Young earth Creationism.

[mark kennedy]

God created everything, I trust that He took whatever time He needed to take. If my salvation depends on knowing how long He took, and how long ago He started, I'm hosed.

That first cause is important, especially when salvation requires God to make you a new creation in Christ. It's not like creation and salvation are unrelated.

 

[Alithis]

soft tissue found in dinosaur remains..
add- ancient pottery depicts dinosaurs being hunted-dated approx 5000 yrs.

means A. they cannot be millions of years old
B. science is completely wrong about tissue break down (and the myriad of other things by implication )
C . the dating system of fossils is completely flawed .
D. all of the above.



Scientist Fired for Discovering Something and Publishing What He Discovered

and, Dinosaur Shocker | Science | Smithsonian -for balance

......

 

[mark kennedy]

......

I don't know what to tell you about Mark Armitage, soft tissue samples are not all that rare. I found an article on:

Respiratory and Reproductive Paleophysiology of Dinosaurs and Early Birds

Just a discussion of the respiratory system, no big deal. Then I found this incredible statement and I'm astonished that no one pays much attention:

a fossilized four-chambered heart with a fully partitioned ventricle in an onithischian dinosaur, Thescelosaurus. (Fisher 144)​

Fossils are rare enough but a fossilized heart? Anyway...

I don't understand what Mark Armitage was fired for but it's unlikely that it's over making a discovery and publishing a paper, I mean it's what they do. I don't think the findings being published by the same people who publish Cell and the Lancet is a coincidence either. The university knew he published creationist literature, they knew this when they hired him. The details of him being fired are a little sketchy but it's got to come down to religion.

The lawsuit alleges that in the weeks leading up to his termination, Armitage's boss, Ernest Kwok, "stormed into" his lab and shouted, "'We are not going to tolerate your religion in this department!!"​

Scientist claims California university fired him over creationist beliefs

They found the bones at the dig after working for three days, the paper was published in 30 days after being submitted for publication. He said nothing in the paper about it but obviously he doesn't believe it's more then 4,000 years old, I think his colleagues saw a chance at Creationist credibility and panicked. There are so many curious things about this, I can't wait to see how this one ends.

 

[bill5]

What are your views on young earth creationism

That it's glaringly absurd. There's a mountain of evidence that points to a FAR older earth, with creationists spinning things any way possible to disbelieve it, despite any clear science/evidence/etc to back it up when evidence is presented. ie it's pointless to discuss the topic with them as they aren't about to listen. I imagine it's rather how discussions about the earth NOT being at the center of the solar system/universe went many years ago despite all evidence pointing to that (surprisingly, many creationists are OK with that.....).

Do you have any possible evidence/clues that young earth creationism may not be true?

First off, do you have any possible evidence/clues that little pink dragons DON'T live on Pluto? Well then it's reasonable to believe it! This is the logic you're presenting us.

Second, again, there is a ton of evidence of a much older earth. It's up to each individual whether to accept it or go "NANANA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" and pretend it's all some satanic fabrications.

It is man who desires to have the creation account span billions of years to build their theory that man came from mutating apes that evolved from a mutated single cell amoeba. It's Mans desire to take the Glory away from God who created everything as he clearly says, exactly when and in what time frame. It is man trying to have science prove Gods word wrong. Which is why it's important to trust God, and believe all he has given us in his book. An know it's evil wanting to separate the believers from God through doubt and skepticism.

Exhibit A.

I haven't found the scripture that says that they aren't 24 hour days. But, I do have the verses that say "day" (Yom). Although Yom can be an indefinite period of time, the 359 times that it is used in the bible with numeral or ordinal outside of Gen 1, it refers to a solar day.

Too bad then that Gen 1 is what we're talking about.

It's not like creation and salvation are unrelated.

Yeah, actually, they are. One needn't know exactly (or even roughly) how old the Earth is to be saved. In fact, the idea is ridiculous.

 

[BryanW92]

That it's glaringly absurd. There's a mountain of evidence that points to a FAR older earth, with creationists spinning things any way possible to disbelieve it, despite any clear science/evidence/etc to back it up when evidence is presented. ie it's pointless to discuss the topic with them as they aren't about to listen. I imagine it's rather how discussions about the earth NOT being at the center of the solar system/universe went many years ago despite all evidence pointing to that (surprisingly, many creationists are OK with that.....).



