Forcing Cesar to live as a Christian

Argent

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I have a friend who is a pastor. He describes himself as a "conscientious objector in the culture war". He considers is "unmissional" for a Christian to oppose something like same-sex civil marriage, or civil divorce, or anti-discrimination legislation regarding housing or employment. He believes to oppose these things is to try to force "cesar" i.e. non-christians to live as Christians.

BTW, he's a Baptist pastor in rural appalachian Kentucky, not here in liberal New York City.
 

lioninoil

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I have a friend who is a pastor. He describes himself as a "conscientious objector in the culture war". He considers is "unmissional" for a Christian to oppose something like same-sex civil marriage, or civil divorce, or anti-discrimination legislation regarding housing or employment. He believes to oppose these things is to try to force "cesar" i.e. non-christians to live as Christians.

BTW, he's a Baptist pastor in rural appalachian Kentucky, not here in liberal New York City.

Sounds to me like "Caesar" is trying to force Christians to live like Caesar, e.g. to live like non-Christians and endorse sinful lifestyles.

There's nothing wrong with forcing non-Christians to live like Christians. We Christians are the ones who have something to offer non-Christians -- not the other way around.
 
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bammertheblue

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I have a friend who is a pastor. He describes himself as a "conscientious objector in the culture war". He considers is "unmissional" for a Christian to oppose something like same-sex civil marriage, or civil divorce, or anti-discrimination legislation regarding housing or employment. He believes to oppose these things is to try to force "cesar" i.e. non-christians to live as Christians.

BTW, he's a Baptist pastor in rural appalachian Kentucky, not here in liberal New York City.

I don't think that disagreeing with homosexuality for religious reasons makes it acceptable to discriminate against gay people in housing, employment, or any other part of life. I don't think churches should be forced to marry gay couples if they think it's wrong, but I do think that to treat gay people any differently from straight people in daily interactions is very unChristlike. So I guess that I mostly agree with your friend.
 
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Paulos23

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Sounds to me like "Caesar" is trying to force Christians to live like Caesar, e.g. to live like non-Christians and endorse sinful lifestyles.

There's nothing wrong with forcing non-Christians to live like Christians. We Christians are the ones who have something to offer non-Christians -- not the other way around.
Other way around, there is a problem with forcing anyone to follow any religion. That is why there is a separation of church and state.

I am tired of some Christians claiming that they are being repressed because they can't force their views on other people. Your being stopped because your actions are against the Constitution, not because your Christian.
 
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jayem

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There's nothing wrong with forcing non-Christians to live like Christians.


An appalling statement.

Are you saying that civil government, in a secular society, should have the authority to enforce specific theological doctrines? Would there be equally nothing wrong with a Muslim saying that everyone should be forced to live as a Muslim?

And there are some huge differences in what Christians believe, and how Christians live. So what kind of "Christian" should all the rest of us be forced to emulate? Should we be forced to live like the Quakers, or the Amish, or the Anglicans, or the Catholics, or the Mormons? How do you decide which kind of Christian is the "right" one?

This is one of the most outrageous comments I've seen here.
 
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lioninoil

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Are you saying that civil government, in a secular society, should have the authority to enforce specific theological doctrines? Would there be equally nothing wrong with a Muslim saying that everyone should be forced to live as a Muslim?

In Saudi Arabia and Iran, everybody is required to live as a Muslim. I see no reason why we shouldn't do the same thing in America, which is a Christian nation established by Christians, for Christians. As a Christian nation, we can (and should) require everybody to live as a Christian -- or at least offer a higher class of citizenship to Christians. People who do not want to abide by established Christian beliefs and norms are free to live elsewhere.

And there are some huge differences in what Christians believe, and how Christians live. So what kind of "Christian" should all the rest of us be forced to emulate? Should we be forced to live like the Quakers, or the Amish, or the Anglicans, or the Catholics, or the Mormons? How do you decide which kind of Christian is the "right" one?

