Young Earth,Old Earth Which Is It?

SkyWriting

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Why would what people understood 2,000 years ago versus what people understand today have any bearing on the truth? ....I firmly believe that some 7 to 8 thousand years ago there was not a single star in all of the universe.

Because the genealogies did not lead the people who were listening
to what was being said to create a time-frame for creation.

The young earth movement is a recent event created by man.

It's similar to a cult where all the men die for their religious faith
before age 30 because that when Jesus dies. You may be able
to read "truth" in the scripture that is not really there.

Consider the possibility that "Old Earth" is not the evil that some
pastors paint it to be, just because atheists embrace it.

They embrace peace over war as well. Don't throw out the
Holy Baby with the bath water.
 
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miamited

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Hi sky,

Says you. I understand that we each believe what we believe based on what we have convinced ourselves that the reality is. But there's still that little issue that needs to be resolved that no matter what you or I believe, what is the truth?

You believe that the years of life are not numbered so that we can account for the span of time. Me, I can't find any other reason that they would be. How is that you 'know' what people 4,000 years ago were thinking as they read the writings of Moses? You keep repeating, "That's now what it's there for." I keep asking, "Ok, if that's not what it's there for, then what is it there for?" If God's purpose in having Moses write down the line of men to Jesus is only to show that line, then why did He deem to do it differently than He did when He wrote the same thing centuries later? Further, if it really is the line of Jesus from Adam, then how long did those men live? Is it the unbroken line of Jesus? If so, then do you think they lived many, many thousands more years than what we are told?

You believe that the young earth movement is some new age teaching. I don't. I believe that there has always been a remnant that have believed the truth.

I have no idea where you've found this cult of people who believe that the righteous die before they're 30, but it's the first I've heard of it.

The question that born again believers always seek to answer is: What is the truth? Obviously, you believe a different truth than I do, but what is the truth?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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Moldme

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Comparing Genesis 1, with II Peter 3(this is how I've worked it out, perhaps there will be agreement or disagreement and that's fine:
In the beginning God created the earth, no specifics as far a time as we know it, but the earth is about 4.54 billion years old, and in the beginning God created it to be inhabited not void and without form a Isaiah says in 45:18, "For thus saith the Lord That created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it; He hath established it, He created it not in vain(meaning not void and without form in the beginning), He formed it to be inhabited(not void or empty in the beginning, but to be inhabited by Him and His “sons“, being you and me, all His “sons“ in spirit bodies): "I am the Lord; and there is none else."
Peter calls this the "world that then was", and there are not many scriptures describing that world, but there are some. So this was the first generation of the earth, earth created in perfection for God and His "sons", God lived and reigned on the earth, perhaps at that time the earth was the only planet in all the universe. God surrounded it with a band of dense water, with an atmosphere to sustain flesh life, between the water band and the face of the earth, thus as Peter says "the earth being in the water and out of the water" and He was the light of that world, from the surface up. This was the time of the dinosaurs, God's spirit kingdom living in perfect unity with His flesh kingdom. Even in that generation all had freewill, why would God create robots to love Him by will, He wants our love freely given. So when a "son" took the wrong path, there was righteous judge to mete out justice, Melchisedec(God's Son, who will eventually come to earth in flesh and be sacrificed), who sat on the Mercy Seat, being guarded by the two cherubim which covereth(of which the the Ark of the Covenant was to be an example of). But one of those cherubim became jealous, filled with envy, and he caused rebellion in that heaven on earth. For the cherubim's rebellion and all the "sons" he'd deceived into following him, God sentenced the cherubim to obliteration, not in that generation, but a time in the far distant second generation of the earth, for God brings calamity(the falling of that dense water band upon the face of the earth, God's presence and light is gone, so the destructive falling of the water causes the face of the earth to go into upheaval, and then to freeze over and darkness covers the face of the earth, no flesh creature remains and He takes His "sons" to be wherever He is! Perhaps this generation of the earth lasted most of that 4.54 million years, but as it says in Genesis 1:2, "And the earth "was" without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep"(water/ice). And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters(perhaps this took a couple thousand of years for the waters to be moved and the continents to appear). The word "was" is a wrong translation, the word should have been "became"(and we can document this as the same and correct use of this word “became” as found in Genesis 2:7, where it reads….”and man became a living soul”. The Strong’s Hebrew dictionary for this word is 1961, Yahah, haw-yaw; a prime root, to exit; to become, or come to pass). So, for another unspecified period of time the surface of the earth hung in utter blackness. Until God then sends the Holy Spirit to rejuvenate the face the earth, so flesh man will be born of woman for one reason alone, to make a choice to love and serve Him, or follow Satan and the things of the world. Peter says this new generation of the earth is the "world which is now". Genesis 2:4, "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens," take note of the plural of generations, so there has to be more than one! This generation of the earth for flesh is somewhere between 10-12 thousands of years old. Note: It is important to understand the use of the word “foundation” in scripture, it is found 54 times in 53 scriptures in the Old(30) and New Testament(23). Of those 23 New Testament uses, 10 have a meaning that are extremely important as to what had happened in these first to verses of Genesis. The phrase “foundation of the world” is found in Matt.13:35, 25:34, Luke 11:15, John 17:24, Eph.1:4, Heb. 4:3, 9:26, I Peter 1:20 and Rev. 13:8, 17:8, the Greek meaning, from the Strong’s Concordance is G2602, katabolē, a throwing or laying down, the injection or depositing of the virile sperm in the womb, of the seed of plants and animals or a founding (laying down a foundation). This meaning comes from G2596, kataballo, to cast down, to throw to the ground, prostate, to put in a lower place, to lay (down) a foundation(as in destroy a foundation). And taken back to the prime root we have G906, ballo, to throw or let go of a thing without caring where it falls, to scatter, to throw, cast into, to give over to one's care uncertain about the result, of fluids, to pour, pour into of rivers, to pour out, and to put into, insert. So, from the meaning of “foundation” found in the Strong‘s Concordance, we must see that this is not talking about the perfect foundation of the world set at the beginning of all creation, but a throwing down, or a casting away of it, or as God stated, that first great shaking, to end the surface of the earth of His original perfect creation because it had become corrupted, and polluted with lies and deception by His adversary, the one we call Satan.
 
