Women pastors, the spirit of whoredom (2)

[KCDAD]

This is the problem with their doctrine & theology; it contradicts other scriptures to be true. Trinitarians however use ALL the verses together to show the fullness of the Godhead & their individual uniqueness - even ORDER in the Godhead.
Just as the Husband is "head" of the wife, so the Father is "head" of Christ... but it doesn't make them unequal as One God - no more than it makes a husband BETTER than his wife as a human being.

They can't mentally grasp how God can have order within His person. Oh well... I have NO contradictions in my bible - nontrinitarians do in order to believe that heresy.

The scriptures do that all by themselves. That is why different people can have different interpretations of its meaning. ALL the scriptures EXCEPT those that don't agree with the trinity doctrine. I happen to believe in the trinity, but that is not the point. It is not a Biblical doctrine and you can not find it there. It was developed by the early church NOT based on scripture.

If you have no contradictions in your Bible, you must have torn out about half the pages.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

Hebrews 2 explains nothing. It merely relates a story. There is no explanation.



Reread that statement. "Before, Abraham was. I am." Abraham was in the past. I am now. (There is no punctuation in text.)



ROFL... What a wicked attempt at translation!



Is God flesh? Not according to scripture, and not according to any definition of deity that I have ever heard of. God is spirit and you must worship him in spirit and in truth.



So the flesh is at enmity with God. God is not at enmity with flesh. It doesn't matter what the creation thinks or does, the Creator stills loves.

The flesh is dead... it will not continue the spirit lives on in fellowship with God, or separate from God, forever.

 

[2ducklow]

No that's is completely ignoring the text which reads Jesus' response was to the question :

Jhn 8:57
"...Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?"

Why do you leave out the preceding verse which is obviously what Jesus responded to. He was answering a question: what question?

"...Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?"

Answer: "....Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

Jesus saying "I am befoe abraham was" is either extremely bad grammer, or it wasn't what he meant. Since we have no examples of Jesus using extremely bad grammer, it can't be that. so Jesus was not saying "befoe abraham was I am" or "I am befoe abraham was." So he isn't answering the question dierectly. Actually you can't tell from the text exactly what his meaning was, but from other scriptures, which yours truely has graciously posted previously, we know that he was claiming to be the Christ. Just look at his discourse prior to saying "before Abraham was I am" he is talking about him and his Father who is god. nothing in his previous dialogue can be taken to mean that he is claiming to be God , but rather it all points to him claiming to be the Christ.
You are making yourself look bad by calling perfectly logical statements of mine illogical, I know you're hurt but it's makin ya look bad JDub.

Your answer is in contradiction to the text, and, in your answer you remove the objection to your illogic, as if to say Jesus was answering His own statement and not the question the Pharisees asked him.
.

JEsus is obviously not claiming to be god in the dialogue that preceeds john 8.58, not when he says such things as,

John 8:16 Yea and if I judge, my judgment is true; for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

him and the Father,

John 8:17-18 Yea and in your law it is written, that the witness of two men is true. I am he that beareth witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

Him and the Father are 2.

John 8:17-18 Yea and in your law it is written, that the witness of two men is true. I am he that beareth witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

Jesus and his Father.

John 8:26 I have many things to speak and to judge concerning you: howbeit he that sent me is true; and the things which I heard from him, these speak I unto the world.

Jesus speaks what he has heard from his Father, not his own words.
John 8:27 They perceived not that he spake to them of the Father.

They didn't know that Jesus was talking about his Daddy.

John 8:28 Jesus therefore said, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself, but as the Father taught me, I speak these things.

Jesus says he can't do nothing, it's all his father that does everything.

John 8:29 And he that sent me is with me; he hath not left me alone; for I do always the things that are pleasing to him.

the father is with Jesus, Jesus aint ever alone.

If jesus was claimin to be God he wouldn't preceed it with claims that he can't do nothing. vs.28.

