the natural and the nature of this- they are speaking of HUMAN nature, as animal behavior (before or after the fall) is a distinctly wrong standard of comparison for mankind- as we are created in the Image of God.

G

 

[Nadiine]

There are a couple points to these arguments that often just go unaddressed- I will attempt to frame this how I think it should be:

1) Examples of sin and deviancy in the fallen world, are not proof that this is God's plan for mankind, nor is it proof this is how God wants these animals to act, or how they were created.

2) When people speak of the natural and the nature of this- they are speaking of HUMAN nature, as animal behavior (before or after the fall) is a distinctly wrong standard of comparison for mankind- as we are created in the Image of God.

G

To your point #2 YES. That's what a Previous post of mine pointed out.
Unless we think the entire bible is also for ANIMALS to obey & that the principles & commands are to all animals.

You cannot compare animals to people to make moral points of relevance becuz they are not identical in makeup or capacity.
Just like we can't point to plants to prove human morality or nature (other than... it takes a male & female to procreate? lol).

Anyway - if anyone's going to try to support their view, THEN USE AN APPROPRIATE EXAMPLE.
Just like I've seen people who try to support Creationism using shabby examples & arguments.
Sure, I agree with them that God created all things spontaneously, but the argument itself doesn't make a convincing support.

 

[david_x]

Google gay animals, and you will yield many results. I will not link any of those pages here for obvious reasons.

All i got was some things about chimps that were obviously just natural behaviors people took to be gay. I live in a rural community and i know that animals are driven by hormones. A bull in a pen with others that knows females are do will do the natural thing. That's just how it works.