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BABerean2

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My interest in astronomy allowed Christian astronomer Hugh Ross to help me on my journey to becoming a Christian.

His lectures and books should be one of the greatest tools for witnessing to college age young people, who are under the tremendous influence of atheist professors.

While you are working around the house, spend some time listening to his life story and the latest discoveries in the link below.

Share it with others who are searching for the truth.


The creator of the universe has revealed himself through the laws of physics.
The conclusion has now become unavoidable.
In recent years it has caused a tremendous upheaval in the scientific community.

The atheists and agnostics are stretching the limits of credibility to avoid what they do not want to admit.

When their best explanations are now presented, God laughs.






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4EaWPIlNYY


.
 
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Willtor

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The concern I have about Hugh Ross is that he doesn't actually support science -- only the science that goes on in his field. Questions that college students might have regarding other fields will be answered very badly by him or affiliated organizations. They will be answered badly in a way that is easily recognized by people in those fields, even by people who have a reasonably high-level understanding of those fields.

I would rather advocate organizations like BioLogos that represent a more comprehensive approach to thinking about the relationship between faith and science.
 
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BABerean2

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The concern I have about Hugh Ross is that he doesn't actually support science -- only the science that goes on in his field. Questions that college students might have regarding other fields will be answered very badly by him or affiliated organizations. They will be answered badly in a way that is easily recognized by people in those fields, even by people who have a reasonably high-level understanding of those fields.

I would rather advocate organizations like BioLogos that represent a more comprehensive approach to thinking about the relationship between faith and science.

I am one of those people who read Dr. Collins book and wrote him a letter several years ago.

I have found both the work of Dr. Ross and the work of Dr. Collins to be beneficial.

Hopefully, it is not necessary to pit them against each other in order to spread the Gospel message.


 
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Willtor

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I am one of those people who read Dr. Collins book and wrote him a letter several years ago.

I have found both the work of Dr. Ross and the work of Dr. Collins to be beneficial.

Hopefully, it is not necessary to pit them against each other in order to spread the Gospel message.



Perhaps it is not necessary to pit them against each other. My contention is not that one needs to love one and hate the other, but that one of them holds views that undermine his credibility among the people you mention.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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The age of the earth is very well established to be 4.56 billion years old. There is no credible evidence to the contrary. The Bible says absolutely nothing contrary to this fact, and NONE of the handful of so-called ‘scientists’ who disagree have earned a Ph.D. in a field of science relevant to the issue.
 
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James Is Back

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The age of the earth is very well established to be 4.56 billion years old. There is no credible evidence to the contrary. The Bible says absolutely nothing contrary to this fact, and NONE of the handful of so-called ‘scientists’ who disagree have earned a Ph.D. in a field of science relevant to the issue.


Ok say if that's true then I have some questions.

