You may believe evolution but will you abandon your design for the mark of the Beast?

Evolution is valueless. Would it stop you receiving the mark of the Beast?

  • Yes.

  • No.


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Gottservant

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I have to object to those who don't see the link between a new technology and evolution. One of the appeals of the philosophy of evolution is that it gives the thumbs up to anything which aids survival. If it helps you survive, you get evolution's blessing - the hope that your name will live on through those who follow after you.

Be honest, how many of you would be interested in evolution if life was described as a disease and the process of evolution was a degenerative problem that had to be curtailed by avoiding advances in evolution?
 
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Mumbo

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Thankyou for answering my opening post seriously. A considered reply is rare, much less one that is intelligent.

Unfortunately, you suggest that although you have this wonderful theory of evolution, which helps you identify things that look like a process that is responsible for who we are, you are actually unable to decide on the basis of that theory whether something will be good or not for who we are. That makes the thread slightly redundant... but not without making the theory of evolution look pointless (at best).
The theory of evolution doesn't have a moral, sorry. You can search for one if you like, I guess, just don't declare the theory to be "pointless" if you can't find anything benefitial.

Neverthless, on topic, I have to ask: how many people here would look at a technology that harmonizes (makes of one mind) a population of human beings as an advance in evolution?
If you're talking about the traditional, Darwinian theory, then nope. Unless genes get involved, it isn't evolution in that sense.

If you're using a different definition of evolution, then sure.

I have to object to those who don't see the link between a new technology and evolution. One of the appeals of the philosophy of evolution is that it gives the thumbs up to anything which aids survival. If it helps you survive, you get evolution's blessing - the hope that your name will live on through those who follow after you.
Evolution is a scientific theory, not a philosophy. It describes the origin of species, but not a mindset. The philosophy of evolution went out with social darwinism, and hasn't been seen since.

Be honest, how many of you would be interested in evolution if life was described as a disease and the process of evolution was a degenerative problem that had to be curtailed by avoiding advances in evolution?
That's an awfully big "if." Well, I'd like to think that the popular portrayal of evolution wouldn't have any effect on my interest in it, or scientific interest for that matter. Also, short of a really good method of cloning, there isn't any way for a species to remain in existance and avoid evolution at the same time.
 
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Eudaimonist

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There is a future in which we will be faced with the possibility of abandoning our design altogether: the mark of the Beast. It will be said that this technology will make society safer, more convenient and more law-abiding. What is it? A mark that makes you a slave to the Beast who will rule the world (Revelation 13). Anyone who receives this mark goes to Hell, but are people who believe in evolution ready to accept that?

how many people here would look at a technology that harmonizes (makes of one mind) a population of human beings as an advance in evolution?

This is a bizarre interpretation of Revelations, but here is my answer:

I am a staunch advocate of free societies based on freedom of the individual, and I am against any genetic modification that would remove the ability of human individuals to make their own individual judgments and oppose totalitarian political trends.

Note: Technologies can't "advance Evolution". Evolution is not something that can be "advanced", as it is not a goal-directed process.

One of the appeals of the philosophy of evolution is that it gives the thumbs up to anything which aids survival.

I don't see how. Evolution is not an ethics. The appeal of Evolution to me is that it is real, not for any reason related to human survival.

If it helps you survive, you get evolution's blessing - the hope that your name will live on through those who follow after you.

Evolution's blessing? Huh??? I can't relate to what you are saying at all. Evolution is not some god. And I don't care if my genes or name live on after me.

Be honest, how many of you would be interested in evolution if life was described as a disease and the process of evolution was a degenerative problem that had to be curtailed by avoiding advances in evolution?

Honestly, I am interested in knowing reality for what it is. Period.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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Upisoft

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Be honest, how many of you would be interested in evolution if life was described as a disease and the process of evolution was a degenerative problem that had to be curtailed by avoiding advances in evolution?
As much as you would be interested in "christianity" that describes God as this Beast thing. BTW, who lied to you that life equals disease?
 
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HumanisticJones

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Neverthless, on topic, I have to ask: how many people here would look at a technology that harmonizes (makes of one mind) a population of human beings as an advance in evolution?
Totally not in any way related to evolution. That's the realm of cybernetics or other such fields. Even if it were a purely genetic technology that could alter the genome of the entire human race to achieve this effect, it still isn't evolution, but genetic engineering. Unless it was a genetic patern that was selected for because of a benifit granted in surviving in the environment, it wouldn't be evolution.
 
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TurtleTamer

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Thankyou for answering my opening post seriously. A considered reply is rare, much less one that is intelligent.

Unfortunately, you suggest that although you have this wonderful theory of evolution, which helps you identify things that look like a process that is responsible for who we are, you are actually unable to decide on the basis of that theory whether something will be good or not for who we are. That makes the thread slightly redundant... but not without making the theory of evolution look pointless (at best).
Not everything of value must have intrinsic moral guidelines. Let me give you an example. Aerodynamics does a wonderful job of telling us how objects interact with air while in motion. It allows us to do incredible things like build airplanes and such. However, it does not tell us what we should do with such knowledge. Aerodynamics also allows the production of missiles and other devices of war. Nothing about aerodynamics tells us that we should or shouldn't build them though.

Likewise, evolution does an excellent job of explaining how the genetic makeup of a population changes over time. It allows us to predict and prevent development of antibiotic resistance and helps with many other areas of development. The knowledge of how populations change may also lead to other advances that may have moral implications (I'd argue that the ones posed by you here are much more biotech than evolution though). Evolution doesn't tell us what we should do with the knowledge, it just gives us the knowledge itself.
Neverthless, on topic, I have to ask: how many people here would look at a technology that harmonizes (makes of one mind) a population of human beings as an advance in evolution?
It would be quite a breakthrough, but not in the feild of evolution.