It should be self-evident to any Christian what a Christian is supposed to believe and how a Christian is supposed to live. As an atheist, you would not know this -- but it still does not relieve you of the responsibility of living like a Christian if you are going to CHOOSE to live in a Christian society.
 
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Mling

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Jesus's instruction to the disciples, in the event that they found people who would not accept their teachings:
Matthew 10:14 said:
If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town.

Jesus must have just forgotten to mention, "Become Ceasar, who will oppress you and try to force you to worship falsely: Take over their government and force them to live an unwilling mockery of my teachings under penalty of law."

All that "innocent as doves," "walk away and leave them alone" stuff---he was just joking there. What he really meant to say was, "become like your enemy, become the oppressors."

Don't worry about these unbelievers, lion, I've got your back.
 
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In Saudi Arabia and Iran, everybody is required to live as a Muslim. I see no reason why we shouldn't do the same thing in America, which is a Christian nation established by Christians, for Christians. As a Christian nation, we can (and should) require everybody to live as a Christian -- or at least offer a higher class of citizenship to Christians. People who do not want to abide by established Christian beliefs and norms are free to live elsewhere.

Your ignorance of our history and or the principles of our Constitution is obvious. The very First Amendment was designed to stop people exactly like you, people this nation was founded to get away from.

The Second Amendment gives us the means to stop people like you.

but it still does not relieve you of the responsibility of living like a Christian if you are going to CHOOSE to live in a Christian society.

This isn't a Christian society, it's a free society. You're views are as anti-American, and anti-freedom as any Muslim terrorist we kill in the Mid East.

It's you that need to leave and find a Christian country where they don't mind forcing Christianity upon others.

I hear Fiji is a good place for freedom hating theocrats, they still have sodomy laws there.
 
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jayem

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Is this what's called dominionism? I've heard about it, but don't think I've ever really come across a dominionist before.

I gotta admit, it's kind of fascinating in a repellant sort of way. Like gawking at body parts smeared across a highway after an accident.
 
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christalee4

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In Saudi Arabia and Iran, everybody is required to live as a Muslim. I see no reason why we shouldn't do the same thing in America, which is a Christian nation established by Christians, for Christians. As a Christian nation, we can (and should) require everybody to live as a Christian -- or at least offer a higher class of citizenship to Christians. People who do not want to abide by established Christian beliefs and norms are free to live elsewhere.

It should be self-evident to any Christian what a Christian is supposed to believe and how a Christian is supposed to live. As an atheist, you would not know this -- but it still does not relieve you of the responsibility of living like a Christian if you are going to CHOOSE to live in a Christian society.

So, you're one of those dominionist theocrat kinda guys; espousing a theocracy in which the "kinder gentler" Christians "allow" others who don't follow their interpretation of religion to exist as second class citizens, or be kicked out, or be put to death for "crimes". The problem is, which Christian credo are you going to follow? Who gets to decide which of God's law to implement and follow through on? What if people wanted to resist implementation of a Christian nation? I assume, like in Saudi Arabia, they would be executed as heretics. It's people like you that make me realize what we are fighting in the war against terror - religious fundamentalism, and the oppressive governments it seeks to spawn.
 
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seebs

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I have a friend who is a pastor. He describes himself as a "conscientious objector in the culture war". He considers is "unmissional" for a Christian to oppose something like same-sex civil marriage, or civil divorce, or anti-discrimination legislation regarding housing or employment. He believes to oppose these things is to try to force "cesar" i.e. non-christians to live as Christians.

BTW, he's a Baptist pastor in rural appalachian Kentucky, not here in liberal New York City.

Very insightful of him.
 
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Yusuf Evans

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Argent, your friend has a point. Paul tells us in in Romans that all governments are in power because the Lord put them in power. He also tells us in 1 Cor 5 that we are not to judge non-believers, but to befriend them in the hopes that they will accept Christ. Christianity has always been about choice. Either you choose this, or you choose that.

Christ was not political, so I'm not understanding why so many Christians advocate the formation of a theocratical government in our nation. The ideals our country was founded may have had some Christian influence, but it's not significant enough to tout this country was founded on Christian virtues.
 
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