Would you say that Orthodoxy is focused on the bad stuff?

[127.0.0.1]

I can't quite conjure the correct wording for the title, my apologies.

Would you say, however, that Orthodoxy focused on negative aspects of yourself? In Orthodox thought, yes, we are all sinners (I the chief of them), fall short of the glory of God, and God is pure love and bliss. I understand this.

There is a pretty strong masochistic streak not just in Orthodoxy but even in Catholicism.

Catholic monks used to devise ways of torturing themselves to repent of certain sins.

In the Philippines, there is a yearly Paschal tradition of Catholic individuals literally crucifying themselves (nails through hands an feet), they are then hoisted up for a few minutes before being taken down and rushed to a nearby ambulance in wait.

(Note: The Catholic Church does not endorse the practice of crucifying oneself)

A lot of that mentality has come into Orthodoxy. Often in the prologue we glorify Saints for how much they either were tortured by others or tortured by themselves.

In all this focus on self-torture, often what is lost is a focus on coming to Love God's people and His creation. People believe the path to salvation lies in removing oneself from other people and from the rest of God's creation.

Here, they come to love God, not through what God has done or what God has made, but rather they can dream up their own ideas of what/who God is, and come to love Him through their own imagination.

It is much easier to love God when He is nothing more than an abstract concept to you. The moment you encounter the very works of His Hands, suddenly to love God becomes work, it becomes a struggle, because you must struggle to come to love the very works of His Hands, and one of those works, is you.

There was a Catholic Pope in the middle ages who wrote a long diatribe in which he wrote how much he despised himself and his own body. He went into detail attacking every part of the human body and described how disgusting it is.
This mentality is alive an well today, you can find it in just about any monastery.

 

[desertfathersincense]

I love it when snarky people jump on people for being snarky and then proceed to snarkily judge them. Good times...

Thanks for the character judgment, dfi. Happy Lent

Yes and I saw your other response too. I will be 47 this year. I no longer care whether you think I am "nice" or not. I tell the truth as I see it, and I am not afraid to holy-smack converts when I think they need it. So, shoot me. And by the way, I am not so holy that I even remember it is Lent. I just say what is on my mind, no matter what time of year it is. And that includes Lent. New Calender or Old Calendar makes no difference to me. Truth is truth and if it hurts, too bad.... take some chamomile tea for pain and willow bark for breakthrough pain. And if you need a shot of rum to handle my answers, take that too, and go to bed. You work out your crap and I'll work out mine. Don't expect me to be all tidy and "clean" on the internet. If you do, you will be very disappointed. And that will be entirely your fault.

 

[ArmyMatt]

come on now, let's not argue on here. we all know how this leads and how easy it is to missread someone

 

[AureateDawn]

Sigh..

 

[Cappadocious]

Snarky much?

I don't care if I take a beating for this or not. Our Catholic brother is correct and your comment is out of line. (not to mention FAR from the Orthodox humility that is our yardstick).

For the original person who asked the question: what you are describing is a a parish over-run by converts from Protestantism. I have been where you are. And the "flip side" is the "ethnic/cradle parish" that is not only far more forgiving, but also far more "Orthodox".

if you are in a Russian parish that is cradle and you are hearing this stuff, that doesn't surprise me either. Seek out an Antiochian or other "ethnic" parish where the priest understands what you are trying to say. I understood you very well. Just print out your post and hand it to him. If he has a brain, he will understand it.

You are right, whether you know it now or not, and ignore people here who are trying to bash you on the head with your so-called "depravity". Such people are infected with the disease of Calvinism and you are not required to suffer that nonsense.

God bless you. Again.

A lot of what you say is true. The way you are saying it is false.

Relax, step back.

Don't repay LARP with LARP.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Snarkier than my posts, crude and vulgar, lacking in humility...Nice job. Happy Lent.

I've heard that being trapped for years in small trailers with too much incense can lead to all sorts of emotionalism...

Yes and I saw your other response too. I will be 47 this year. I no longer care whether you think I am "nice" or not. I tell the truth as I see it, and I am not afraid to holy-smack converts when I think they need it. So, shoot me. And by the way, I am not so holy that I even remember it is Lent. I just say what is on my mind, no matter what time of year it is. And that includes Lent. New Calender or Old Calendar makes no difference to me. Truth is truth and if it hurts, too bad.... take some chamomile tea for pain and willow bark for breakthrough pain. And if you need a shot of rum to handle my answers, take that too, and go to bed. You work out your crap and I'll work out mine. Don't expect me to be all tidy and "clean" on the internet. If you do, you will be very disappointed. And that will be entirely your fault.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

What part of what she is saying is true?

