Scriptures that say not all are saved

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Hidden Manna

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Scriptures that mean not all are saved

Universalists believe all people will be saved. They often complain against the contrary teaching that people go to hell by posing questions such as
"Do you really believe that God is going to lose most of mankind in hell and that only a few are going to be saved?"
"If most go to hell, doesn't that mean that Satan wins since God only gets a few compared to the majority who are lost?"

Of course, these kinds of questions are the wrong ones to ask. What they are doing is using emotionalism to sway someone's beliefs. What they should be asking are questions like these:
"What does the Bible teach about damnation?"
"Does the Bible tell us if most will be lost or saved?"
"Does it tell us that all will be saved?"

The means to good biblical theology is to examine the whole of scriptures without bias so that proper and correct doctrines can be determined. Of course, no one is without bias. But, that does not mean that we should give up trying to be objective. We must endeavor to let God's word lead us rather than our emotionalism and personal preferences make decisions for us, especially about doctrine. At least, that should be the goal.
What matters is what God has revealed in His word. So, are there scriptures in the Bible that plainly state that not all are saved? Yes, there are.
"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. 14 "For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it," (Matt. 7:13-14 ).
"For many are called, but few are chosen, "(Matt. 22:14 ).
"And He was passing through from one city and village to another, teaching, and proceeding on His way to Jerusalem. 23 And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved? " And He said to them, 24 "Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 "Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26 "Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27 and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers,'" (Luke 13:22-27 ).
"And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that will be saved; 28 for the Lord will execute His word upon the earth, thoroughly and quickly," (Rom. 9:27 ).

These verses are plain and clear. Not all are saved; in fact, few are. Whether or not we think this makes God a failure, or that it makes us sad, or upsets us, isn't really that important. If the Bible says it, that settles it. What is left is to make adjustments in our understanding and feelings in order to bring more in line with what God has stated.
After all, we do not know the mind of God. His ways are higher than our ways. I prefer to accept what it says than feel my way through theology.
 

Pneuma3

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Scriptures that say not all are saved

Universalists believe all people will be saved. They often complain against the contrary teaching that people go to hell by posing questions such as
"Do you really believe that God is going to lose most of mankind in hell and that only a few are going to be saved?"
"If most go to hell, doesn't that mean that Satan wins since God only gets a few compared to the majority who are lost?"

Of course, these kinds of questions are the wrong ones to ask. What they are doing is using emotionalism to sway someone's beliefs. What they should be asking are questions like these:
"What does the Bible teach about damnation?"
"Does the Bible tell us if most will be lost or saved?"
"Does it tell us that all will be saved?"

The means to good biblical theology is to examine the whole of scriptures without bias so that proper and correct doctrines can be determined. Of course, no one is without bias. But, that does not mean that we should give up trying to be objective. We must endeavor to let God's word lead us rather than our emotionalism and personal preferences make decisions for us, especially about doctrine. At least, that should be the goal.
What matters is what God has revealed in His word. So, are there scriptures in the Bible that plainly state that not all are saved? Yes, there are.
"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. 14 "For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it," (Matt. 7:13-14 ).
"For many are called, but few are chosen, "(Matt. 22:14 ).
"And He was passing through from one city and village to another, teaching, and proceeding on His way to Jerusalem. 23 And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved? " And He said to them, 24 "Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 "Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26 "Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27 and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers,'" (Luke 13:22-27 ).
"And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that will be saved; 28 for the Lord will execute His word upon the earth, thoroughly and quickly," (Rom. 9:27 ).

These verses are plain and clear. Not all are saved; in fact, few are. Whether or not we think this makes God a failure, or that it makes us sad, or upsets us, isn't really that important. If the Bible says it, that settles it. What is left is to make adjustments in our understanding and feelings in order to bring more in line with what God has stated.
After all, we do not know the mind of God. His ways are higher than our ways. I prefer to accept what it says than feel my way through theology.

None of those scriptures state all men will not be saved.

But we have a sure word on all men being saved.

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

How many more would you like?

