WooHoo Submission

[Psalm63]

What I meant, actually was that you had earlier referred to how husbands ought to be acting protectively towards their wives, is that not true? So could you sum up in a similar way how wives are to act towards their husbands?

I don't think that was me, McScribe. I have experience with only one husband for 28 1/2 years and he is not a man who has a "protective" bone in his body. If you ask me, he is not all that unique; the reality is that many many husbands out there look out for #1 and aren't the least bit protective. I would like to talk young women out of the fantasy of expecting that and into the reality of standing up for themselves and PROTECTING themselves and their children as needed.

That said, and knowing YOUR story, a wife DOES have a biblical responsibility to protect her husband IMO. I see this in 1 Cor 7 which speaks of benevolence (kindness) in the relationship, and the provision of marriage to meet our sexual needs.
Christian marriage should NOT be characterized by long term sexual deprivation (barring some sort of serious health issue or overseas deployment).

And NOT your story, but continuing my views on a wife's protective role toward her husband: 1 Peter 3 speaks of a MARRIED woman's "chaste/pure" behavior providing a winsome testimony to a disobedient husband (eg. of CHASTE wife: husband into inappropriate content, wife insists on mutually satisfying and respectful sexual intimacy and does NOT morph herself into a harlot "servicing him" on demand like the inappropriate content images of his imaginations) and Titus 2:2 which speaks of a wife being her husband's FRIEND and being sober minded (twice). (sober minded=realistic???, ie. drop the cinderella fairy tale expectation)

 

[Psalm63]

I can understand why some may feel it's disrespectful. But that doesn't make it a fact that it is disrespectful.

And that makes me think my effort to help you understand has failed.

You have still not been able to put yourself in the shoes of women/wives who find DISRESPECTFUL this idea that the husband holds a "final decision making authority" trump card over them for their entire lives simply based on the fact that they happen to be born female.

If you were a black man down south in the 19th century I think you might understand better.

Nevertheless, in America in the 21st century WIVES can unilaterally dump this theology. I have done so and I can't even express to you how freeing it is! This very morning my husband turned up John Hagee really loud on the TV saying "husbands submit to their wives' need. wives submit to their husband's lead." Catchy phrase, but unbiblical

I asked him the same thing I ask you

SHOW me the verse where GOD tells you to LEAD your wife? Show me the verse that tells you that you have "final decision making authority" over her life? It's all man-made tradition and its not in there (except as an example of pagan "law" Esther 1:22)

 

[McScribe]

And that makes me think my effort to help you understand has failed.

You have still not been able to put yourself in the shoes of women/wives who find DISRESPECTFUL this idea that the husband holds a "final decision making authority" trump card over them for their entire lives simply based on the fact that they happen to be born female.

If you were a black man down south in the 19th century I think you might understand better.

Nevertheless, in America in the 21st century WIVES can unilaterally dump this theology. I have done so and I can't even express to you how freeing it is! This very morning my husband turned up John Hagee really loud on the TV saying "husbands submit to their wives' need. wives submit to their husband's lead." Catchy phrase, but unbiblical

I asked him the same thing I ask you

SHOW me the verse where GOD tells you to LEAD your wife? Show me the verse that tells you that you have "final decision making authority" over her life? It's all man-made tradition and its not in there (except as an example of pagan "law" Esther 1:22)

Has Chaz said that? I haven't seen where he did.

 

[McScribe]

I don't think that was me, McScribe. I have experience with only one husband for 28 1/2 years and he is not a man who has a "protective" bone in his body. If you ask me, he is not all that unique; the reality is that many many husbands out there look out for #1 and aren't the least bit protective. I would like to talk young women out of the fantasy of expecting that and into the reality of standing up for themselves and PROTECTING themselves and their children as needed.

That said, and knowing YOUR story, a wife DOES have a biblical responsibility to protect her husband IMO. I see this in 1 Cor 7 which speaks of benevolence (kindness) in the relationship, and the provision of marriage to meet our sexual needs.
Christian marriage should NOT be characterized by long term sexual deprivation (barring some sort of serious health issue or overseas deployment).

