Backsliding

[fields316_2000]

Can someone tell me all the scriptures the PROVE that if you die while backsliding you'll go to hell? i have read them but in the heat of the moment talking with someone i couldnt come up with anything better than
heb. 6: 4 -6
heb 10: 26 -29

can someone once and for all illustrate all there is to settle this? the arguement was as such-

my thinking is that if you die a backslider living in sin (with out repenting) you will not be remembered by christ.

her thinking was that once you are saved thats all that needs to happen.

also who all thinks judas went to hell for killing himself?

 

[MariaRegina]

We are not to judge others. Even Judas could have been repentant at that last moment.

Therefore, we should pray for all men that they will be saved.

Hell is mentioned in the Bible. Due to free will, Jesus will honor the request of those who desire to be forever separated from Him. Christ our God will not force anyone to go to heaven against his or her own will. Going to heaven can be compared with going to church. If a child doesn't want to go to church, then the service will be horrible for him. We go to Church to worship God. In Heaven, we will be forever worshiping God. So if the idea of worshiping God for all eternity sounds like hell -- it will be hell. This is a sign that we are not saved or are backsliding.

God gave us free will -- the ability to choose between good and evil -- The ability to love Him or to hate Him -- The ability to love and serve Him, or to reject Him. We can change our minds. This is the exercise of free will. This is what Adam and Eve did in the Garden of Eden. They used their free will to eat the forbidden fruit and the rest is history.

Let's take a person who is a new Christian but who is also a recovering alcoholic. He knows that if he drinks alcohol, he cannot stop himself. He visits a friend. Now he knows his enabling friend will probably offer him a drink. (Mistake #1) Then his friend offers him a drink, as expected. Free will lets him decide if he should leave at that point or stay and gradually be persuaded to just have "one for the road." So he stays. (Mistake #2) and then freely decides to have one drink. (Mistake #3) Then he craves one drink after another until he is totally smashed. (He's a gonner now.)

This is the slippery slope folks. This is backsliding. Once you accept a temptation to do what you know is sinful by thought, word, or deed, you have freely chosen evil and will be accountable for it to God. Yes, Christians can fall into sin and reject God. Didn't Hitler, Stalin and Judas reject God? ]

An alcoholic can become sober and sincerely promise God that he will not backslide but then find himself in the midst of an overwhelming temptation. Does this mean that everytime he accepts Jesus and then falls into a sinful habit that he was never saved to begin with? That somehow his sincere intention to do good was not sincere. That sounds so wrong.

A child of God, can fall from Divine Grace. Even still, a child of God can overcome his sinful habits by prayer and fasting. God does answer our prayers, but we must pray with sincerity. Did not Jesus say in the Holy Bible that certain demons (bad habits) could only be cast out by prayer and fasting? This is why we have the Church. If we are weak, then we can ask another Christian to pray with us for strength to overcome temptation. This is what AA is all about - Christian fellowship. It was started by Christians.

So can a Christian backslide and end up in hell? Yes, Judas probably is in hell. Although we don't know for sure. Hitler and Stalin (both Christians at one point in their lives) are probably in hell too. Again, we don't know for sure, but all three rejected Christ.

So if you find that you are backsliding -- go to Church, pray regularly and read the Holy Bible. Remember, God is only a prayer away. He's everywhere and loves you -- that is why He died and gave us His Holy Church.

You may PM me if you have any further questions.

Sincerely yours in Christ our God,
Elizabeth

 

[Rafael]

God can save the backslider, but no Christian would want to reap from a life sown to the wind. A person that calls themselves by God's name but does not live according to the Word is a hypocrite. God speaks of spewing the luke warm out of His mouth, and one who actually is in a backslidden condition would surely not be called on fire for God.....in my opinion, but be in danger of being spewed out.
Do a word study on hypocrites, and also what it means to take God's name in vain and even the Lord's supper in vain. A persons health can even be affected by taking the Lord's supper in vain according to scripture.

Proverbs 30:8 Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:
9 Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the LORD? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain.

God knew Judas before he was born and that he would be a devil.

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

 

[fields316_2000]

my thought is lets say someone gets saved and lives saved..but then degenerates into a sinful lifestyle..say homosexuality. thats a sinful LIFESTYLE that he knew would be against gods will..thats the backslider im speaking about..everyone falls short every day ..but constantly persueing the lord is what we should be doing ...where as someone thats raining men should go and get recommited..

