"Work out your own salvation"

[believeume]

Is salvation in your hands?

What are you supposed to work out?

And

Why do so many Christians try to work out other peoples salvation for them?

 

[believeume]

Can a moderator please correct the thread title.

Thank you

 

[Soyeong]

Is salvation in your hands?

What are you supposed to work out?

And

Why do so many Christians try to work out other peoples salvation for them?

Hello,

The Bible speaks about our salvation in the past, present, and future tenses (Ephesians 2:5, Philippians 2:12, Romans 5:9-10), so we have been saved from the penalty of our sins, we are being saved from continuing to sin, and we will be saved from God's wrath on the day of the Lord. According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation involves being saved from the penalty of sin by Christ giving himself to redeem us from all lawlessness, but it also involves God's grace training us to do what God has revealed to be godly, righteous, and good and training us to renounce doing what God has revealed to be ungodly, sinful, and lawless. According to Ephesians 2:8-10, we have been saved by grace through faith in the past, not by doing good works, but for the purpose of doing good works by grace through faith in the present. So working out our salvation does not refer to Christ's payment for the penalty of our sins, but rather it refers to the training we are receiving by God's grace through faith to do good works and to refrain from continuing to sin.

It's a lot easier to want to make changes to other people than to make changes to ourselves.

 

[redleghunter]

Is salvation in your hands?

What are you supposed to work out?

And

Why do so many Christians try to work out other peoples salvation for them?

The first question is very good and the verse you partially quote regards sanctification.

You might have heard Christian salvation discussed in the following way:

I am saved----justified. This is positional

I am being saved----sanctification. This is the forging of the metal, the working out.

I will be saved----glorification. At the Resurrection we will be glorified.

On the working out, one of the best sermons on the topic I heard a number of years ago and I excerpt some of it below. Since you are exploring Christianity I'm sure you won't mind clicking for the remainder.

The fifth motive for believers’ working out their sanctification is understanding the consequences of sin. Although God is loving, merciful, and forgiving, He nevertheless holds believers accountable for disobedience. Like John, Paul understood well that “if we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:8–9). Knowing that he serves a holy and just God, the faithful believer will always live with fear and trembling. Feartranslates phobos, which describes fright or terror (cf. Matt. 14:26; Luke 21:26; 1 Cor. 2:3) as well as reverential awe (cf. Acts 2:43; 9:31; 2 Cor. 5:11; 7:1). Trembling is from tromos, which refers to shaking and is the word from which the English word tremor derives. Both of those are proper reactions to the awareness of one’s own spiritual weakness and the power of temptation. The Lord seeks such an attitude in His children, as His words in Isaiah 66:2 indicate: “To this one I will look, to him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at My word.”


An important Old Testament truth is “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom” (Ps. 111:10; cf. Prov. 1:7; 9:10). This is not a fear of being doomed to eternal torment, nor a hopeless dread of judgment that leads to despair. It is rather a reverential fear, a holy concern to give God the honor He deserves and avoid the chastening of His displeasure. Such fear protects against temptation and sin and gives motivation for obedient, righteous living.


Aware of his own personal weakness, Paul spoke of his “fear and … trembling” as he ministered to the church in Corinth (1 Cor. 2:3), and later of those believers who received Titus with the same kind of “fear and trembling” (2 Cor. 7:15). This kind of “fear and trembling” is closely related both to obedience to the Lord and to love and affection for Him and for fellow believers. It is for that reason that Solomon could declare: “How blessed [happy] is the man who fears always” (Prov. 28:14).


Such fear involves self-distrust, a sensitive conscience, and being on guard against temptation. It necessitates opposing pride, and being constantly aware of the deceitfulness of one’s heart, as well as of the subtlety and strength of one’s inner corruption. It is a dread that seeks to avoid anything that would offend and dishonor God.

http://www.gty.org/resources/bible-qna/BQ052112/what-does-it-mean-to-work-out-your-salvation

Another good source:

http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/why-must-we-work-out-our-salvation

 

[believeume]

The first question is very good and the verse you partially quote regards sanctification.

You might have heard Christian salvation discussed in the following way:

I am saved----justified. This is positional

I am being saved----sanctification. This is the forging of the metal, the working out.

I will be saved----glorification. At the Resurrection we will be glorified.

On the working out, one of the best sermons on the topic I heard a number of years ago and I excerpt some of it below. Since you are exploring Christianity I'm sure you won't mind clicking for the remainder.

The fifth motive for believers’ working out their sanctification is understanding the consequences of sin. Although God is loving, merciful, and forgiving, He nevertheless holds believers accountable for disobedience. Like John, Paul understood well that “if we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:8–9). Knowing that he serves a holy and just God, the faithful believer will always live with fear and trembling. Feartranslates phobos, which describes fright or terror (cf. Matt. 14:26; Luke 21:26; 1 Cor. 2:3) as well as reverential awe (cf. Acts 2:43; 9:31; 2 Cor. 5:11; 7:1). Trembling is from tromos, which refers to shaking and is the word from which the English word tremor derives. Both of those are proper reactions to the awareness of one’s own spiritual weakness and the power of temptation. The Lord seeks such an attitude in His children, as His words in Isaiah 66:2 indicate: “To this one I will look, to him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at My word.”


An important Old Testament truth is “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom” (Ps. 111:10; cf. Prov. 1:7; 9:10). This is not a fear of being doomed to eternal torment, nor a hopeless dread of judgment that leads to despair. It is rather a reverential fear, a holy concern to give God the honor He deserves and avoid the chastening of His displeasure. Such fear protects against temptation and sin and gives motivation for obedient, righteous living.