And NOT your story, but continuing my views on a wife's protective role toward her husband: 1 Peter 3 speaks of a MARRIED woman's "chaste/pure" behavior providing a winsome testimony to a disobedient husband (eg. of CHASTE wife: husband into inappropriate content, wife insists on mutually satisfying and respectful sexual intimacy and does NOT morph herself into a harlot "servicing him" on demand like the inappropriate content images of his imaginations) and Titus 2:2 which speaks of a wife being her husband's FRIEND and being sober minded (twice). (sober minded=realistic???, ie. drop the cinderella fairy tale expectation)

I appreciate what you are saying, and perhaps it might be beneficial to bring this up in the sex on tap thread, but what I guess I'm driving at is that there is a general approach to loving kindness proposed in Ephesians and I wanted to know if you had a paraphrase perhaps of how husbands and wives are to treat one another, I hope this is not frustrating. What I mean is if you could sum up the idea of Epehsians marital love in a couple of sentences or so to a young couple, what would you say?

 

[dallasapple]

I don't think that was me, McScribe. I have experience with only one husband for 28 1/2 years and he is not a man who has a "protective" bone in his body. If you ask me, he is not all that unique; the reality is that many many husbands out there look out for #1 and aren't the least bit protective. I would like to talk young women out of the fantasy of expecting that and into the reality of standing up for themselves and PROTECTING themselves and their children as needed.

That said, and knowing YOUR story, a wife DOES have a biblical responsibility to protect her husband IMO. I see this in 1 Cor 7 which speaks of benevolence (kindness) in the relationship, and the provision of marriage to meet our sexual needs.
Christian marriage should NOT be characterized by long term sexual deprivation (barring some sort of serious health issue or overseas deployment).

And NOT your story, but continuing my views on a wife's protective role toward her husband: 1 Peter 3 speaks of a MARRIED woman's "chaste/pure" behavior providing a winsome testimony to a disobedient husband (eg. of CHASTE wife: husband into inappropriate content, wife insists on mutually satisfying and respectful sexual intimacy and does NOT morph herself into a harlot "servicing him" on demand like the inappropriate content images of his imaginations) and Titus 2:2 which speaks of a wife being her husband's FRIEND and being sober minded (twice). (sober minded=realistic???, ie. drop the cinderella fairy tale expectation)

I agree..and long term sexual deprivation can not be confused with "repeated rejection over the years"..getting sex 1 to 2x a week or even 3 times a month is not 'long term sexual deprivation"..

Dallas

 

[dallasapple]

No its not the same reasoning Chaz..we woudlnt exist without God..God created us..a man doesn't "create" his wife..We exist because of God..then our PARENTS male and female created us thats why we were born..And by anyones account its the FEMALES contribtuion to even accomplish that ..that is far more involved to make it possible/succesful..Therefore its very insulting /disrespectful..to suddenly say the woman..just becasue she gets married which is COMPLETELY optional..shes apparrently O.K to decide that for herself..suddenly needs to "submit" to a man..or have the man for her authority..

Dallas

 

[Psalm63]

I appreciate what you are saying, and perhaps it might be beneficial to bring this up in the sex on tap thread, but what I guess I'm driving at is that there is a general approach to loving kindness proposed in Ephesians and I wanted to know if you had a paraphrase perhaps of how husbands and wives are to treat one another, I hope this is not frustrating. What I mean is if you could sum up the idea of Epehsians marital love in a couple of sentences or so to a young couple, what would you say?

No way I can put it into a couple sentences, McScribe. Sorry.

I know for a fact if you read it yourself and ask God to show you and keep thinking about it, turning it over and over in your mind, He will give you insights. Here is one lightbulb moment I had “Submitting” is a Participle


What I did want to say to you is that YOU were a great husband and father and your marriage ended through no fault of your own. YOU did not control your wife. I see you on here. You are able to speak "the truth in love" respectfully on all sides of an issue. You are friends with Cons and I consider you a friend. When we did have a conflict, you deleted the thread (or it was deleted, anyway). And you have such loyalty to stay here on the Married forum with people you have come to know even though you are single again.