 

[inHisSteps]

The reality is that there is nothing in the Bible that proves that backsliding or even suicide will send you to hell, regardless of if you are saved or not. Once a person is saved, he or she is ALWAYS saved. There are several verses that show this:

We are held in God's hand and NOTHING can pluck us out - John 10:27-29
Nothing can separate us from God's love which is in Christ - Romans 8:29-39
We are God's children upon salvation; just as your child will ALWAYS be your child, and your father will ALWAYS be your father, so it is with the saved individual - John 1:12
Eternal life is eternal (notice the use of "Have" & "Hath"; this word in the Greek is a present active indicative verb, meaning that the person is CONTINUALLY having; also notice that there is no 'May' before 'have') - John 3:16,17; I John 5:10-13
Christ is the foundation of our salvation - I Corinthians 3:11-15 "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire."


The only prerequisite to this is that this person is truly saved. That is they have at one point in their life:
1. Acknowledged that they are a sinner: Romans 3:23
2. The price for sin is death: Romans 6:23
3. Realize that there is nothing they can do to save themselves: Titus 3:5
4. God sent His son, Jesus Christ to save us: Romans 5:8; Luke 19:10; John 3:17
5. Believe on His son and accept Him as your personal savior: Acts 4:12; John 1:12

In regards to the passages you have outlined:
Heb. 6:4-6
The passage is actually one sentence. If you take those verses and read it as one sentence, you will see that it says something to the effect that it is impossible for those who are are saved (once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift...) that if they sin, to be saved ONCE AGAIN (to renew them again unto repentance), because it would mean that Christ's death was not sufficient the first time to pay for whatever sin was committed and therefore would be an open shame to Christ, who claims to be (and is) almighty.

Heb 10:26-29
This passage speaks about the judgement someone who has committed the sin of apostasy, described in v29, will receive: someone "who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing" In other words, someone who has trampled Christ's name on the ground, considered His atoning blood as powerless. It describes someone who is in a state that they could not possibly be saved because of their heart condition and has willingly and consciously rejected Christ. Thus, it is the sin of unbelief that condemns.

Who all thinks judas went to hell for killing himself?
Judas went to hell not for killing himself but because he was not saved. It is possible that people can go to church all their lives, say all the right things, even get baptized and still not be saved. The same was the case with Christ teaching Judas (and many others) and still they were not saved (Mark 14:49). In Matthew, which accounts Judas' betrayal's aftermath in Chapter 27, the Bible says that Judas "repented himself (v3)," not to God, whom He sinned against. Also notice that in verse 4, the only sin he recognized was the sin of betrayal of 'innocent blood'. Not the sin of rejection of Christ and His deity. Indeed, Christ himself gave him an opportunity to reconsider his actions with the pointed question in Luke 22:48, "But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?"

 

[inHisSteps]

In reference to the backslider degenerating into great sin, the Bible is clear that sin is still sin, be it having impure thoughts (Mat 5:28), stealing (Ex 20:15), being unforgiving, Mat 18:21-22), or homosexuality (Rom 1:24-26)

James 2:10 still calls sin sin, and there are no 'little sins' or 'big sins'
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

 

[Rafael]

my thought is lets say someone gets saved and lives saved..but then degenerates into a sinful lifestyle..say homosexuality. thats a sinful LIFESTYLE that he knew would be against gods will..thats the backslider im speaking about..everyone falls short every day ..but constantly persueing the lord is what we should be doing ...where as someone thats raining men should go and get recommited..

The best advice for backsliding is don't. It ruins a person's confidence in the Lord and makes a person fearful of His return. Several times in scripture God warns that the fearful will be cast out of His presence. As far as once saved always saved goes, only God know who the elect are because of His power to know the beginning to the end of each person's life. We don't have such power and are told to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith or reprobate. If we are reprobate, then we know the consequences if we will accept the clear definition of them in scripture. Nobody wants to suffer the fear of having the master reurn and find His servant doing wickedly.
Now if a person has a particular sin to battle through life, they have to keep trying with an honest effort to overcome by what God has given us to overcome by - that being the blood of the lamb, and our testimony must relect that battle and not just a giving in to the flesh.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

1 John 3:21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

 

[StuckRags]

When is backsliding, backsliding? Where is the limit. How many sins do you have to commit within what timeframe to be called a backslider? How many times must you neglect to ask forgiveness of your sins for that day to become a backslider?

My point is, if backsliding sends you to hell, then there must be some forumula that God uses to decide. But, does God use forumulas? I don't think so.

