"You Can’t Be Truly Feminist If You Don’t Want Women to Control Their Own Bodies"

[Armoured]

The article:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rebec...en-to-control-their-own-bodies_b_9754396.html
"You can want women to do better, but you simply can’t be a feminist if you won’t stand up for reproductive freedom."​

So apparently anti-abortion feminists are not feminists. In order to qualify as a feminist, you have to be in favor of abortion rights.

The issue I have with this, is why then, must feminists constantly annoy and pressure people as to why they are not a feminist? If clearly, (which make sense) there are qualifications as to who gets to be a feminist, why then are feminists surprised that some people are choosing not identifying as feminist? I say this because there are many articles written by feminists upset at the majority of women for instance, not identifying with the label of feminist, and keep on repeating the argument that "feminism is just about equality. If you believe men and women are equal. Then you're a feminist" when we know that isn't true.

I do applaud the feminists who make their stances clearer and straight to the point, but it makes no logical sense whatsoever to act confused as to why most people do not identify with feminism. The club is clearly exclusive to those who qualify (again makes sense) and not everyone will qualify.

Does the author of the piece speak for all feminists, or is he just offering his opinion?

 

[Armoured]

I told you I was asking for clarification as to what you meant by privacy, and even mentioned I wasn't clear on what you meant.

Why answer my question with another question?

Seems a recurring posting style. I don't know what people get out of the whole "imply then deny" thing. But here we are.

 

[Four Angels Standing]

I asked for context and clarification, because medical privacy normally does mean medical records. When I ask for context and clarification it normally means for you to 'clarify' and give 'context'. I'm not sure where I'm losing you.

Once again, can you give context and clarification as to your meaning of it?

You didn't lose me. I do believe I lost you. A woman's reproductive privacy starts with her own womb. Not medical records.

 

[HannahT]

You didn't lose me. I do believe I lost you. A woman's reproductive privacy starts with her own womb. Not medical records.

Okay. What does that even mean? I have never heard of that before.

 

[Followers4christ]

Abortion is a reflection that we have failed women—and women have settled for less.

“When a man steals to satisfy hunger, we may safely conclude that there is something wrong in society—so when a woman destroys the life of her unborn child, it is an evidence that either by education or circumstances she has been greatly wronged.”

—Mattie Brinkerhoff, The Revolution, 4(9):138-9 September 2, 1869

A true feminists wants what's best for women and women issues. The sad fact is abortion is not in the best interest of the woman and can scar a woman both emotionally and physically. As well as destroy a innocent human life in the process.

"Abortion kills twice. It kills the body of the baby and it kills the conscience of the mother. Abortion is profoundly anti-women. Three quarters of its victims are women: Half the babies and all the mothers."
~ Mother Teresa

Plus here is a link on the very early pro-life feminism movement which has been around for 200 years and why feminist opposed abortion:

http://americamagazine.org/issue/feminist-case-against-abortion

Paul, author of the original 1923 Equal Rights Amendment, said that “abortion is the ultimate exploitation of women.”

http://ideas.time.com/2013/01/03/viewpoint-pro-life-and-feminism-arent-mutually-exclusive/

 

[Four Angels Standing]

Okay. What does that even mean? I have never heard of that before.

Maybe you have and I just worded it poorly.
How's this, your womb is none of my business. It is your conscience, your body, your future.
If you want to use birth control when you're married, none of my business. If you want to abort a child in your womb, none of my business. Because if I make it my business I assume partial responsibility for what I must then involve myself in. Which, given the context of the subject matter, is your womb, your child, your future, with or without a child.

I don't have the right to tell you, don't use birth control because I object to birth control. Don't have an abortion because I am opposed to abortion. I can't make your conscience my business. Why? Because there are over seven billion people who have their individual personal life and I am only one among them. I can't pay attention to what everyone else does with their life and their opinion about their sexual organs.
It's private parts after all. That's the label they've been handed for decades. Private parts. Why should your privacy end because I have an opinion about abortion as pertains to my privates? Don't I have my life to live?

Feminism is a matter of personal power, personal responsibility, personal identity, personal privacy. My self is not subject to inventory by others. Opinion, sure. I'm not responsible for what other people think of me. Other people deciding for me my life? Where's it stop if it is allowed to start between my legs?