Also you mention that UR play on the emotions of men.

And to that I say so what, God gave us these emotions for a purpose.

How many times did Jesus Himself use mans emotions to point out a truth?

What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?

There are more but you get the point.
 
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silentreader

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None of those scriptures state all men will not be saved.

But we have a sure word on all men being saved.

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

How many more would you like?

Also you mention that UR play on the emotions of men.

And to that I say so what, God gave us these emotions for a purpose.

How many times did Jesus Himself use mans emotions to point out a truth?

What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?

There are more but you get the point.

your interpretation is incorrect. 'taketh away the sin of the world' does not mean all men will accept Christ's sacrifice. a person has to proclaim their faith in Christ as the Messiah for salvation to occur. since, we have records of people dying and proclaiming their unbelief, we can be assured that not all men will be saved.
 
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Pneuma3

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your interpretation is incorrect. 'taketh away the sin of the world' does not mean all men will accept Christ's sacrifice. a person has to proclaim their faith in Christ as the Messiah for salvation to occur. since, we have records of people dying and proclaiming their unbelief, we can be assured that not all men will be saved.

Romans 3:3
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

We also have the sure word that every knee shall bow and tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of the Father.
 
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2ducklow

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Scriptures that say not all are saved

Universalists believe all people will be saved. They often complain against the contrary teaching that people go to hell by posing questions such as
"Do you really believe that God is going to lose most of mankind in hell and that only a few are going to be saved?"
"If most go to hell, doesn't that mean that Satan wins since God only gets a few compared to the majority who are lost?"
I believe God will win more people than satan does. Durring the millinium when satan is bound and the earth produces in abundance for 1000 years, it will produce also in abundance people. And these people will be able to accept christ without the demonic hinderances we have today. So naturally under those circumstances more people will turn to christ than won't.
hiddenmanna said:
Of course, these kinds of questions are the wrong ones to ask. What they are doing is using emotionalism to sway someone's beliefs. What they should be asking are questions like these:
"What does the Bible teach about damnation?"
"Does the Bible tell us if most will be lost or saved?"
"Does it tell us that all will be saved?"

The means to good biblical theology is to examine the whole of scriptures without bias so that proper and correct doctrines can be determined. Of course, no one is without bias. But, that does not mean that we should give up trying to be objective. We must endeavor to let God's word lead us rather than our emotionalism and personal preferences make decisions for us, especially about doctrine. At least, that should be the goal.
What matters is what God has revealed in His word. So, are there scriptures in the Bible that plainly state that not all are saved? Yes, there are.
"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. 14 "For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it," (Matt. 7:13-14 ).
"For many are called, but few are chosen, "(Matt. 22:14 ).
"And He was passing through from one city and village to another, teaching, and proceeding on His way to Jerusalem. 23 And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved? " And He said to them, 24 "Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 "Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26 "Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27 and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers,'" (Luke 13:22-27 ).
"And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that will be saved; 28 for the Lord will execute His word upon the earth, thoroughly and quickly," (Rom. 9:27 ).
these scriptures are abundantly clear, and anyone who says that all are saved after reading these scriputres has a monumental chore of twisting plain language into something quite unrecognizable from the original. One has to have an extreme desire to want to believe in all being saved in order to get around these scriptures in their own mind. As the scripture says 'the heart is exceedingly deceitful
hiddenmanna said:
These verses are plain and clear. Not all are saved; in fact, few are. Whether or not we think this makes God a failure, or that it makes us sad, or upsets us, isn't really that important. If the Bible says it, that settles it. What is left is to make adjustments in our understanding and feelings in order to bring more in line with what God has stated.
After all, we do not know the mind of God. His ways are higher than our ways. I prefer to accept what it says than feel my way through theology.
I agree that up until now few have been saved comparitively, but I believe a very large percentage will turn to christ when the spirit of god comes down like the rain at the end times as prophesised by Joel.
 
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If you don't believe All will be saved then you don't understand what Love really is. "God is Love" is a very strong statement. There are many who are blind to the impact and power of that statement.