 

[MinDach]

Backsliding and turning your back on God are two different things. I think we may just be a little harder on our own self, then God is. I believe God knows our heart in all matters, so I will let him do the judging.

 

[marc]

I have had the once saved always saved debate with many brothers and sisters. My conclusion is this. We can never know for sure who is and who isn't, I think the baptist's will be very surprized to see who is not in heaven with us and I think the "predestinationist's" will be very surprized who is in heaven with us. My final answer is you are resposible for you and just make sure you are always without a shadow of a doubt, saved.

My personal opinion is that you can give back the gift of God. You can't lose it, but you can give it back. Heb 6.

I even have another opinion, I believe that God will come to every human being at the split moment of death and personally offer them salvation, they can, last chance, take it or leave it.

Lord bless you

 

[MariaRegina]

I even have another opinion, I believe that God will come to every human being at the split moment of death and personally offer them salvation, they can, last chance, take it or leave it.

Lord bless you

Our Lord said that He will come like a thief in the night, and that we should be watching and waiting.

If your personal opinion above is true, how can a man who had hardened his heart against the Lord ever repent in a few minutes?

Therefore, we must all pray and repent all the days of our life. If we fall into sin, immediately repent, trust in God, and continue to walk with the Lord.

St. John said that he who doesn't admit that he is a sinner, is a liar. We are all sinners. The Bible tells us to confess our sins to one another. Why? So that we are accountable to another Christian who knows us and can help us stay on the narrow road to heaven. That is why people in AA are urged to admit their guilt to another person. That is why some Protestant churches have altar calls in which the new Christians are urged to come forward and publicly confess their sins to the pastor. That is why Episcopal, Lutheran, Catholic and Orthodox Christians have the Sacrament of Confession.

The difference between one who goes to hell and the other to heaven is a matter of the heart. The true Christian is repentant and therefore saved because he has confessed his sins, asked forgiveness, and changed his way of thinking to always walk in the way of the Lord.

Finally, to be ready to face that Great Judgment Day, we must forgive those who have trespassed against us. No bearers of grudges are allowed in heaven. We will be forgiven by Christ in the measure that we forgive others. Love is incompatible with hatred and bearing grudges. We must love our enemies. Read Corinthians 13.

Praying that all may be saved in Christ.
Elizabeth

 

[marc]

Our Lord said that He will come like a thief in the night, and that we should be watching and waiting.

If your personal opinion above is true, how can a man who had hardened his heart against the Lord ever repent in a few minutes?



So, was Jesus lying when he told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him today in paradise. He repented in a matter of minutes.
According to your logic, how long would it take for someone to be saved? When I initially gave my life to Jesus it only took about 1 minute and I knew I was a sinner. If I died 2 minutes after would I be saved?

Marc

 

[Boanerge]

Backsliding is a state of being, For example, by accepting Christ, you made a 180 turn to God, then turned back around another 180 degrees when falling into temptation and staying there, at that moment you are turned away from God. This is where a backslider stands concerning God. The longer you stay with your back turned the more your sins multiply, like cancer.

there are, i believe three stages. The thought of turning back, the process of actually turning back, and the thought to remain with your back turned.

those in the last stage, who made the complete turn away from God, what would make them want to turn back? after realising what they have done, their own guilt makes it difficult, even impossible to turn back to God. This is what the Hebrew writer meant.

someone in the last state will find it impossible to turn around. Those of the second find it difficult but God will receive them easily, Those of the first stage, are troubled by temptation but get back up. and those of first are us christians every day.

Now there are those who have never faced God, and there are those who want to turn around and face God but don't know how.. These people i don't speak about, I talk about people who have been in the presence of the Lord, like Hebrew says, has tasted the blessings, and choose to turn around and remain with their back turns, for these people it would be impossible to repent.

Think about it, if they fell away, yet being christians, they most likely don't find anything wrong with the sin, why would they want to repent?

They will either twist the bible or eventually feel that the bible is meaningless to them.

These people say "lord lord" with their mouths but their hearts are far from Him.

There were times where even i thought some of my sins can be justified. in order to make it seem like i commited no sin. And therefore, in trying to justify my sins i commit a sin in itself. now i had two times the sins than before. When all i had to do was repent and turn about face before God.

 

[MariaRegina]

Our Lord said that He will come like a thief in the night, and that we should be watching and waiting.

If your personal opinion above is true, how can a man who had hardened his heart against the Lord ever repent in a few minutes?

