YEC, is the universe expanding?

[Jase]

If he is the most powerful, then nothing has power above him and he has power above everything else.

How do you dare say God cannot do as he pleases, however he pleases?

Because if God can defy logic, he can make himself not exist. Do you think the eternal God can remove himself from existence?

God is the embodiment of logic - therefore, he can't defy it.

 

[Assyrian]

Because if God can defy logic, he can make himself not exist. Do you think the eternal God can remove himself from existence?

God is the embodiment of logic - therefore, he can't defy it.

Do we have any reason to think God couldn't remove himself from existence? Just because he hasn't doesn't mean he couldn't. The contradiction in your statement is the eternal God removing himself from existence. But the problem with that is not that it is impossible but that it is self contradictory nonsense. Being eternal and not existing is simply a contradiction in terms. By ceasing to exist God would not be, possibly would never have been eternal. (Though in talking about that we are trying to discuss the nature of time outside our universe, our space time continuum.)

I do agree that the Hebrew concept of God is 'most powerful' while it was the Greek philosophical approach to God that speaks in absolutes, omnipotent omniscient. In one way this has led into real difficulties in theology, an all sovereign God who cannot do anything that will take away from being all sovereign. On the other hand, I do think the Hebrew "most powerful" is simply the Hebrew way of describing the indescribable and that an infinite God is probably the best way we have to describe the Creator of all. But a big problem with the discussion is that so often the "things that are impossible for God" are simply self contradictions, that we can put into words but have no meaning.

 

[98cwitr]

Because if God can defy logic, he can make himself not exist. Do you think the eternal God can remove himself from existence?

God is the embodiment of logic - therefore, he can't defy it.

I would still like to think God "never will" even in that case

 

[callmeMurph]

Because it's all expanding away from a centerpoint.

Technically isn't everywhere and nowhere the center of the universe?

 

[SkyWriting]

Technically isn't everywhere and nowhere the center of the universe?

Just Earth. Cause that's were we are.

 

[shernren]

Do we have any reason to think God couldn't remove himself from existence? Just because he hasn't doesn't mean he couldn't. The contradiction in your statement is the eternal God removing himself from existence. But the problem with that is not that it is impossible but that it is self contradictory nonsense. Being eternal and not existing is simply a contradiction in terms. By ceasing to exist God would not be, possibly would never have been eternal. (Though in talking about that we are trying to discuss the nature of time outside our universe, our space time continuum.)

I do agree that the Hebrew concept of God is 'most powerful' while it was the Greek philosophical approach to God that speaks in absolutes, omnipotent omniscient. In one way this has led into real difficulties in theology, an all sovereign God who cannot do anything that will take away from being all sovereign. On the other hand, I do think the Hebrew "most powerful" is simply the Hebrew way of describing the indescribable and that an infinite God is probably the best way we have to describe the Creator of all. But a big problem with the discussion is that so often the "things that are impossible for God" are simply self contradictions, that we can put into words but have no meaning.

Reminds me of that old, cute argument for the existence of God:

A perfect being would possess all good attributes.
Existence is a good attribute.
-> A perfect being would necessarily exist.
God is perfect
-> Necessarily, God exists.

 

[Assyrian]

 

[98cwitr]

Technically isn't everywhere and nowhere the center of the universe?

everything is expanding away from everything

 

[de_skudd]

Our earth is the center point. I------------I

I think, my question was more concisely attemptingf to detach itself from the Biblical stance, and look at a more physical intrepretation of observation.

How can we determine the center of everything via observation?

98cwitr's comment "everything is expanding away from everything" is logically incoherent. Everything, from a singularity standpoint MUST be expanding awa from a single point!

Now, if we are in fact, moving away from a singularity, the measurements
must be determinate! We must be moving away from one point! And if this is so, it must be measurable!

 

[98cwitr]

But it's not a singular standpoint.

http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/bigbang.html

I don't believe everything in that link...like "time was created at the Big Bang" because time is a man made construct...it's only a perception, there is no literal (tangible) existence of time same as there is no literal existence of numbers. The only thing that literally exists is matter.