The concept of unconditional love has been so perverted in us humans, it's no wonder some believe that unconditional love could toss a sinner into a burning pit for eternity.

But I believe God's love surpasses any idea in my tiny brain (or any of ours for that matter) as to what real love is.

Perhaps we would get to a point where we stop forgiving someone for hurting us. But we are assured that that would never happen with God.
 
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Hidden Manna

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The unforgivable sin and the age to come


Universalism teaches that all people will eventually be saved through the atoning work of Christ. Proponents of universalism must, therefore, maintain that there is no unforgivable sin. For if there were, then their theory that all people will be saved would be proven wrong.

Jesus said there was a sin that would not be forgiven in "this age or the age to come," Matt. 12:32:

"And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come."

A parallel passage is found in Luke 12:10. Jesus said,

"And everyone who will speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him."

Jesus stated, in Matt. 12:32, that there is a sin that is not forgivable either in "this age or the age to come." In Luke 12:10, He says blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven at all.

The universalist qualifies their belief by stating that "the age to come" is a future age which will terminate. Therefore, they conclude that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will be forgiven after the end of "the age to come." Therefore, when they say read Jesus' words in Luke 12:10, instead of them concluding that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit won't be forgiven, they conclude it will.

The important question then becomes "What is meant by 'this age and the age to come'?" Is Jesus dividing time into two periods? Are there only two ages or are there more than two?

Does either or both of these ages end?

I believe that the Jesus divided time into two ages and that all other ages mentioned in scripture fall within these two over-arching categories. Furthermore, "this age" is the time period we are in now, and "the age to come" is that future time when the Lord returns and eternity begins. Therefore, "the age to come" is without end.

How many ages are there?

" . . . and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in the one to come" (Eph. 1:20b-21).

This verse speaks about Jesus being seated at the Father's right hand and that He (Jesus) is above all rule and authority in this age and the age to come. Jesus' dominion will never end. Therefore, the age to come, singular, will not end either. This is why God the Father says of the Son, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever," (Heb. 1:8). Also, ". . . so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen," (1 Pet. 4:11).

Let's take a look at what the Bible says about "This Age and the Age to Come."

This Age

The Age to Come
will receive 100 times as much as what we lose (Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30).
People are given in marriage (Luke 20:34).
The wisdom of this world is the wisdom of this age
(1 Cor. 1:20).
The rulers of this age are coming to nothing (1 Cor. 2:6).
Satan is the god of this age (2 Cor. 4:4).
Jesus rescued us from the present evil age (Gal. 1:4).
The end of this age occurs at the return of Jesus (1 Cor. 15:23-24).
The tares are gathered and burned in the fire (Matt. 13:39).
We will receive eternal life (Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30).
We do not marry, (Luke 20:35).


Note that in the Greek, the phrase "the age to come" is always in the singular. It is speaking of a singular age to come where we will have eternal life.

As you can see, "this age" is obviously about the present time period because in it we have marriage, rulers, evil, etc. In the age to come, however, we receive eternal life and no marriage occurs. The future reference of receiving eternal life does not mean that we do not posses it now. 1 John 5:13, says we do. Rather, Jesus is speaking of the completion of our redemption, which includes our bodies as well. "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body," (1 Cor. 15:42). In the age to come, we enter into eternity because it is when we are resurrected. This happens at the return of Christ.

Eph. 2:5-7

There is one verse the New Testament that mentions ages in a future sense. The phrase is "ages to come" and it only occurs in Eph. 2:7

"even when we were dead in our transgressions, [He] made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus."

This statement is not saying that there are future ages, plural, which are not defined in scripture, anyway. Rather, it is a declaration that in the future state, the Christians will enjoy the "surpassing riches of His grace" -- in the totality of the future. The phrase "ages to come" is merely an expression.