I'm not sure WHY you went through all that, but I think it probably had a whole lot more to do with the fact that you have a godly, christ-like character and so God selected you for a particularly difficult assignment. Your ex-wife and your step sons NEEDED to have a little experience of Jesus with skin and God chose YOU for that job.

"BUT WHY ME???"

Because HE had the utmost confidence in you, McScribe! He knows your heart!

But I read somewhere you saying that you might not even consider marrying again... and I think that's sad because you are really such an exceptional example of Christ-like husbandry and fatherhood. But I can understand and agree with you in prayer that your next marriage is much more mutual in Christ-likeness.

 

[Romanseight2005]

God is God! He created us as equal human beings. No one is saying that submission is bad. What some of us are saying is that unilateral one way submission based only on gender is not right. Iow, being born male, does not automatically make one a good leader.

In fact, every time I have heard a comparison, it doesn't really compare. Why? Because situations like employers, or Military authorities, are all based on the one in authority having more experience, or education, thus giving them proper reasons to be in charge. Sure, not all bosses should be there, but they still got there by having some kind of skill, education, etc. that warrants the position. In the case of parents and children, again, we have a situation where the parents have more experience, and hopefully, maturity, to lead their children, and that leading doesn't last forever. It's only until the child grows up and can stand on their own.

This situation with a woman always needing to do what the husband says, either has to mean that he has some special skills, experience, education,etc. that qualifies him for this.

Alas, I concur with Jane, when she said that in reality, most of the people on here who are saying that they believe in the wife's submission to the husband,(not mutual, but one way) are actually descrubing similar scenario's to those of us who believe in mutual submission. So it seems that calling it a,"wife's submission," is really just a title.

The people who I have seen posting in various areas, who are really living out wifely submission, as in she obeys in all things, are usually on the threads describing how miserable and they are. The description of lost identity, etc. is a common theme amongst them. These are not the outliers either. These are the ones that are really doing unilateral submission.

 

[JaneFW]

I just want to let y'all know that I have asked for this thread to be closed. It's not a comment on anyone's posting, I just think it has run its course. I hope that nobody is upset. I won't be here much after today as my school starts tomorrow, the kids go back to school, I still have work, etc ... so I know that nothing was resolved (no surprise there), but I do still have questions that were unanswered so I guess they will stay unanswered!! Oh well.

 

[JaneFW]

I hope that you have a great semester too Psalms.

 

[JaneFW]

I had difficulty understanding this post as it is very general and addresses generalities. What exactly is being asked and to whom - specifically?

We were told to address the subject matter, and that is what I am doing. The question is asked of whomever wishes to respond.

 

[JaneFW]

LOL!!! I was just texting my h and using "swype" does anyone else have swype? You swipe the keyboard to make up a word and sometimes it has to guess your word. I was telling him something about his debit card, and when I looked at my message after I sent it to him, it said "your submit card". Oh my goodness!! My phone is confused too!

 

[Johnnz]

Psalm63

Thanks for that link.

John
NZ

 

[Criada]

Mod Hat On​

This thread has been cleaned up.
A lot of very personal comments have been removed.
Please discuss the OP and leave your differences with other members aside
Thanks

Mod Hat Off​

 

[Conservativation]

Well maybe I wasnt so far off when I expressed that this thread was not a good idea as it was going anyway. There are hurt feelings, anger, and several threads being closed due to the topic, and I wonder......any new insight? Was it profitable?

 

[JaneFW]

Well maybe I wasnt so far off when I expressed that this thread was not a good idea as it was going anyway. There are hurt feelings, anger, and several threads being closed due to the topic, and I wonder......any new insight? Was it profitable?

There are no new insights because people don't answer questions!

 

[Criada]

Mod Hat On (again!)
​

Thread closed at OP request.

Mod Hat Off​