 

[Assyrian]

I think, my question was more concisely attemptingf to detach itself from the Biblical stance, and look at a more physical intrepretation of observation.

How can we determine the center of everything via observation?

98cwitr's comment "everything is expanding away from everything" is logically incoherent. Everything, from a singularity standpoint MUST be expanding awa from a single point!

Now, if we are in fact, moving away from a singularity, the measurements
must be determinate! We must be moving away from one point! And if this is so, it must be measurable!

Don't forget the singularity was everything. There is no one point in the unverse that used to be the singularity and we are all moving away from that, everywhere in the universe is where the singularity was, and it is all expanding away from every other part.

 

[SkyWriting]

I think, my question was more concisely attemptingf to detach itself from the Biblical stance, and look at a more physical interpretation of observation.
How can we determine the center of everything via observation?
98cwitr's comment "everything is expanding away from everything" is logically incoherent. Everything, from a singularity standpoint MUST be expanding awa from a single point!
Now, if we are in fact, moving away from a singularity, the measurements
must be determinate! We must be moving away from one point! And if this is so, it must be measurable!

If the original big bang theory was correct, then your thinking would be correct. But that theory had to be discarded and replaced with the weirdest idea than man could imagine. Because only the most outlandish fairy story could match the facts that Science has gathered.

All of space is expanding equally in every direction.

It doesn't support a big bang theory at all so the original band story had to have a sub-plot written into it. After the theoretical "Big - Bang" the cosmos decided there wasn't enough room or time, so it decided to expand equally in all directions. And that what we see. Universal expansion with no center point.

That's also how the cosmos got to be bigger than it is old.
Meaning, the distance from the farthest point we can see, seems to be a larger distance than light could have traveled ( in the amount of time we think has passed.)

Anyway....from our point of view...Earth is the center.
I'm not supposed to say this, but God did it that way
to amaze us. But most just write it off as odd but true.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] It turns out that every point in the universe sees itself as the center!"
- [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] Paul Doherty, Exploratorium Teacher Institute
[/SIZE][/FONT]Exploratorium: Hubble: Where is the center of the Universe?

 

[SkyWriting]

But it's not a singular standpoint.

The Big Bang and the Expansion of the Universe

I don't believe everything in that link...like "time was created at the Big Bang" because time is a man made construct...it's only a perception, there is no literal (tangible) existence of time same as there is no literal existence of numbers. The only thing that literally exists is matter.

Is that zero matter or an infinite lot of matter?
How much matter literally exists?
Or none?

 

[SkyWriting]

Do we have any reason to think God couldn't remove himself from existence?

Good reason #1.

Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses,
"I AM..

 

[Assyrian]

Good reason #1.

Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses,
"I AM..

Don't think that helps, the issue is not that God IS now, but whether he can update his status and NOT BE.

 

[SkyWriting]

Don't think that helps, the issue is not that God IS now, but whether he can update his status and NOT BE.

Then He wouldn't be "I AM" anymore. His name defines Him.
That ends the issue.

 

[ivebeenshown]

Don't think that helps, the issue is not that God IS now, but whether he can update his status and NOT BE.

God could NOT BE and BE at the same time, because he is God. God could also simply NOT BE. Nothing is too hard for God to do.

However, our faith lies in God's word, that he is eternally.

 

[98cwitr]

...

 

[Assyrian]

Then He wouldn't be "I AM" anymore. His name defines Him.
That ends the issue.

Does it define Him or describe Him? However if God chose not to exist it would not define or describe Him anymore. If there even would be an anymore without God.

God could NOT BE and BE at the same time, because he is God.

No I don't think so, because Being and Not Being at the same time are simply a contradiction in terms. We can put it into words, but it is meaningless.

Unless of course we mean Be and Not Be in different senses. But that is another issue.

God could also simply NOT BE. Nothing is too hard for God to do.
However, our faith lies in God's word, that he is eternally.

And trustworthy.

 

[Assyrian]

...

I agree