This type of usage of "ages" to describe a very long time is also seen in Romans 16:25, "Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past," In Greek, "long ages past" is "cronos aioniois," which is literally "time eternal(s)". This phrase is not saying that there are literally eternal past "ages," but that in long times past, the mystery was hidden. Other verses with the same usage of ages past are 1 Cor. 2:7; 10:11; Eph. 3:9; Col. 1:26; Titus 1:2; and Heb. 9:26.

We can see from the table above, that all the ages past are under the umbrella of "this age" in which we have evil, suffering, etc.

The End of This Age

It is important to understand when "this age" ends because it will effect our understanding of the nature of "the age to come" and further clarify that the age to come is without end.

I have compiled a chart below to make this easier to see. The left column contains the events (resurrection, rapture, condemnation, etc.). To the right are the phrases used in the Bible to describe the event. With them are the verse locations.

The Event
Phrase and location describing when the event occurs

End of this Age
The Day of the Lord
Last Day
Last Trumpet

Resurrection of the dead
John 6:39,40,
44, 54;
11:24;
1 Cor. 15:52;
1 Thess. 4:16

Harvest/Rapture
(thief in the night)
Matt. 13:39
1 Thess. 4:16-5:2


Gathering of elect
Matt. 24:3,31
1 Thess. 5:2



Condemnation
1 Cor. 1:8
John 12:48


Wicked burned with fire
Matt. 13:40; 49-50


Destruction and Salvation
1 Cor. 5:5

Sun to darkness, moon to blood
Acts 2:20


New heavens and New Earth
2 Pet. 3:10

From the above chart you can see that all the events happen at the same time. The Resurrection occurs on the Last day (John 6:39-40), which is also the last trumpet (1 Cor. 15:52). The resurrection is just before the rapture (1 Thess. 4:16-5:2) which occurs on the Day of the Lord (1 Thess. 5:2) when Jesus returns (1 Thess. 4:16-5:2).

It is with/after Jesus' return, which is simultaneous with the rapture, the harvest, etc, that we receive our resurrected bodies and are forever with the Lord. It is then, the "age to come." This age will not end.

It is in "the age to come" that blasphemy is not forgiven. In other words, it isn't ever forgiven.

Heb. 6:6 and Heb. 10:26

There are two other verses, which also mention a unforgivable sins.

"For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame," (Heb. 6:4-6)

"For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving theknowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain terrifying expectation of judgment, and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries," (Heb. 10:26-27).

In the case of Heb. 6:6, repentance is an impossibility with those who have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit and then have fallen away. If this repentance is impossible, then so is forgiveness.

Likewise, in Heb. 10:26, "if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins."

The universalist’s want to have the sacrifice of Jesus cover, pay for, and remove the penalty of all people's sins who have ever lived. But, according to this verse, there is a point when the sacrifice of Jesus is no longer available to a person.

Conclusion

Therefore, the teaching that everyone will eventually be saved cannot be true. This age and the to come are two over-arching categories that divide human existence. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in the age to come.

At the end of this age, "the age to come" begins and it has no end.
Heb. 6:6 and Heb. 10:26 also show us that there are conditions of non-forgiveness.

Universalism is not true.
 
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The unforgivable sin and the age to come


Universalism teaches that all people will eventually be saved through the atoning work of Christ. Proponents of universalism must, therefore, maintain that there is no unforgivable sin. For if there were, then their theory that all people will be saved would be proven wrong.

Jesus said there was a sin that would not be forgiven in "this age or the age to come," Matt. 12:32:
And what about the age after that?
This age [age while we are living]
The age to come [age of the first resurection]
Then comes the age of the second resurection, the new heaven and new earth where all things are made new.

Next what does it mean to not be forgiven? Doesn't it mean that a price must be paid and when such price is paid there is nothing to be forgiven for as the price has been paid? The wage of sin is death. Does death exist after the second resurection?

What about the others that Jesus said would not be forgiven? I can't even count how many times I have saw some hell fire spewer bring up that one verse about blasphemy but they always seem to leve out the one that says if you do not forgive men thier trespasses you will not be forgiven.