So, was Jesus lying when he told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him today in paradise. He repented in a matter of minutes.
According to your logic, how long would it take for someone to be saved? When I initially gave my life to Jesus it only took about 1 minute and I knew I was a sinner. If I died 2 minutes after would I be saved?

Marc

Dear Marc:

Re: repentance
Truly a person could repent in one second if he accepts God's grace. But look what happened to the Egyptian Pharaoh in the time of Moses! He hardened his heart, and it appears that he was not saved, as he was drowned in the Red Sea.

"If today you hear the voice of the Lord, harden not your heart."

If a person deliberately says "no" to God's graces, then the next time grace is offered, he may not accept that grace either, because of the presence of a bad habit of rejecting the grace of God due to rebelliousness and pride.

Re: The Good Thief
The Thief at Calvary noticed how patiently Christ was enduring the Crucifixion and he realized that he himself was a sinner, that he was guilty, and that he deserved to die. He also knew that Christ was innocent, was a King, and was truly God. All these expressed beliefs were signs of this thief's faith. Truly Christ gave this thief a special grace which enabled him to repent and ask Christ to receive him into His Kingdom. The point is: This good thief was saved by grace while the other thief died unrepentant even though the good thief tried to reach out to him.

If you accept the grace of God, and repent of your sins, even as you breathe your last breath, you will be saved. Our God is a loving God who wills the salvation of all who come to Him in repentance.

Some people become jealous about this and complain: Why should we be good all our life and get the same wages (heaven) as someone who converted on their death bed? Christ addresses these feelings of jealousy in the Parables of the Prodigal Son and the Laborers in the Vineyard. There is more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than a thousand righteous souls. Whether a Christian converts in his youth or on his deathbed, he will attain heaven, if he is repentant.

Today many people want to enjoy life to the full and commit all sorts of sins: eat, drink, and be merry -- they think they can repent at the last moment -- but their hearts may be hardened -- and it maybe too late for them to change their ways. It's best not to wait, the time of repentance is now, while we have breath and when we are offered that precious grace of repentance.

"If today you hear the voice of the Lord, harden not your heart."

Yours truly,
Elizabeth

 

[marc]

Dear Marc:

Re: repentance
Truly a person could repent in one second if he accepts God's grace. But look what happened to the Egyptian Pharaoh in the time of Moses! He hardened his heart, and it appears that he was not saved, as he was drowned in the Red Sea.

"If today you hear the voice of the Lord, harden not your heart."

If a person deliberately says "no" to God's graces, then the next time grace is offered, he may not accept that grace either, because of the presence of a bad habit of rejecting the grace of God due to rebelliousness and pride.

Re: The Good Thief
The Thief at Calvary noticed how patiently Christ was enduring the Crucifixion and he realized that he himself was a sinner, that he was guilty, and that he deserved to die. He also knew that Christ was innocent, was a King, and was truly God. All these expressed beliefs were signs of this thief's faith. Truly Christ gave this thief a special grace which enabled him to repent and ask Christ to receive him into His Kingdom. The point is: This good thief was saved by grace while the other thief died unrepentant even though the good thief tried to reach out to him.

If you accept the grace of God, and repent of your sins, even as you breathe your last breath, you will be saved. Our God is a loving God who wills the salvation of all who come to Him in repentance.

Some people become jealous about this and complain: Why should we be good all our life and get the same wages (heaven) as someone who converted on their death bed? Christ addresses these feelings of jealousy in the Parables of the Prodigal Son and the Laborers in the Vineyard. There is more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than a thousand righteous souls. Whether a Christian converts in his youth or on his deathbed, he will attain heaven, if he is repentant.

Today many people want to enjoy life to the full and commit all sorts of sins: eat, drink, and be merry -- they think they can repent at the last moment -- but their hearts may be hardened -- and it maybe too late for them to change their ways. It's best not to wait, the time of repentance is now, while we have breath and when we are offered that precious grace of repentance.

"If today you hear the voice of the Lord, harden not your heart."

Yours truly,
Elizabeth

Very well said, we are on the same page, it was just a miscommunication. Thank you.

Marc

 

[klewlis]

This is something that theologians have debated for centuries and will continue to debate.

God is concerned with the direction in which you are headed, not where you are. If you are headed in his direction... if you are seeking him and obeying him, then you don't need to worry about losing your salvation. If you are deliberately disobeying God and walking away from him, then you need to worry--but not because he's instantly going to send you to hell. God is extremely gracious. Sometimes he lets us walk away from him for a little while before bringing us back to himself.

