Do Any of You Know Anything About This?

[QuiltAngel]

We jsut received a phone call inviting our Youth Group to an Acquire the Fire thing put on by Teen Mania.

From my search in the internet, I don't really know what to think. Seems like the overall message is great. Yet, they come across as teens are in big trouble and they have all the answers. Yet, I do know what I think about it.

Just wondering if anyone has been to one of these or know of anyone who has been.

 

[VindicatedPoet]

It is amazing! It is a must go to!!! I have not been there, but I have heard so many good things about it that the list goes on!!! HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!

 

[QuiltAngel]

Thanks, I am sure it is an amazing experience. But, since I posted this in the conservative Lutheran forum, I am looking for comments from Lutherans, from a Lutheran perspective.

 

[LilLamb219]

I've never heard of it before.

 

[QuiltAngel]

It seems to be a Ron Luce ministry. I have heard of him, but can't remember in what context.

 

[LilLamb219]

I went to the website to look through. I noticed some Lutheran Churches signed up on their Battle site that is similar to a MySpace but I don't know if any were LCMS...a few were declared ELCA.

I'd have a problem with wondering if they were presenting Law/Gospel in the right capacity.

 

[QuiltAngel]

I am wondering about the need to make a decision. From what I am seeing there is a lot of Law.

 

[LilLamb219]

There is a lot of "commitment" talk on their site. From what I know, the people who keep pushing the commitment talk also push the "you gotta make a decision" stuff as well.

 

[C.F.W. Walther]

"Some have criticized his organization as being a Christian fascist movement, citing frequent militant statements by him at his youth rallies such as "This is war. And Jesus invites us to get into the action, telling us that the violent—the ‘forceful’ ones—will lay hold of the kingdom," and exhorting his young followers to proclaim in unison "I will keep my eyes on the battle, submitting to Your code even when I don’t understand." This type of imagery is said to be used under the context of a spiritual "battle" between good an evil. The Battle Cry rallies use militarist imagery and wording, even the presentation of active and former military personnel to promote their ideas of spreading Christianity throughout the U.S. and the world. After talking with some Navy SEALs onstage he was quoted as saying "That is your youth pastor. He’s going to make you a SEAL for Christ.""

More info on Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Luce

 

[QuiltAngel]

Thanks all. I was looking at the websites and wikipedia. I saw that Luce was a graduate of Oral Roberts University - red flag imho.

It is nice to get input from others. Our youth are so involved in sports that it is hard to get them to attend youth group meetins, District Youth Gathering, camp and such. (I am not the youth leader, my husband is the Pastor, why we got the telephone invite). The fact that they are calling churches inviting them makes me wonder if they are getting enough registrations.

Thanks again.

 

[Studeclunker]

"Some have criticized his organization as being a Christian fascist movement, citing frequent militant statements by him at his youth rallies such as "This is war. And Jesus invites us to get into the action, telling us that the violent—the ‘forceful’ ones—will lay hold of the kingdom," and exhorting his young followers to proclaim in unison "I will keep my eyes on the battle, submitting to Your code even when I don’t understand." This type of imagery is said to be used under the context of a spiritual "battle" between good an evil.

Oh my! Definately something I don't want my kids involved in. Unfortuneately, it sounds like it would be very attractive to my sons.

Reminds me of a saying I've heard;

"Give me your children till they're ten years old, then you can do whatever you want with them." -Adolf Hitler, speaking of his youth movement.

Sigh. You just can't spread the gospel with the sword. It's not Parkay and the sword is too long, it won't work.

 

[pastorjimg]

When I was a Youth worker those guys called me ALL OF THE TIME! That alone was reason enough for me not to bring anyone to one of there events.

 

[The Princess Bride]

My youth group has gone several times, and I have seen a lot of teens come back totally on fire for God and freed from a lot of things (depression, socia issues, etc)

But I'm Non-Denom..so I know what I believe is far out anyways!

I saw that Luce was a graduate of Oral Roberts University - red flag imho.

Why is that a red flag?

 

[ctay]

Sounds like something I wouldn't send my kids to.

 

[C.F.W. Walther]

My youth group has gone several times, and I have seen a lot of teens come back totally on fire for God and freed from a lot of things (depression, socia issues, etc)

But I'm Non-Denom..so I know what I believe is far out anyways!



Why is that a red flag?

Well if Oral Roberts saw an image of a two hundred foot Jesus apperaing at his university and also bilked over a million dollars from his supporters saying that God would kill him if Roberts wouldn't get the money. Then don't you think he is questionable?

 

[QuiltAngel]

Well, it is a red flag to us Lutherans as the teachings are pentacostal/charismatic/word of faith which all tend to put the focus on what I do for my salvation. We Lutherans believe that we can do nothing for our salvation, Jesus did it all.

 

[The Princess Bride]

Well if Oral Roberts saw an image of a two hundred foot Jesus apperaing at his university and also bilked over a million dollars from his supporters saying that God would kill him if Roberts wouldn't get the money. Then don't you think he is questionable?

Did that really happen? I know very little about the university anyways, so I was just curious.

Well, it is a red flag to us Lutherans as the teachings are pentacostal/charismatic/word of faith which all tend to put the focus on what I do for my salvation. We Lutherans believe that we can do nothing for our salvation, Jesus did it all.

Ok, I gotcha.

 

[QuiltAngel]

Princess Bride,
If you are interested in learning a little more of our beliefs, I recommend you look at the Small Catechism in TCL.

 

[BigNorsk]

Our youth group went to one in Rapid City, South Dakota last year and my pastor and I had a talk about this very issue over it.

He listened pretty critically and he said the only thing that was kind of over the top was one time they had like 15 minutes (or at least it seemed like it) of the same few words over and over and over. In that great Charismatic style designed to produce tongues and such. However that didn't really happen among the youth there.

And he explained it to the youth afterwards and pointed out a few things so overall it was pretty good. They enjoyed it, it wasn't all flagrant over the top. And the pastor was able to educate them in the parts that were a bit off. He said about half the songs were really theologically sound. The biggest thing in the rest was the I chose God thing. Which he has talked to them about quite a bit before. And there was that one Charismatic chant. Which the kids decided was really boring and kind of a waste, but a good time to hit the bathroom.

He saw it as helpful, because a lot of it was the very music the kids will hear if they listen to most Christian radio stations and such and he was able to educate them to it's mistakes in a fun nonconfrontational way and such.

I liked that because frankly my kids aren't going to listen to a bunch of hymns and if they listen to whats out there for Christian music they are going to get a lot of this anyway, and exposing them this way and being able to teach them the mistakes and problems about the theology even though you might like the music part was very worthwhile.

If anyone knows of a great Lutheran music rally touring the country please speak up. We'd love to take the kids there too.

Marv

 

[C.F.W. Walther]

The only problem is that since the pastor condoned it, it makes it "OK". Exposer through private teaching is one thing but taking them to see the "performance" is another. Everything that they saw will be implanted on there minds as being OK except what the pastor explained is not. They will probably just remember the former.