Between when God created the earth 4.56 billion years ago until now:

1.When did He create A&E?
2.What was the time period between God creating A&E and the time of the fall?
3.What happened during the time period between the fall and Noah,the Ark and the Flood?
4.What is the time frame from the Flood till Christ's arrival?
5.Where does Dinosaurs fit into all of this(what time period,ie after the fall,after the Flood)?

If you can't answer these questions point me to some resources,books,etc that can as I'm interested in YEC and OEC Theology.
 
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St_Worm2

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Hi James, for YEC, I HIGHLY recommend The Genesis Record; A Scientific and Devotional Commentary on the Book of Beginnings by Dr. Henry Morris

He's a scientist, not a theologian, nevertheless, it is one of the best, well-written, and most informative commentaries I have ever read.

You'll love it .. :)

Yours and His,
David
 
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SkyWriting

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Me, I can't find any other reason that they would be.

Well, that is easily the weakest of arguments.

All major tenants of Christianity are backed by multiple
scripture passages in the old and new testaments.

"The age of the earth" fails this test.
Not only is the path to the answer
convoluted and complicated, but
each scholar gets a different answer.

If the earth was young, there would
have been at least ONE sentence in
the scriptures to back that up.

There is not one sentence to support it.
Ken Ham has not added one either.

Here is the passage Ken wrote inside my Bible cover: Romans 1:20

For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

It's pretty clear that the stars are more than 10000 light years away. So 10,000 is not the right number.

Adam was created immortal, as was the earth. He was created in a time-without-time, or death.
 
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SkyWriting

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Ok say if that's true then I have some questions.

Between when God created the earth 4.56 billion years ago until now:

1.When did He create A&E?

The earth and A&E were originally immortal. What we know at time,
didn't exist.


2.What was the time period between God creating A&E and the time of the fall?

What we know at time, death, & decay (= how we measure time)
didn't exist.


3.What happened during the time period between the fall and Noah,the Ark and the Flood?

Adams sin affected the world, it began to decay, time began.

4.What is the time frame from the Flood till Christ's arrival?
5.Where does Dinosaurs fit into all of this(what time period,ie after the fall,after the Flood)?

The past can only be determined by what honest men write.
Everything else is fantasy.

If you can't answer these questions point me to some resources,books,etc that can as I'm interested in YEC and OEC Theology.

Other than being wrong about the age of the earth
these are excellent:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Genesis-Record-Scientific-Devotional/dp/0801072824
 
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James Is Back

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Hi James, for YEC, I HIGHLY recommend The Genesis Record; A Scientific and Devotional Commentary on the Book of Beginnings by Dr. Henry Morris

He's a scientist, not a theologian, nevertheless, it is one of the best, well-written, and most informative commentaries I have ever read.

You'll love it .. :)

Yours and His,
David

The earth and A&E were originally immortal. What we know at time,
didn't exist.




What we know at time, death, & decay (= how we measure time)
didn't exist.




Adams sin affected the world, it began to decay, time began.



The past can only be determined by what honest men write.
Everything else is fantasy.



Other than being wrong about the age of the earth
these are excellent:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Genesis-Record-Scientific-Devotional/dp/0801072824

Thanks :thumbsup:
 
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PrincetonGuy

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The earth and A&E were originally immortal. What we know at time,
didn't exist.




What we know at time, death, & decay (= how we measure time)
didn't exist.




Adams sin affected the world, it began to decay, time began.

This is nothing but imaginative fiction like The Twilight Zone and The Outer Limits.

The past can only be determined by what honest men write.
Everything else is fantasy.

The honest men are those who are honest with themselves and honest with others. As has been repeatedly documented in several or more CF threads, young-earth creationist websites are notorious for their blatant dishonesty.


Henry M. Morris lacked a formal education in all the areas of scientific inquiry that are relevant to measuring the age of the earth. Moreover, his interpretation of Genesis is the interpretation of Genesis taught by the Roman Catholic Church during the dark ages. No one, absolutely no one publishing today in an academic biblical journal recognized for its academic excellence is teaching anything remotely similar to the interpretation of Genesis given by Morris in the book linked to above.
 
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BABerean2

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Ok say if that's true then I have some questions.

Between when God created the earth 4.56 billion years ago until now:

1.When did He create A&E?
2.What was the time period between God creating A&E and the time of the fall?
3.What happened during the time period between the fall and Noah,the Ark and the Flood?
4.What is the time frame from the Flood till Christ's arrival?
5.Where does Dinosaurs fit into all of this(what time period,ie after the fall,after the Flood)?

If you can't answer these questions point me to some resources,books,etc that can as I'm interested in YEC and OEC Theology.

I can recommend two excellent books by biblical scholar and scientist Gerald L. Schroeder from the Old Earth viewpoint.