So don't worry about whether so-and-so is going to hell--worry about your own position before God, and do what you can to help others along the way. I think it was Jim Elliot who said something along the lines of, why do we spend countless hours debating who will go to heaven, when we know for certain that thousands are pouring hourly into hell? In other words, spend your time and energy working for God, and let him worry about who is saved or not.

 

[StuckRags]

This is something that theologians have debated for centuries and will continue to debate.

God is concerned with the direction in which you are headed, not where you are. If you are headed in his direction... if you are seeking him and obeying him, then you don't need to worry about losing your salvation. If you are deliberately disobeying God and walking away from him, then you need to worry--but not because he's instantly going to send you to hell. God is extremely gracious. Sometimes he lets us walk away from him for a little while before bringing us back to himself.

So don't worry about whether so-and-so is going to hell--worry about your own position before God, and do what you can to help others along the way. I think it was Jim Elliot who said something along the lines of, why do we spend countless hours debating who will go to heaven, when we know for certain that thousands are pouring hourly into hell? In other words, spend your time and energy working for God, and let him worry about who is saved or not.

Agreed. Well said.

 

[MariaRegina]

If you love God and show your love for others by being kind, then God is granting you salvation. Trust in God and hope in His promises of eternal life.

 

[theseed]

Can someone tell me all the scriptures the PROVE that if you die while backsliding you'll go to hell? i have read them but in the heat of the moment talking with someone i couldnt come up with anything better than
heb. 6: 4 -6
heb 10: 26 -29

This depends on whether you believe one can lose thier salvation, there are many verses that support Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS), like Eph. 2.8-10, the reasoning behind it is that grace keeps us saved and grace is unmerited favor. That is to say, because of grace, we never earned so we can't unearn it.

someone once and for all illustrate all there is to settle this? the arguement was as such-

I'm afraid not, people have argued this since the 1500's. Arminias believed we do lose salvation, whil Calvin did not. Most people believe in one of these theologies.

my thinking is that if you die a backslider living in sin (with out repenting) you will not be remembered by christ.

I don't think Christ forgest us, we are his sheep and they ear is voice and no man can take them away (John). Also, I think grace keeps us there, but I'm not entirely in either camp that I mentioned above. I think faith is the vehicle that brings us into grace (Romans 5.2; Eph. 2.8-10). But grace keeps us their becasue we don't earn grace (by definition). I'm still workin this out myself.

also who all thinks judas went to hell for killing himself?

http://www.christianforums.com/t86727

This link is about that question, I just posted it this week. I think Judas was never saved, he did not believe in Christ as Savior, but did realize he killed an innocent man. Although theree are many reasons not to commit suicide, and that to show that it's wrong (according the bible) I don't believe it can thwart the grace we are saved by, the grace we did not earn. Roman Catholics, from what I know, don't agree with that.

heb. 6: 4 -6

This passage is talking about lost people who don't believe. It is talking about rest from working for one's salvation as the Jews (Hebrews) did. Those who do not surrender to God's will and believe in Chtrist are disobediant.

heb 10: 26 -29

OSAS people believe that those who sin willfully are not saved to begin with. I admit though, I'm stumped here.

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because[2] to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Possible interpations:
1) Arminians believe that this is talking about loseing one's salvation, but notice it is not possible to be saved a 2nd time

2)Some think this is not referring to genuine believers, the falling away is knowledge of truth, but not actually acting on it, therefore, no faith. They know Jesus saves, but come short of placing thier faith. I may know that a chair can hold me up, but if I don't sit in it, then I'm not placing my faith in it.

3)Some think that it is talking about true believers, but the "falling away" is only there to stregthen the warning. Hence, "It is impossible for a student to turn back the clock, once enrolled in the class, to start over again. Therefore, let all students go deeper into knowldege"

I find it hard to accept one becasue it does not allow for one to be saved more than once.

 

[WarEagle]

Can someone tell me all the scriptures the PROVE that if you die while backsliding you'll go to hell?

I don't believe there's any such thing as backsliding. Take a good look as the people who say they're backsliding and I'll guarantee you'll find that most of them never slid forward in the first place.

The Bible is clear that if you continue on in sin, then you're not born again.

also who all thinks judas went to hell for killing himself?

I believe that Judas went to Hell, but I'm not convinced that suicide is a sin.