Personal privacy is why you wear clothes in public.

Did that help you understand?

Yes, I'm all for stopping abortion. That's why I would never have one. Do I have the right to command you, or Susie over there, or Tammy riding the bus , or Jennifer who's a passenger in my car to obey my opinion about abortion?

What do you think?

That's personal reproductive privacy. Keyword, person.

 

[HannahT]

Nope. Never heard of the term before.

People have opinions - and can claim declarations all they want. It doesn't take anything away from you. Birth Control and Abortions are both legal. They can't take that from you, me or any other woman. Unless we are making personal announcements about our wombs - they don't know about that either. Your womb in that way is still private.

I'm still not sure what you are driving at. On the one hand, you are saying people have their opinions on these subjects. Fine. No one that I know of has the power to tell you HOW to do your personal thing at this point in history on these subjects, and then has some way of ENFORCING that. They can yack about the subject all day long, but they can't 'declare' anything regarding you and your personal business. They had that power once upon a time when I was younger, but they do not have that any longer. At least not that I can think of. Maybe you know something I don't.

I'm old at this point, and I have maybe met a handful of people that busy body enough to even go there anyway. I mean WHO in their right mind goes there? Busy Bodies and Nutters are all I can think of.

This started when you spoke of reproductive rights. I asked what reproductive rights are taken from you now? I can't think of any.

 

[Z.Mackenzie]

Does the author of the piece speak for all feminists, or is he just offering his opinion?

The author is technically speaking for all feminists because unfortunately, in order to qualify as a feminist you must agree with the liberal basic tenets of the movement (or current wave) or aim to be as far-left as you can.Currently, the wave right now is controlled and operated by liberal activists only.

I myself have been banned by feminist sites for even saying that conservative women can also be feminists. And i had my fair share of being physically blocked from a feminist student meeting back at my high school for requesting inclusiveness of those with non-liberal beliefs or those who are not "truly liberal" (meaning "liberal enough").

Eventually, I had to learn to just understand and respect that they have their rules and guideline for the movement (or current wave) and disengage.My issue is just with the dishonesty of the feminist movement right now and the constant pressures they are pushing on non-feminists.

 

[HannahT]

It's sad what you wrote Z.Mackenzie!

Feminism started because the world placed women in a box, and expected them to stay there. They had rules, and regulations while inside that box...and had no say. After a while they became accustomed, and accepting of the box. When people started to question that? You would have thought the world was coming to an end.

Now it seems many want women to return the box, but stating it has more freedom...but they still have their rules and regulations.

Since this world LOVES to redefine things all the time now? It seems to me its a new form of Patriarchy.

Women are of worth and respect whether they are liberal or conservative...or anything in between. We all should have the freedom of choice of where we feel our lifes should be lead. It's downright disrespectful not to recognize that, and just learn to agree to disagree.

I don't take this pressure seriously, because they don't have the power to enforce it upon me. I never use the label feminism for myself. It's to fluid, and boxy. It changes like the wind changes direction. It's not a movement - its a cliche. Big Difference.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I find it somewhat ironic that a person with a "stop the killing, stop abortion" flashing sign in their siggy says it's none of their business what a woman does with her womb.

 

[HannahT]

"You can want women to do better, but you simply can’t be a feminist if you won’t stand up for reproductive freedom."

I copied a quote from the article that the above poster copied from the article....lolol! That sentence sounds funny!

ANYWAY!

Sounds like the poster 4 angels - doesn't believe in abortion for herself - but feels others should have that 'freedom' to do so themselves if they feel led. Otherwise, she would be invading their privacy of of reproduction or womb privacy for something like that. Being a equal would mean no restrictions in the realm of reproduction - in which she includes abortion as an option. Having an opinion for others I guess is a breach of that privacy...and yet on the other hand says they are allowed that opinion/viewpoint. That's where she is losing me...I think.

So, if you want to be a stand up feminist you need to stand up for all options even if you don't feel some are options you personally couldn't partake in.

Honestly? I'm not even sure I got that right. I'm just taking a shot in the dark from the comments, because the terminology and how they use it makes it overly confusing.