First off, do you have any possible evidence/clues that little pink dragons DON'T live on Pluto? Well then it's reasonable to believe it! This is the logic you're presenting us.

Second, again, there is a ton of evidence of a much older earth. It's up to each individual whether to accept it or go "NANANA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" and pretend it's all some satanic fabrications.




Exhibit A.




Too bad then that Gen 1 is what we're talking about.



Yeah, actually, they are. One needn't know exactly (or even roughly) how old the Earth is to be saved. In fact, the idea is ridiculous.

Wow, your hostility is a little unnecessary. Do you think that any of us can create a universe and we're going to do it wrong?

If evolution is real, then why did apes stop evolving into humans? If it happened often enough for two proto-humans to mate and continue that mutation, then why didn't the mutation keep happening over and over again? Shouldn't we have proto-humans walking out of the jungle in Africa right now? Or at least a few in the 500+ years since outsiders have been visiting sub-Saharan Africa?

 

[mark kennedy]

That it's glaringly absurd. There's a mountain of evidence that points to a FAR older earth, with creationists spinning things any way possible to disbelieve it, despite any clear science/evidence/etc to back it up when evidence is presented. ie it's pointless to discuss the topic with them as they aren't about to listen. I imagine it's rather how discussions about the earth NOT being at the center of the solar system/universe went many years ago despite all evidence pointing to that (surprisingly, many creationists are OK with that.....).

Whether or not the earth revolves around the sun has nothing to do with it. The Scriptures never say and nothing doctrinal is tied to it.

Too bad then that Gen 1 is what we're talking about.

Too bad you want to talk about anything but Gen 1.

It's not like creation and salvation are unrelated.

Yeah, actually, they are. One needn't know exactly (or even roughly) how old the Earth is to be saved. In fact, the idea is ridiculous.

Yea actually they are, there is almost nothing on the age of the earth, cosmology, astronomy but what there is a central emphasis on is the creation of life in general and man in particular.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. (John 1:1-5)​

You thinking about what you must do to be saved and the emphasis in the New Testament is on what Christ did, namely his death, burial and resurrection. Your salvation is inextricably linked to two key miracles in the Bible, the Incarnation and the resurrection which is the power available at salvation to make you a new creature in Christ.

What you believe about the age of the earth is irrelevant, to worship Christ as Savior and Lord is to worship him as Creator. That's impossible if you don't think God was involved in anything going back to and including the Big Bang. What is more when you constantly heap scathing rhetoric aimed at embarrassing and provoking believers is yet another good indicator that there is something wrong.

Have a nice day
Mark

 

[Alithis]

......

That it's glaringly absurd. There's a mountain of evidence that points to a FAR older earth, with creationists spinning things any way possible to disbelieve it, despite any clear science/evidence/etc to back it up when evidence is presented. ie it's pointless to discuss the topic with them as they aren't about to listen. I imagine it's rather how discussions about the earth NOT being at the center of the solar system/universe went many years ago despite all evidence pointing to that (surprisingly, many creationists are OK with that.....).



First off, do you have any possible evidence/clues that little pink dragons DON'T live on Pluto? Well then it's reasonable to believe it! This is the logic you're presenting us.

Second, again, there is a ton of evidence of a much older earth. It's up to each individual whether to accept it or go "NANANA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" and pretend it's all some satanic fabrications.




Exhibit A.




Too bad then that Gen 1 is what we're talking about.



Yeah, actually, they are. One needn't know exactly (or even roughly) how old the Earth is to be saved. In fact, the idea is ridiculous.

soft tissue found in dinosaur remains..
add- ancient pottery depicts dinosaurs being hunted-dated approx 5000 yrs.

means A. they cannot be millions of years old
B. science is completely wrong about tissue break down (and the myriad of other things by implication )
C . the dating system of fossils is completely flawed .
D. all of the above.



Scientist Fired for Discovering Something and Publishing What He Discovered

and, Dinosaur Shocker | Science | Smithsonian -for balance
......

 

[classicalhero]

If day means day in Genesis, how old is the earth now?

If the earth is only a few thousand years old, how does one explain the fact that there is no evidence that humans coexisted with Pleistocine animals like cave lions, woolly mammoths, saber tooth tigers, etc? Old earth creationism makes more sense to me. With young earth creationism, it seems like everything is shoehorned into a few thousands years. The fact that Ice Age animals lived before humans makes them seem more fascinating and mysterious. If they lived among humans (young earth view) it takes away their fascination. According to the young earth view, there is no such thing as Stone Age/pre history.