The universalist qualifies their belief by stating that "the age to come" is a future age which will terminate. Therefore, they conclude that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will be forgiven after the end of "the age to come." Therefore, when they say read Jesus' words in Luke 12:10, instead of them concluding that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit won't be forgiven, they conclude it will.
I ask again what about those who have something against thier fellow man, Jesus also said that these will not be forgiven.

The important question then becomes "What is meant by 'this age and the age to come'?" Is Jesus dividing time into two periods? Are there only two ages or are there more than two?
Time is divided into multiple periods past ages, present age, future ages

Does either or both of these ages end?
Of course, the 1000 year reign of Jesus would be an age that has not yet started and will end, e.g. the age to come.

I believe that the Jesus divided time into two ages and that all other ages mentioned in scripture fall within these two over-arching categories. Furthermore, "this age" is the time period we are in now, and "the age to come" is that future time when the Lord returns and eternity begins. Therefore, "the age to come" is without end.
I see no logic, nor scriptural support for this conclusion.

How many ages are there?
Lots of them, ages past, present age, ages future all can be infered from the text. The number of them can not but one can reasonably assume that there are at least 5 as both past and future ages are refered to in the plural.

I see no reason to address the rest of the post as it just continues with the false assertion of there being only two ages which is easily shown by scripture to be incorrect.
 
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Hidden Manna

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Oh dear!

If you are correct, which I assure you your not, however will God become all in all?

care to explain that one?

If all mean all or everything like you are presenting to our understanding, does God become all in Satan. Care to explain that one to all of us poorly misinformed bible sudents.

It really amazes me that some people think all means absolutely everything everytime the bible mentions all as if when they use the word all they are referring to everything that ever existed once the begining of time.
 
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If all mean all or everything like you are presenting to our understanding, does God become all in Satan. Care to explain that one to all of us poorly misinformed bible sudents.

2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Most think this means that satan tricks people into thinking he is an angel of light but there is the possibility that satan himself can be transformed into an angel of light, after all with God all things are possible, right?

It really amazes me that some people think all means absolutely everything everytime the bible mentions all as if when they use the word all they are referring to everything that ever existed once the begining of time.
None of us think that the bible absolutely means all "everytime" the word all is used, there are some cases where it is obovious that it does not mean all mankind but there are some where it does, such as where it says that God wills all men to be saved and that he is the savior of all men just to name a couple.
 
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Hidden Manna

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2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Most think this means that satan tricks people into thinking he is an angel of light but there is the possibility that satan himself can be transformed into an angel of light, after all with God all things are possible, right?

None of us think that the bible absolutely means all "everytime" the word all is used, there are some cases where it is obovious that it does not mean all mankind but there are some where it does, such as where it says that God wills all men to be saved and that he is the savior of all men just to name a couple.


All mankind who are believers yes and all of those who are of the elect will be saved.

Another thing I just don't get is why do people present hell as if it is a literal lake of fire which burns forever. If you look up the first verse about hell it is simple God's anger as a result of people rejecting Him and His ways. To then hell is just a spiritual place where the souls of unrepent sinners are in a state of being under God's wrath or anger because they choose to reject God. Once they physically die they have lost the ability to repent because they are dead.

Universalist present that they can repent after physical death because of there misinformed bibical interpretations of God's word.

Once a person dies they no longer can choose with a free will or mind. Just take a look at all the grave yards do you see any of the physically dead choosing to get up and walk around.
 
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Hidden Manna

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And what about the age after that?
This age [age while we are living]
The age to come [age of the first resurection]
Then comes the age of the second resurection, the new heaven and new earth where all things are made new.

Next what does it mean to not be forgiven? Doesn't it mean that a price must be paid and when such price is paid there is nothing to be forgiven for as the price has been paid? The wage of sin is death. Does death exist after the second resurection?

What about the others that Jesus said would not be forgiven? I can't even count how many times I have saw some hell fire spewer bring up that one verse about blasphemy but they always seem to leve out the one that says if you do not forgive men thier trespasses you will not be forgiven.