I mean - I'm still not sure what reproductive rights have been taken away at this point. Birth Control and Abortion are both legal and on the table. Like it or not - they are. So, I'm not sure what part I'm missing that is taken away - or if there is another component that I'm not thinking about. Yet, I'm still not sure I understood her point completely anyway. Sigh.

 

[Armoured]

The author is technically speaking for all feminists because unfortunately, in order to qualify as a feminist you must agree with the liberal basic tenets of the movement (or current wave) or aim to be as far-left as you can.Currently, the wave right now is controlled and operated by liberal activists only.

I myself have been banned by feminist sites for even saying that conservative women can also be feminists. And i had my fair share of being physically blocked from a feminist student meeting back at my high school for requesting inclusiveness of those with non-liberal beliefs or those who are not "truly liberal" (meaning "liberal enough").

Eventually, I had to learn to just understand and respect that they have their rules and guideline for the movement (or current wave) and disengage.My issue is just with the dishonesty of the feminist movement right now and the constant pressures they are pushing on non-feminists.

Uh-huh.

 

[Armoured]

I find it somewhat ironic that a person with a "stop the killing, stop abortion" flashing sign in their siggy says it's none of their business what a woman does with her womb.

Nothing ironic about that. As we've discussed before, you can oppose abortion while still respecting á woman's right to choose.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Nothing ironic about that. As we've discussed before, you can oppose abortion while still respecting á woman's right to choose.

I disagree with that.

It's like saying "hey, I think robbing a bank is bad, but you do you, bro."

At least Christians shouldn't have that attitude.

 

[Four Angels Standing]

I find it somewhat ironic that a person with a "stop the killing, stop abortion" flashing sign in their siggy says it's none of their business what a woman does with her womb.

That's perfectly within your rights to choose to adopt that opinion.

 

[Four Angels Standing]

Nope. Never heard of the term before.

You've never heard of which term exactly? A woman's reproductive right to privacy?

People have opinions - and can claim declarations all they want. It doesn't take anything away from you. Birth Control and Abortions are both legal. They can't take that from you, me or any other woman. Unless we are making personal announcements about our wombs - they don't know about that either. Your womb in that way is still private.

I'm still not sure what you are driving at. On the one hand, you are saying people have their opinions on these subjects. Fine. No one that I know of has the power to tell you HOW to do your personal thing at this point in history on these subjects, and then has some way of ENFORCING that. They can yack about the subject all day long, but they can't 'declare' anything regarding you and your personal business. They had that power once upon a time when I was younger, but they do not have that any longer. At least not that I can think of. Maybe you know something I don't.

I'm old at this point, and I have maybe met a handful of people that busy body enough to even go there anyway. I mean WHO in their right mind goes there? Busy Bodies and Nutters are all I can think of.

This started when you spoke of reproductive rights. I asked what reproductive rights are taken from you now? I can't think of any.

How about women's right to access safe, legal, professional services? Because ultra-right wing activists insist lawmakers should make it near impossible for women to access clinics? You see the privacy issue is that of organized groups insisting they have a right to restrict individual women in their decisions about their reproductive organs.

• Abortion Bans Throughout Pregnancy

• NEJM
  The Supply-Side Economics of Abortion

 

[Z.Mackenzie]

Uh-huh.

?

 

[HannahT]

How about women's right to access safe, legal, professional services? Because ultra-right wing activists insist lawmakers should make it near impossible for women to access clinics? You see the privacy issue is that of organized groups insisting they have a right to restrict individual women in their decisions about their reproductive organs.

We have healthcare now, and so we do have access to safe, legal and professional services. We had them before as well. Those aren't denied us now. Heck, even now that the law requires we all have healthcare? There are still plenty of free clinics around. We have two near by. They can do anything that women's clinics can do, but I doubt they would do abortions. Hinting that we have no care is disingenuous to me. You can get that care in other places besides women's clinics.

I have seen a state recently say they want the clinic doctors to have hospital privileges. No offense, but after that one 'clinic' doctor went to jail due to how he was handling his procedures? I don't see anything wrong with increasing what is required to make sure you don't have some monster again chopping up women for his own pocketbook. It's not unreasonable.