As far as the potential impact of such technology on the evolution of the species, depending how such technology works, it may casue an evolutionary response, but would not be evolution itself.

Evolutionary responses are how populations are genetically affected by a change in the environment. The change in the environment could be either pleasant or unpleasant, good or bad. A new virus, for example, may cause such a response even though I think we all agree that such a virus would be bad.
PS. I never said prosthetics or even genetics was bad.
Ok, i wasn't sure of the extent of what you would consider implants and how invasive such an implant would have to be to be considered a change in design. I'm still not sure of the exact limits of what you find troubling though. Perhaps you could respond to the last part of my post where I asked about specific types of implants?
 
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Gottservant

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Hmmm... well, a lot of you seem to be saying that "evolution" is just a tool, not a theory. That to me is a lie - evolution is a theory and theories are as much suggestive as they are descriptive, since they lie in the realm of art.

All the same and going back to the subject, it has to be said that changing our design is really a good idea for a lot of people, as they are not born with everything as it should be. There is a big difference between that and abandoning one's design though. Individuality is not just part of our design, it is our design (that we should be individuals). A technology that forced us all to operate as one (being of one mind) would be an anathema to our design (the consequences for which will be discovered soon enough - God will punish those who accept it). That is really what I was trying to say in the opening paragraphs.
 
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united4Peace

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Hmmm... well, a lot of you seem to be saying that "evolution" is just a tool, not a theory. That to me is a lie - evolution is a theory and theories are as much suggestive as they are descriptive, since they lie in the realm of art.

All the same and going back to the subject, it has to be said that changing our design is really a good idea for a lot of people, as they are not born with everything as it should be. There is a big difference between that and abandoning one's design though. Individuality is not just part of our design, it is our design (that we should be individuals). A technology that forced us all to operate as one (being of one mind) would be an anathema to our design (the consequences for which will be discovered soon enough - God will punish those who accept it). That is really what I was trying to say in the opening paragraphs.
What if we dont worship a God who punishes those who accept evolution?
:scratch:

Oh never mind....Im still trying to figure out what this is about :sorry:
 
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TurtleTamer

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Hmmm... well, a lot of you seem to be saying that "evolution" is just a tool, not a theory. That to me is a lie - evolution is a theory and theories are as much suggestive as they are descriptive, since they lie in the realm of art.
No, we are saying it's a theory which is a tool. Likewise, quantum theory is a tool. Both describe observations well and both yield useful scientific advances.
All the same and going back to the subject, it has to be said that changing our design is really a good idea for a lot of people, as they are not born with everything as it should be. There is a big difference between that and abandoning one's design though. Individuality is not just part of our design, it is our design (that we should be individuals). A technology that forced us all to operate as one (being of one mind) would be an anathema to our design (the consequences for which will be discovered soon enough - God will punish those who accept it). That is really what I was trying to say in the opening paragraphs.
I'm not sure how such an implant would have anything to do with evolution. I can see no way that evolution would lead to that type of development.

I also see fail to see how such a development would favor survival even if evolutionary theory made any such moral judgments (which it doesn't as I've explained)

You really need to establish this connection before trying to use it as an argument.
 
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Gottservant

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I was going on the notion that, believing in evolution, you are without recourse to the idea that since God created us it is wrong to interfere with who we are. If you want me to make an argument that it is pro-survival I can. The tracking device means that you are never lost in the system - the system always knows where you are.
 
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KTatis

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I was going on the notion that, believing in evolution, you are without recourse to the idea that since God created us it is wrong to interfere with who we are. If you want me to make an argument that it is pro-survival I can. The tracking device means that you are never lost in the system - the system always knows where you are.
No it's not wrong to interfere. Before science many people had thought that there was only one planet.
 
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Mumbo

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Hmmm... well, a lot of you seem to be saying that "evolution" is just a tool, not a theory. That to me is a lie - evolution is a theory and theories are as much suggestive as they are descriptive, since they lie in the realm of art.
Depends on how you define "tool" and "theory." And "evolution," for that matter.

The theory of evolution explains the diversity of life. Not much else. You're looking for a philosophy where there isn't any. Stop it.

All the same and going back to the subject, it has to be said that changing our design is really a good idea for a lot of people, as they are not born with everything as it should be. There is a big difference between that and abandoning one's design though. Individuality is not just part of our design, it is our design (that we should be individuals). A technology that forced us all to operate as one (being of one mind) would be an anathema to our design (the consequences for which will be discovered soon enough - God will punish those who accept it). That is really what I was trying to say in the opening paragraphs.
Are you just afraid that evolutionists will snatch up any piece of technology that advances the evolution of their own species? For the last time, evolution IS NOT A PHILOSOPHY. Please believe me! I'm telling the truth!
 
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TurtleTamer

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I was going on the notion that, believing in evolution, you are without recourse to the idea that since God created us it is wrong to interfere with who we are. If you want me to make an argument that it is pro-survival I can. The tracking device means that you are never lost in the system - the system always knows where you are.

How does that relate to evolution? In what way does that make the species more viable?
 
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RN4CHRIST

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anunbeliever

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You do you make the massive leap that human genetic engineering = work of The Beast?

I look forward to when humanity will be able to customise itself. Sure theres the possibility of abuse or mistakes. But thats the same with all technology.

Just imagine genetic manipulation being able to extend lifespan or improve life quality. Cure genetic diseases, make people stronger, faster, smarter, better. Sounds great to me.
 
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