I ask again what about those who have something against thier fellow man, Jesus also said that these will not be forgiven.

Time is divided into multiple periods past ages, present age, future ages

Of course, the 1000 year reign of Jesus would be an age that has not yet started and will end, e.g. the age to come.

I see no logic, nor scriptural support for this conclusion.

Lots of them, ages past, present age, ages future all can be infered from the text. The number of them can not but one can reasonably assume that there are at least 5 as both past and future ages are refered to in the plural.

I see no reason to address the rest of the post as it just continues with the false assertion of there being only two ages which is easily shown by scripture to be incorrect.


The Biblical Last Days.

To understand out study of the “last days” and show how it could be possible, they were fulfilled in the last days of the Old Covenant there are three very important Biblical truths that must be established. First, the years from the cross to the desolation of Jewish system in Jerusalem in the A.D. 70 is the last days of the covenant of the law. It is stated time and again that the New Testament was written in the final years of the “world that then was,” otherwise known as the Old Covenant or Old Testament era (Heb. 1:2). This is the period of the “last days”, or “end of the age,” which saw its fulfillment.

By presenting Scripture in such a way, as to allow it to speak for itself, we will see that the New Testament is a collection of books written in the “last days” of the Old Covenant, all of which display the ‘earnest expectation’ of the believers that the last days would be in their lifetimes.

Second, The faithfulness of God. Remember, God is faithful, II Peter 3:9. “God is not a man that he should lie,” Numbers 23:19. The faithfulness of God not only involves doing WHAT has been promised, it means doing it WHEN IT WAS PROMISED

Third, The time statements in the Bible. In Daniel 10-12 is a vision encompassing a period of time from 536 BC to the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD; about 600 years. Two times in this text Daniel was told “the appointed time is long” and “the vision refers to many days to come” (10:1,14). Remember, this vision was relayed to Daniel from God. While God is not bound by time, he was communicating to man who is bound to time. God called this 600 year period of time “long;” he said it involved “many days.” God can most assuredly tell time and read a calendar!

Before we begin our study on the last days let me first say that while God is not bound by time like man when God speaks to man He speaks in a language that man can understand, thus when something is said to happens “soon” in man’s time God is recognized as “faithful and true” to His promise when it is fulfilled. God gives us an illustrations of His “true faithfulness” in the event of the birth of Isaac. Isaac was born at the set time of which God promised Abraham (see Genesis 18:13-14; 21:1-3)

The Bible says it is inspired, II Timothy 3:16. The original word translated “inspired” literally means “God breathed.” The thought of the Bible being from God suggests that since God is perfect or infallible, and the Bible is from Him it ought to be infallible as well. Specifically, if the Bible made a promise that something would happen within a specified time frame, if that event did not happen when and as promised the Bible’s claim to inspiration falls.

It is Jehovah himself that gave the criteria for determining whether a prophet was true or false; if a prophet’s prediction did not come true (within the time the prophet said it would) he was a false prophet, (see Deuteronomy 18:19-22) If God does not keep the when part of his promises, he has not kept his promise! The inspiration of the scriptures demands complete fulfillment of every aspect of God’s promises.

God’s years are endless; “from everlasting to everlasting thou art God” Psalms 90:2. Isaiah calls Jehovah “the Father of eternity” 9:6-9. However when God communicate with man, he uses (time statements) that man can understand. What are time statements?
The time statements are how “God communicates with man in terms of Time.” The time statements are literal imminent statements as seen in (Genesis 18:13-14; 21:1-3) The time statements refer to soon events of Jewish importance.