Aware of his own personal weakness, Paul spoke of his “fear and … trembling” as he ministered to the church in Corinth (1 Cor. 2:3), and later of those believers who received Titus with the same kind of “fear and trembling” (2 Cor. 7:15). This kind of “fear and trembling” is closely related both to obedience to the Lord and to love and affection for Him and for fellow believers. It is for that reason that Solomon could declare: “How blessed [happy] is the man who fears always” (Prov. 28:14).


Such fear involves self-distrust, a sensitive conscience, and being on guard against temptation. It necessitates opposing pride, and being constantly aware of the deceitfulness of one’s heart, as well as of the subtlety and strength of one’s inner corruption. It is a dread that seeks to avoid anything that would offend and dishonor God.

http://www.gty.org/resources/bible-qna/BQ052112/what-does-it-mean-to-work-out-your-salvation

Another good source:

http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/why-must-we-work-out-our-salvation

Well thanks for that, that's giving me ideas.

 

[Soyeong]

The first question is very good and the verse you partially quote regards sanctification.

You might have heard Christian salvation discussed in the following way:

I am saved----justified. This is positional

I am being saved----sanctification. This is the forging of the metal, the working out.

I will be saved----glorification. At the Resurrection we will be glorified.

I think justification and sanctification also have past, present, and future aspects:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/PASTPRES.htm

 

[redleghunter]

Why do so many Christians try to work out other peoples salvation for them?

Now the second question. Salvation is a gift from God. No one can work out another's salvation. Fellow Christians can be a blessing in a supportive role in helping other Christians grow and mature. One of Jesus' last commands to His disciples was to love each other as He loved them. Which is a much higher standard than the love your neighbor as yourself.


John 13:34-35 New King James Version (NKJV)
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

 

[redleghunter]

I think even justification and sanctification also have past, present, and future aspects:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/PASTPRES.htm

Your explanation was much better.

 

[believeume]

Now the second question. Salvation is a gift from God. No one can work out another's salvation. Fellow Christians can be a blessing in a supportive role in helping other Christians grow and mature. One of Jesus' last commands to His disciples was to love each other as He loved them. Which is a much higher standard than the love your neighbor as yourself.


John 13:34-35 New King James Version (NKJV)
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Constantly I'm seeing Christians bible bash other Christians, and more.

Like trying to save everyone, well that's not your job if each Christian has to work out their own salvation.

 

[believeume]

And I was apart of that group, as modest as I am I still felt I had to save people (Win them for Christ)
I always felt low for acting like that.

Low and pathetic.

 

[Soyeong]

Constantly I'm seeing Christians bible bash other Christians, and more.

Like trying to save everyone, well that's not your job if each Christian has to work out their own salvation.

The Great Commission says that we are to go out and make disciples, so the Christians who are mature in their faith should be teaching others who are less mature in their faith how to follow God both by word and by example. There are naturally good and bad ways to go about trying to do this.

 

[believeume]

The Great Commission says that we are to go out and make disciples, so the Christians who are mature in their faith should be teaching others who are less mature in their faith how to follow God both by word and by example. There are naturally good and bad ways to go about trying doing this.

Tell me how that works, for you.

 

[redleghunter]

Constantly I'm seeing Christians bible bash other Christians, and more.

Like trying to save everyone, well that's not your job if each Christian has to work out their own salvation.

Well yes our own pilgrimage on earth is quite a challenge day by day. However if you go to the full chapter 13 of the Gospel of John you see the King of Kings washing a bunch of dusty and quite possibly stinky feet on the night He was betrayed.

From that aspect...of serving and building one another we are involved and sharing other Christians joys and burdens.

I think you meant being critical of one another instead of constructive?

 

[redleghunter]

And I was apart of that group, as modest as I am I still felt I had to save people (Win them for Christ)
I always felt low for acting like that.

Low and pathetic.

Ephesians 6:19 says we are to be fearless in presenting the Gospel. We can't make people listen, believe, have trust and faith. That is the Work of the Holy Spirit.

We are also told not to be ashamed of the Gospel.

 

[redleghunter]

Constantly I'm seeing Christians bible bash other Christians, and more.

Like trying to save everyone, well that's not your job if each Christian has to work out their own salvation.

Bible bashing in what way? An example would help. Thanks.

I have seen theological debates get heated, however most would not refuse the Lord's Table from another.

I have also seen quite often here on CF questions of morality debated as well.

If that is what you meant please let me know and we can break it down.

 

[believeume]

Bible bashing in what way? An example would help. Thanks.

I have seen theological debates get heated, however most would not refuse the Lord's Table from another.

I have also seen quite often here on CF questions of morality debated as well.

If that is what you meant please let me know and we can break it down.

A bible basher is someone who forcefully uses the bible to convict people of sin, especially verses pertaining to hell.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Is salvation in your hands?

Yes.

What are you supposed to work out?

Your salvation. (healing) (If you don't, NO ONE ELSE WILL)

Why do so many Christians try to work out other peoples salvation for them?

It's a job.
Do they heal anyone ? (i.e. if someone needs healing, they should go to someone who can heal them)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

A bible basher is someone who forcefully uses the bible to convict people of sin, especially verses pertaining to hell.

That's not the common meaning that it was last century.
It used to mean someone who disrespects the CREATOR of ALL LIFE and HIS WORD.

 

[believeume]

That's not the common meaning that it was last century.
It used to mean someone who disrespects the CREATOR of ALL LIFE and HIS WORD.

I disagree.

 

[believeume]

Yes.

Your salvation. (healing) (If you don't, NO ONE ELSE WILL)

It's a job.
Do they heal anyone ? (i.e. if someone needs healing, they should go to someone who can heal them)

Are you yelling at me with some of your text, or are you yelling at the room?