His perspective is unique, since not only is he a physicist, but he has also taught at the College of Jewish studies in Jerusalem.



"The Hidden Face of God"

"God According to God"
 
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PrincetonGuy

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Hi James, for YEC, I HIGHLY recommend The Genesis Record; A Scientific and Devotional Commentary on the Book of Beginnings by Dr. Henry Morris

He's a scientist, not a theologian, nevertheless, it is one of the best, well-written, and most informative commentaries I have ever read.

You'll love it .. :)

Yours and His,
David

Young-earth creationist websites do represent Henry Morris as being a scientist, but he was not. Indeed, he never earned so much a bachelor’s degree in any field of science! He had earned a Ph.D. in hydraulic engineering, and as an independent Baptist with no education in the Bible, he liked to represent himself to the public as Dr. Henry Morris—an expert on the age of the earth and the book of Genesis. He died nine years ago.

If “one of the best, well-written, and most informative” commentaries a man has read was a commentary on Genesis by a hydraulic engineer with no education in the Bible—that man has a very serious problem!
 
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PrincetonGuy

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I can recommend two excellent books by biblical scholar and scientist Gerald L. Schroeder from the Old Earth viewpoint.

His perspective is unique, since not only is he a physicist, but he has also taught at the College of Jewish studies in Jerusalem.



"The Hidden Face of God"

"God According to God"

Gerald Schroeder is not a Christian, but an orthodox Jew who fails to recognize that the first eleven chapters of Genesis is a collection of severely redacted epic tales or sagas. Therefore, seeking to understand the six days of creation in terms of physics and the big bang theory is nothing less than ridiculous. However, when the first eleven chapters of Genesis is correctly understood to be a collection of severely redacted epic tales or sagas, there is no conflict whatsoever between Genesis and the fact that the earth is very old. Moreover, when the first eleven chapters of Genesis is correctly understood to be a collection of severely redacted epic tales or sagas, there is no conflict whatsoever between Genesis and the theory of evolution or anything else that God has chosen to teach us through science. Therefore, we can be conservative, evangelical Christians while also believing in reality.
 
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Saricharity

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Young-earth creationist websites do represent Henry Morris as being a scientist, but he was not. Indeed, never earned so much a bachelor’s degree in any field of science! He had earned a Ph.D. in hydraulic engineering, and as an independent Baptist with no education in the Bible, he liked to represent himself to the public as Dr. Henry Morris—an expert on the age of the earth and the book of Genesis. He died nine years ago.

If “one of the best, well-written, and most informative” commentaries a man has read was a commentary on Genesis by a hydraulic engineer with no education in the Bible—that man has a very serious problem!

Forgive me for being outspoken when it's none of my business but you do profess be a pastor. You have the right to state your opinion on a commentary like your first paragraph, however your last sentence was rude and not necessary. You have no right to judge another and it served no useful purpose.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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Hi James, for YEC, I HIGHLY recommend The Genesis Record; A Scientific and Devotional Commentary on the Book of Beginnings by Dr. Henry Morris

He's a scientist, not a theologian, nevertheless, it is one of the best, well-written, and most informative commentaries I have ever read.

You'll love it .. :)

Yours and His,
David

Young-earth creationist websites do represent Henry Morris as being a scientist, but he was not. Indeed, never earned so much a bachelor’s degree in any field of science! He had earned a Ph.D. in hydraulic engineering, and as an independent Baptist with no education in the Bible, he liked to represent himself to the public as Dr. Henry Morris—an expert on the age of the earth and the book of Genesis. He died nine years ago.

If “one of the best, well-written, and most informative” commentaries a man has read was a commentary on Genesis by a hydraulic engineer with no education in the Bible—that man has a very serious problem!

Forgive me for being outspoken when it's none of my business but you do profess be a pastor. You have the right to state your opinion on a commentary like your first paragraph, however your last sentence was rude and not necessary. You have no right to judge another and it served no useful purpose.

In my first paragraph, I wrote nothing at all about Henry Morris’ commentary. In my second paragraph, I wrote a very brief reply to the statement by St Worm that Morris’ commentary “is one of the best, well-written, and most informative commentaries” that he has ever read. Of all of the very many commentaries on Geneses that I am familiar with, Morris’ commentary is by far the most ridiculous and inaccurate. Therefore, if a man believes that Morris’ commentary “is one of the best, well-written, and most informative commentaries” that he has read, that man (whoever he may be) has a very serious problem! Please note that I made no reference of any kind to any actual person, but only generically to people who share such a view of commentaries on the Bible.
 
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