In Ezekiel 7, God through Ezekiel said the Day of the Lord was at hand. The Day of the Lord in this context was when God used Babylon to punish Israel for her sin. This is the concept of the Day of the Lord; it is not an “end of time” idea. It is when God used a nation to punish another as it related to his chosen people. In chapter 11 Israel responded to the threat of coming judgment. They insisted that although Ezekiel said it was at hand it was really not. It was time to build houses, not worry about judgment. One can almost hear some of those people: “Well, yes, Ezekiel has said the Day of the Lord is at hand, but after all, ‘one day is with the Lord as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day,’ Psalms 90:4”

When Israel “elasticized” God’s words of imminence into relativity, ambiguity and meaning-less-ness, God responded. In Ezekiel 12:21ff, [Please, take the time to get your Bible and read it for yourself!] Adonai told Ezekiel to tell Israel that her days of changing the time for his predictions were over. He had said judgment was at hand; Israel said it was not at hand. Jehovah would not tolerate it.

Ezekiel was instructed to tell Israel that in that generation judgment would fall just as Jehovah had indicated when he said it was at hand. [Have you read those verses for yourself yet? If not, why not do it right now and see for yourself that what we are saying is true?] What we have then, is an example of man saying that while God had said something was imminent it really was not; it was for a long time off. We have God’s response; when God said “at hand” he meant “at hand!” He did not mean hundreds or thousands of years; he meant “soon!” God, Himself rebukes this interpretation of His time statements. “God employed the language of humanity to communicate His message in the Bible to humanity in humanity’s own time statements.

Another example of man changing the meaning of God’s time words is in Amos. God warned Israel the time had come for her to be judged, 8:2-3. In spite of the warnings Israel “put far off the evil day.” In spite of God’s warning that judgment was at hand they insisted “All things continue as they were,” They refused to believe God meant “the end has come.” As a result God said “Woe” to them for putting of His words! 6:3. As we have just seen if God do not keep the when part of the time statements then He has not kept his promise! Jehovah would not tolerate this interpretation of His time statements. He rebukes it Himself in scripture.

Most honest students of the Bible already realize that the New Testament is full of time statements that point to an imminent last days of the Old Covenant. Once Scripture is allowed to speak for itself, one cannot honestly deny the overwhelming amount of Scripture passages which declare that the last day prophecies were to “shortly come to pass.” By listing these numerous verses, we can see that the first century saints believed they were living in the last days of the Old Covenant. Peter specifies. “Who (Christ) verily was fore ordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.” (1 Peter 1:20)

The apostle John made a similar statement: 1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. Here, the same word “eschatos” is used for “last.” However, the Greek word for “time” is slightly different, though very related: it is the Greek word “hora” defined by Strong’s as: 5610. hora, ho’-rah; appar. a prim. word; an “hour” (lit. or fig.):--day, hour, instant, season, X short, [even-] tide, (high) time.

John believed they were in the last or farthest season or hour of the Jewish age.

Peter specifies the range of this period, commonly called the “last days,” in his sermon in Acts 2:16-21. He declares that, it was fulfilling the prophecy of (Joel 2:28-32). What is significant about Peter’s statement is that he was claiming that they were in the last days. The writer of Hebrews expressed this identical sentiment as he began his discourse comparing the fading Old Covenant with the Everlasting New Covenant:

Hebrews 1:1-2 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, {2} Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Jesus was manifested, not at the beginning, or start of the last days but “during the last days.” The period between A.D. 30 and 70 is, as the apostle Peter describes it, “these last times” (1 Peter 1:20).

“Hath in these last days” the writer confirms. Without any speculation those in the first century believed they were in the last days. Certainly the writers of the New Testament were very aware of those passages we have studied involving the last days of Judah and Jerusalem. Therefore it is safe and logical to say that the New Testament writers believed that they were in the last days of the Jewish age.

The apostle John made this time statement: 1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. Here, the same word “eschatos” is used for “last.” However, the Greek word for “time” is slightly different, though very related: it is the Greek word “hora” defined by Strong’s as: 5610. hora, ho’-rah; appar. a prim. word; an “hour” (lit. or fig.):--day, hour, instant, season, X short, [even-] tide, (high) time.

John believed they were in the last or farthest season or hour of the Jewish age. Paul believed the same:

Rom 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. There are two different Greek words used here translated as “time.” In the first cause Paul says “knowing the time.” The Greek word here is “2540. kairos, kahee-ros’; of uncert. affin.; an occasion, i.e. set or proper time:--X always, opportunity, (convenient, due) season, (due, short, while) time, a while. Comp. G5550.” Strong’s.