Absence of evidence doesn't mean evidence of absence. There are plenty of creatures that the fossil record shows never existed together, but of course we know that is not true because they are alive together now, in spite of the fossil record not showing them to be together.

But I take God's Word over man's word any time. The bible is clear that the creation week was 6 days with a rest day, which our work week is based upon, since we have seven days in a week. If God wanted to use uncertainty about time, then using yom is most definitely not the right word When he created the heavenly bodies he used terms that are more suited for that than Yom and yet it wasn't used. Only when you come out with outside knowledge does it require you to change the meaning of the word Yom to not mean a 24 hour period, or one rotation of the earth.

 

[holyrokker]

The field of Historical Linguistics provide evidence that the Indo-European family of languages may hav eoriginated in the Mesopotamian region about 40,000 years ago. How can human language predate human existence by at least 34,000 years?

Ther is no conflict between the Bible and the various sciences that point to an old earth. The problem arises when someone insists on holding to a dogma rather than objectively examining evidence.

 

[mark kennedy]

The field of Historical Linguistics provide evidence that the Indo-European family of languages may hav eoriginated in the Mesopotamian region about 40,000 years ago. How can human language predate human existence by at least 34,000 years?

Ther is no conflict between the Bible and the various sciences that point to an old earth. The problem arises when someone insists on holding to a dogma rather than objectively examining evidence.

Linguists tend to dismiss any claims to have found traces of language older than 10,000 years (Science 2011)

our analysis of a matrix of 87 languages with 2,449 lexical items produced an estimated age range for the initial Indo-European divergence of between 7,800 and 9,800 years bp. (Language-tree divergence times support the Anatolian theory of Indo-European origin. Nature. 27 November 2003)​

The chronologies of Genesis and the Old Testament are specific but assigning dates can be difficult. They used a lunar calendar and a less then reliable numbering system, both can yield variable dates. The real problem arises when as dogma the reliability of the Scriptures is dismissed as soon as the first conflict arises.

Have a nice day
Mark

 

[holyrokker]

Thank you for the correction.

 

[mark kennedy]

Thank you for the correction.

No problem, you have to watch those dates, they can be slippery.

 

[Sammy-San]

Because its all theory. You can date things that you know are a certain age like a thousand yr. something....but the farther you go back the more off it becomes until it becomes theory.....or guess work. To know something was million yrs. old you would have to know for a fact that it was, then take the carbon date and then compare that with other stuff.....but no one was around to live for a million yrs to say that what you just carbon dated is in fact a million yrs old......if you don't get my point its because I'm not that smart, LOL. Do some searching on the web.


Carbon Dating Accuracy: What Are The Flaws Of Carbon Dating?

If the Earth is only thousands of years old, how do you explain how geologists concluded that the extinct volcanos of Maine are hundreds of millions of yrs old? Supervolcanoes in Maine?

A geoscientist studies the makeup of planet Earth. Seaman’s research suggests that at least four supervolcanoes were located along a 100-mile stretch of Maine’s coast. She believes the volcanoes were last actively erupting around 420 million years ago.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

mankind is liars. that includes scientists. the world accepts lies. the world loves its own.
they are all lost.
no one can make them believe, and Yhvh the only Creator won't force them.

 

[Alithis]

mankind is liars. that includes scientists. the world accepts lies. the world loves its own.
they are all lost.
no one can make them believe, and Yhvh the only Creator won't force them.

not all scientists lie .. but most supporters of theories of evolution process misrepresent what some scientists say.
especially the media.. tv etc.
we see on tv a documentary on some species and hear the words ..."this creature evolved over 60 million years" -presented as fact. but if we go to the scientific data and journal we find the written science on it is full of open conjecture..supposition.the data is filled with terms of ..might have been ,may have ,could possibly have, we hypothesise, we think(=personal opinion NOT FACT)... Yet all these phrases are purposely ignored and the data falsely presented as fact..

it is this absolute stance of dishonesty i have no respect for.