A lot of what you say is true. The way you are saying it is false.

Relax, step back.

Don't repay LARP with LARP.

 

[RobNJ]

What part of what she is saying is true?

Which part isn't?

 

[Cappadocious]

What part of what she is saying is true?

The stuff about convertitis in many cases.

Now, let the 13-year-olds-fighting-in-youtube-comments exchange be at an end.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Youtube?

Now, let the 13-year-olds-fighting-in-youtube-comments exchange be at an end.

 

[Memento Mori]

Youtube?

YouTube

 

[AureateDawn]

To bring the thread back to something more interesting than petty Internet bickering - But what about actions? Why focus so much on what we do wrong, which further exacerbates the problem?

 

[Monica child of God 1]

To bring the thread back to something more interesting than petty Internet bickering - But what about actions? Why focus so much on what we do wrong, which further exacerbates the problem?

I don't see the focus you're talking about. Sorry. We examine ourselves, we confess, we get absolved. We celebrate the Eucharist. I don't see what you're seeing, I guess.

We fall down, we get up, over and over until we have been perfected. We focus on God, aquisition of the Holy Spirit, good works and service. That's the Christian life.

M.

 

[nutroll]

I also don't see the negativity that you see. But then I think referring to ourselves as sinners is simply describing ourselves truthfully, not negatively. If I call a pink car pink,I am being honest about its color. To be negative would be to call it ugly. It involves judgment, not just observation.

The kinds of new age stuff you seem attracted to are the same things my father-in-law has been practicing for years now, and it has not made him any happier or more fulfilled as far as I can see. In fact he is one of the most negative people I know. He thinks he can fix everything wrong with himself and others, but none of the fixes get to the root of the problem. So he keeps looking for another energy fix. Orthodoxy does get to the root of our problem, but it requires us to see ourselves as we are so that we can become what we wish to be in Christ.

 

[Monica child of God 1]

Thinking about it more-- There are so many blessings in orthodoxy. It's a difficult life and a struggle. But I feel blessed by even the simplest things. There's so much beauty all around and love and joy. Sure, I am a sinner. I mess up and i hurt people because my heart is not pure. And sometimes people hurt me, too. But orthodoxy shows me that God (the most high God!) is solid in His love for me and all humankind. It shows me how, by God's grace, the teeny tiny piece of the universe under my purview can put aright by seeking forgiveness, forgiving others, loving, serving, being truthful, glorifying God and giving Him thanks. That is lovely and I think on those kinds of things.

Philippians 4:8--

"Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."

M.

 

[Lukaris]

If you really get into your own brokenness you actually start to understand the potential for God's mercy to anyone. We have the propensity to do good & the propensity to do evil (bcause the fall).The Beatitudes are clear as day about this; the virtues outlined by the Lord to humanity in general although the final Beatitude is exclusively Christian. Hardly any of us can claim these (& those who can will not). From this understanding, we can realize God will save & condemn whether one is Orthodox Christian, other Christian, & non Christian. The Orthodox Christian has the fulfillment of truth in faith & the ability to repent of sins but not a monopoly on love.

 

[ArmyMatt]

To bring the thread back to something more interesting than petty Internet bickering - But what about actions? Why focus so much on what we do wrong, which further exacerbates the problem?

but that's the great paradox. by looking to our faults, and seeing ourselves for who we are and what we have done, we grow in virtue and love. it opens us to God's grace.

 

[Cappadocious]

Why focus so much on what we do wrong, which further exacerbates the problem?

Can you give an example?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

No need for sarcasm. I obviously am aware of Youtube, smarty pants, or I wouldn't have posted Youtube links on here for years. I didn't understand his point about Youtube "comments" and this thread

YouTube

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Nicely-said, nut

I also don't see the negativity that you see. But then I think referring to ourselves as sinners is simply describing ourselves truthfully, not negatively. If I call a pink car pink,I am being honest about its color. To be negative would be to call it ugly. It involves judgment, not just observation.

The kinds of new age stuff you seem attracted to are the same things my father-in-law has been practicing for years now, and it has not made him any happier or more fulfilled as far as I can see. In fact he is one of the most negative people I know. He thinks he can fix everything wrong with himself and others, but none of the fixes get to the root of the problem. So he keeps looking for another energy fix. Orthodoxy does get to the root of our problem, but it requires us to see ourselves as we are so that we can become what we wish to be in Christ.