In the second clause Paul uses the phrase “high time.” “High time” is the same Greek word used in first John. Both Paul and John firmly believed that they were in the last time or days of the Jewish age. Paul believed they were living in the end of the Jewish age as well: 1 Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the age are come.

Paul was describing the history of the Jews and their rebellion against God in the wilderness. We should not ignore the fact that Paul, in discussing the ancient rebellion which took place in the wilderness says it was written for their admonition, upon whom the ends of the age are come.

New consider the time statements of James as he addressed the unbelieving Jews: James 5:1-4 Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth eaten. Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. Clearly James taught that these men were in the last days.

Jude, in describing the same group of unbelieving Jews, also speaks of this period, although with a different phrase: But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. (Jude 1:17-18)

The word “time” is the Greek word chronos, defined by Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance as: 5550. chronos, khron’-os; a space of time. The word “last” is defined as: 2078. eschatos, es’-khat-os; a superl. prob. from G2192 (in the sense of contiguity); farthest, final (of place or time):--ends of, last, latter end, lowest, uttermost. Certainly we can conclude from Jude that they were in the farthest or uttermost space of time of the Jewish age. They were in the last days of the Jewish state.

The impression of the Apostles is the nearness of ‘the end’ is worthy of notice that there is a marked gradation in the language of the different epistles. Going from know that in the last days perilous times will come To the last times and the last times became the last days, and the last days become the last hour [escath wra esti]. The period of expectation and delay was now over and the decisive moment was at hand. “And that, knowing the time.. The night is far spent, the day is at hand. (“Romans 13:11-12)

There are many other passages that could be used to support the fact that the first-century believers and particularly the apostles believed unanimously that they were in the end of the Jewish age or the last days of the Jewish age. The fact is that anytime Scripture uses the phase “last days” it means, a period from 30-70 AD. This was the period during which the Apostles were preaching and writing, the “last days” of Old Covenant Israel before it was forever destroyed in the destruction of the Temple (and the Old Covenant sacrificial system) not the end of the world or physical universe.
 
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Soul Searcher

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All mankind who are believers yes and all of those who are of the elect will be saved.

Another thing I just don't get is why do people present hell as if it is a literal lake of fire which burns forever. If you look up the first verse about hell it is simple God's anger as a result of people rejecting Him and His ways. To then hell is just a spiritual place where the souls of unrepent sinners are in a state of being under God's wrath or anger because they choose to reject God. Once they physically die they have lost the ability to repent because they are dead.

Universalist present that they can repent after physical death because of there misinformed bibical interpretations of God's word.

Once a person dies they no longer can choose with a free will or mind. Just take a look at all the grave yards do you see any of the physically dead choosing to get up and walk around.

Yet the bible tells us that there will be a resurection of the just and the unjust, that he is the savior of all men, especially them that believe, that unto him every knee shall bend and every tongue shall swear.

It looks to me that you have some misinformed biblical interpretations yourself ;)
 
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Soul Searcher

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The Biblical Last Days.
Interesting that you did not directly address my post here even though you quoted it.

There are many other passages that could be used to support the fact that the first-century believers and particularly the apostles believed unanimously that they were in the end of the Jewish age or the last days of the Jewish age.
Yes they believed they were in the last days of the age as do many people today, but that in no way supports your claim that thier are only two ages.

Why not address what I posted about past, present and future ages?
 
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Pneuma3

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When I tried to explain the narrow gate as in Matt. 7:13-14 ) as mentioned above the Forum Police deleted the post. Pretty hard to debate a truth when your not allowed to express your understanding. But that is the problem when someone dare speak outside the orthadox box.

I find that strange as well, we are in the unorthadox section and still get deleted.

I understand the mods deleting post not in the unorthadox section if we post in them, but this place should be free for us to express our views as most see them as unothadox.

I mean after all this section is called the unorthadox section.
 
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