Women are owned that. We should have the best they can offer us. We don't deserve any Kermit Gosnell's. The fact he existed shows our worth with other lawmakers besides the ultra right ones. The other ones claimed they 'inspected' him. There is enough blame to go around with that. There clearly isn't enough regulation to protect women. Yet, no one really screamed that hard about that fact. I guess to some junky care is better than none. I didn't see any left ones stepping in until a couple of women died. Politicians on both sides are all mouth and no action.

Making it harder - which some places are cracking down I realize - doesn't mean you can't find it. It wasn't easy to get care when I was younger, and I needed...with no insurance. I didn't need an abortion, but I had major female issues. I had to travel quite a ways to get that care. It was a female clinic, and yes the dreaded PP that everyone loves to hate today. They made it hard, and I little resources...but I did find it.

They helped me alot during that period of time, and a young lady that we have living here? They helped her as well - she had a more serious problem...cancer. Some of her care isn't covered by PP services (chemo for example), but with no insurance for her either? They found ways of working with other places, hospitals, etc so she could get the care she needs. I had access in the past, and she had access more recently to safe, legal and professional services.

I realize that some wish to find ways of taking abortion off the table, and they make it harder. They can't eliminate it. It's legal. They feel they are doing it for the moral good. They can feel the 'right' all they want to, but unless they have laws to back them up? It really means nothing. Making it harder doesn't mean impossible. I wouldn't have got care, and the young lady that lives with us wouldn't have either. Once again, harder doesn't mean impossible.

 

[Four Angels Standing]

We have healthcare now, and so we do have access to safe, legal and professional services. We had them before as well. Those aren't denied us now. Heck, even now that the law requires we all have healthcare? There are still plenty of free clinics around. We have two near by. They can do anything that women's clinics can do, but I doubt they would do abortions. Hinting that we have no care is disingenuous to me. You can get that care in other places besides women's clinics.

I have seen a state recently say they want the clinic doctors to have hospital privileges. No offense, but after that one 'clinic' doctor went to jail due to how he was handling his procedures? I don't see anything wrong with increasing what is required to make sure you don't have some monster again chopping up women for his own pocketbook. It's not unreasonable.

Women are owned that. We should have the best they can offer us. We don't deserve any Kermit Gosnell's. The fact he existed shows our worth with other lawmakers besides the ultra right ones. The other ones claimed they 'inspected' him. There is enough blame to go around with that. There clearly isn't enough regulation to protect women. Yet, no one really screamed that hard about that fact. I guess to some junky care is better than none. I didn't see any left ones stepping in until a couple of women died. Politicians on both sides are all mouth and no action.

Making it harder - which some places are cracking down I realize - doesn't mean you can't find it. It wasn't easy to get care when I was younger, and I needed...with no insurance. I didn't need an abortion, but I had major female issues. I had to travel quite a ways to get that care. It was a female clinic, and yes the dreaded PP that everyone loves to hate today. They made it hard, and I little resources...but I did find it.

They helped me alot during that period of time, and a young lady that we have living here? They helped her as well - she had a more serious problem...cancer. Some of her care isn't covered by PP services (chemo for example), but with no insurance for her either? They found ways of working with other places, hospitals, etc so she could get the care she needs. I had access in the past, and she had access more recently to safe, legal and professional services.

I realize that some wish to find ways of taking abortion off the table, and they make it harder. They can't eliminate it. It's legal. They feel they are doing it for the moral good. They can feel the 'right' all they want to, but unless they have laws to back them up? It really means nothing. Making it harder doesn't mean impossible. I wouldn't have got care, and the young lady that lives with us wouldn't have either. Once again, harder doesn't mean impossible.

This is an example of violating women's reproductive privacy.

53 Abortion Clinics Closed in 2015, 81% of All Abortion Clinics Open in 1991 Have Shut Down

Bloomberg Quicktake: Abortion clinics are closing in the U.S. at a record pace. In five states — Mississippi, Missouri, North Dakota, South Dakota and Wyoming — just one remains.

 

[Rick Otto]

I disagree with that.

It's like saying "hey, I think robbing a bank is bad, but you do you, bro."

At least Christians shouldn't have that attitude.

Did God give man dominion over man?