The very essence of being christian is to be people who believe in Gods word,who believe what he has spoken is truth and do not lean our own infinitesimal understanding...

folks are beginning to walk in unbelief ..i cant call it anything else.they no longer believe God is able to create in a single day what he said he created.they cast aside childlike faith in favor of mans knowledge over and above Gods word. .
yet the same scriptures we believe in state that at the lords return we shall be changed (in the time it takes for the eyes to twinkle) into an immortal incorruptible substantial body that is not made out of flesh and blood... this verse alone ,denounces every theory of a process of evolving .. for God is able to do instantaneously what he has said he has done and will do .to even remotely insinuate he cannot .is to imply something horrendous ...
we who claim to be believers in the Lord Jesus must, at any cost - Cast off unbelief in any and all of its insidious forms.

 

[Sammy-San]

mankind is liars. that includes scientists. the world accepts lies. the world loves its own.
they are all lost.
no one can make them believe, and Yhvh the only Creator won't force them.

If what scientists are saying is lies, then why is there geologic proof that an ice age occurred? There are remnants of glacier in both NY and Maine, as well as other states.

 

[BryanW92]

If what scientists are saying is lies, then why is there geologic proof that an ice age occurred? There are remnants of glacier in both NY and Maine, as well as other states.

There is a wealth of information at Home | The Institute for Creation Research . Things that make you go "hmm".

 

[Sammy-San]

There is a wealth of information at Home | The Institute for Creation Research . Things that make you go "hmm".

Do you believe the Ice Age happened? I believe so, not only because of geologic evidence, but because of the fact that a lot of the Ice Age fossils portray animals that existed even before ancient times.

 

[BryanW92]

Do you believe the Ice Age happened? I believe so, not only because of geologic evidence, but because of the fact that a lot of the Ice Age fossils portray animals that existed even before ancient times.

I took a class at LIberty University a couple years ago that was a survey of Catastrophism (the geological term for Creationism) and Uniformitarianism (the geological term for evolution). I started the course as a pure Uniformitarian. I finished the course with a strong attitude towards questioning both.

The thing is that, if there was a Flood, the world before the Flood was significantly different than that afterwards. Go read the Genesis account of the Flood again. There was massive upheavals in the crust of the earth as the water flowed out of the earth to cover the surface (it wasn't just a bunch of rain).

The methods that science uses to date rocks is flawed, and that's being kind. There is strata in the Mt St Helens ashfall area that has been tested blind and found to be over 300 million hears old. Of course, we know that it is 30 years old. Science uses a method of assuming that something existed in a certain time period and then comparing it to other things in the same layer and assuming that it came from the same time period. But, there is not Rosetta Stone that the whole bag of assumptions can be traced back to. It is just assumption based on assumption based on assumption.

So, what to do I beleive? I don't know. I don't create worlds, so it really doesn't matter if the Ice Age lasted 10,000 years or if it lasted for 5 years while the planet was being chilled by the Flood receding. I am open to both and believe in a synthesis of the two competing theories.

 

[Alithis]

.............

If what scientists are saying is lies, then why is there geologic proof that an ice age occurred? There are remnants of glacier in both NY and Maine, as well as other states.

not all scientists lie .. but most supporters of theories of evolution process misrepresent what some scientists say.
especially the media.. tv etc.
we see on tv a documentary on some species and hear the words ..."this creature evolved over 60 million years" -presented as fact. but if we go to the scientific data and journal we find the written science on it is full of open conjecture..supposition.the data is filled with terms of ..might have been ,may have ,could possibly have, we hypothesise, we think(=personal opinion NOT FACT)... Yet all these phrases are purposely ignored and the data falsely presented as fact..

it is this absolute stance of dishonesty i have no respect for.

The very essence of being christian is to be people who believe in Gods word,who believe what he has spoken is truth and do not lean our own infinitesimal understanding...

folks are beginning to walk in unbelief ..i cant call it anything else.they no longer believe God is able to create in a single day what he said he created.they cast aside childlike faith in favor of mans knowledge over and above Gods word. .
yet the same scriptures we believe in state that at the lords return we shall be changed (in the time it takes for the eyes to twinkle) into an immortal incorruptible substantial body that is not made out of flesh and blood... this verse alone ,denounces every theory of a process of evolving .. for God is able to do instantaneously what he has said he has done and will do .to even remotely insinuate he cannot .is to imply something horrendous ...
we who claim to be believers in the Lord Jesus must, at any cost - Cast off unbelief in any and all of its insidious forms.