It's crystal clear.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Originally Posted by Floatingaxe
John 18:5-6
“Jesus the Nazarene,” they replied.
“I Am he,” Jesus said. (Judas, who betrayed him, was standing with them.) As Jesus said “I Am he,” they all drew back and fell to the ground!

How many people have that kind of overwhelming power, that upon saying, "I Am he", that people fall over prostrate?

Only God can speak "I Am" and command immediate prostration!

ROFL... What a wicked attempt at translation!

Are you truly that obtuse? THAT is the purpose of the recording of the event!

God's name is "I AM!" Note how the author even capitalizes "Am"!

 

[2ducklow]

Ah yes I see the bold font, but it only says "I TOLD YOU" what did he tell them? Where specifically does is Jesus recorded saying to the Jews, I am the Christ? I TOLD YOU only means he already answered the question. Where is it recorded that in his words he said to the Jews directly, I AM CHRIST as you assert?

I've never read that statement.

Jesus forbad even his disciples to say that he was the Christ, thus jesus didn't say it directly, cause the Jews were out to get him.

Matthew 16:20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

THe Jews ask Jesus to tell them plainly if he is the Christ.

Jesus response with "I told you. and you didn't belive".

it couldn't be clearer. I. It's as obvious as day that Jesus is telling them that he is the Christ. But believe what you want, that's how i see it.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

Ah yes I see the bold font, but it only says "I TOLD YOU" what did he tell them? Where specifically does is Jesus recorded saying to the Jews, I am the Christ? I TOLD YOU only means he already answered the question. Where is it recorded that in his words he said to the Jews directly, I AM CHRIST as you assert?

I've never read that statement.

Jhn 10:30 I and [my] Father are one. Jhn 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jhn 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? Jhn 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

Jesus forbad even his disciples to say that he was the Christ, thus jesus didn't say it directly, cause the Jews were out to get him.

Matthew 16:20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

THe Jews ask Jesus to tell them plainly if he is the Christ.

Jesus response with "I told you. and you didn't belive".

it couldn't be clearer. I. It's as obvious as day that Jesus is telling them that he is the Christ. But believe what you want, that's how i see it.

Your assertion is they sought to stone him because he said he was Christ yet scripture records they sought to kill him because he said he was God:

Jhn 10:30 I and [my] Father are one. Jhn 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jhn 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? Jhn 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

The scriptures do that all by themselves. That is why different people can have different interpretations of its meaning. ALL the scriptures EXCEPT those that don't agree with the trinity doctrine. I happen to believe in the trinity, but that is not the point. It is not a Biblical doctrine and you can not find it there. It was developed by the early church NOT based on scripture.

If you have no contradictions in your Bible, you must have torn out about half the pages.

No contradictions in principle.

 

[2ducklow]

Your assertion is they sought to stone him because he said he was Christ yet scripture records they sought to kill him because he said he was God:

Jhn 10:30 I and [my] Father are one. Jhn 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jhn 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? Jhn 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

They tried to stone him for 2 things blasphemy (any man claiming to be the Christ was commiting blasphemy and his last statement they took as you do to mean that he is God, only difference is you like it they didnt. . but

they accused him of claiming to be Christ at his trial and no one accused him of claiming to be YHWH. So I imagine it was just the heat of the moment they was all hot around the collar and took I and my father are one to mean he was God but clearer heads latter on knew that wasn't the meaning of it. First of all the jews didn't think God was his Father so Jesus saying I and my Father are one wouldn't be proof to them that he was equal with or that he was God.

Mark 14:61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and saith unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?

they ask him if he is the christ, jesus replys I am (the christ) and they call it blasphemy, just like in john 10.33


Mark 14:62-64 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven. And the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What further need have we of witnesses? Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be worthy of death.


They didn't take I am spoken by Jesus to mean he was God at his trial, they took it to mean that he was the Christ.

 

[KCDAD]

The flesh is dead... it will not continue the spirit lives on in fellowship with God, or separate from God, forever.

The flesh is dead? What are you talking about? My flesh is alive and so is yours.

 

[KCDAD]

OK, now that is really stretching it! I am now? So the Jews were trying to stone him for saying "before Abraham "I am now" ???? That is adding to the text. In addition it would not have offended the Jews.

Are you just playing games?

He equated himself with Abraham... not God.

 

[KCDAD]

Are you truly that obtuse? THAT is the purpose of the recording of the event!

God's name is "I AM!" Note how the author even capitalizes "Am"!

There is no capitalization in the Greek text.

 

[KCDAD]

No contradictions in principle.

... in principle.... uh huh

so a text that says God tempts man and another that says God tempts no man... that is not a contradiction in principle... or God creates evil and God doesn't create evil... no principle involved there, either?

 

[JWNEWMAN]

The flesh is dead? What are you talking about? My flesh is alive and so is yours.

Your flesh is dead, in respect to eternity.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

He equated himself with Abraham... not God.

That is not how the Jews, who, he was speaking to saw it. I would have to think they were privy to the intent of his declaration. At least more so then we, more then 2000 years later.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

They tried to stone him for 2 things blasphemy (any man claiming to be the Christ was commiting blasphemy and his last statement they took as you do to mean that he is God, only difference is you like it they didnt. . but

they accused him of claiming to be Christ at his trial and no one accused him of claiming to be YHWH. So I imagine it was just the heat of the moment they was all hot around the collar and took I and my father are one to mean he was God but clearer heads latter on knew that wasn't the meaning of it. First of all the jews didn't think God was his Father so Jesus saying I and my Father are one wouldn't be proof to them that he was equal with or that he was God.

Mark 14:61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and saith unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?

they ask him if he is the christ, jesus replys I am (the christ) and they call it blasphemy, just like in john 10.33


Mark 14:62-64 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven. And the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What further need have we of witnesses? Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be worthy of death.


They didn't take I am spoken by Jesus to mean he was God at his trial, they took it to mean that he was the Christ.

"So I imagine...." Yeah, I see that theme running through all the illogic of your theories, lots of imagination and rearranging of things to make your illogical, upside down, ludicrous theology make some sort of twisted sense.

Just playing your game, is it fun?

 

[PeacaHeaven]

He equated himself with Abraham... not God.

Jesus is God. Amen

 

[JWNEWMAN]

2ducklow,

In all seriousness, I don't see it the way you see it. And I'm done with the logic bit now I'm not playing fair. My apologies.

I see what you are saying and I will take it into consideration. I think I'm getting a better feel for where you are coming from. Forgive me for "playing the game" I didn't enjoy it... in fact it made me feel stressed.

I think your position has a certain logic. However, I feel the same about the Trinity which is the one I choose to believe. You're passionate about your faith. I respect that, and for the most part on this second go round you've been civil while I've played the bad guy. Thank you!

All I was trying to point out is that we shouldn't attack one another because we don't see eye to eye on issues. It's easy to be insulting. It's much harder to follow the law of love and in everything seek to edify one another.

I'm still floundering at learning this lesson. I think it is more important to show respect and love then to prove a point. Because, I believe we can be wrong on issues and still be in God's favor if we walk in Love. Love covers a multitude of sins.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

... in principle.... uh huh

so a text that says God tempts man and another that says God tempts no man... that is not a contradiction in principle... or God creates evil and God doesn't create evil... no principle involved there, either?

You have to consider the whole when addressing any one part. If all you see is an ear you will say the body is an ear, because you haven't seen the whole picture.

 

[PeacaHeaven]

Jhn 10:30 I and [my] Father are one. Jhn 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jhn 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? Jhn 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

I'm sorry I'm having a problem with quoting tonight, I marked the wrong one. this is to 2ducklow or KCDAD.

Could you please show me where Jesus clears up their misunderstanding? Can you please show me where he denies that He was claiming He was God? Wouldn't he need to tell them they misunderstood what He was saying so he didn't confuse them?
Mark 2:5
And Jesus seeing their faith said to the paralytic, " Son, your sins are forgiven."
6But some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts,
7 "Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?"