Women pastors: THE POLL TO END ALL POLLS

Is it okay for a woman to be a pastor?

  • Yes, it is okay for a woman to be a pastor

  • No, it is NOT okay for a woman to be a pastor


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Bluelion

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Never you did or didn't.

But...just a cursory reading in Timothy and Jude, the qualifications as given to Paul by the Holy Spirit clearly, clearly set the qualifications as being for men.

Those aren't my words but Paul's under the divine influence of God.



Never said that, have I?

In the military, there are women Generals. Do they not carry authority?

There are women who sit in authority in the United States courts. Are they in a position of authority?



First off, this is about what the scriptures say.

And what do they say?

"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." -1 Tim. 2:12 (KJV)

Secondly, this is about what scriptures say and not my opinion or what my of what I think they say.



I realize we do not live 150 years ago. Or for that matter, 5000 years ago when in the context of the Torah, there were rules given by God on the treatment of slaves.

It is, however, about what the scriptures say. Have you read the NT book of Philemon? What did Paul say to the runaway slave?

And again, this is not 5000, or even 2000 years ago.

But this ain't about slaves, its about women taking the position of authority in the church as the "undershepherd".

And that, is according to scripture, a man. Plain and simple.



Good for you brother. I have no doubt you'll do good in your calling and wish you nothing, nothing but the best. It may suprise you that I have been studying for over 40 years, and even I admit I don't have it all "down pat". But I do on this matter. I wasn't ordained and licensed because I was smarter than others, but because I was more mature in the word than most in my congregation.



I'm not on a "high horse". What I am on though, is the following of scriptures even though it does not mesh with the moderate/liberal viewpoints of today.

I've been called a lot of things here, some things, most would get warnings for. But one thing can be said of me, I do not teach or preach contrary to scriptures.

And as far as scriptures are concerned, this is a closed matter.

Even Esther the Queen, had to seek permission from the king before she came into his presence.

I'm not saying you don't study my brother, but I am saying that if you have, then you have to agree with my position, for it is the position of scriptures.

Simply said.

God Bless

Till all are one.

dean few things you know full well usurp means to act in ones self interest.

I have an open mind and unlike most I would change my positions if I saw it was truth and I was wrong. My problem with you is you bring up bad arguments ester really? You know full well what kind of king he was beheading one of his own wives, he was not a righteous king by any manor, and further more ester undermined his authority and played him and God used her to save the Jews from destruction by becoming his wife and then pitting him against his own adviser who want to eliminate all the Jews. Is that the king you speak of?

You danced around the statement, if God in fact said women can hold no authority in church then they can not hold any in the world. If you preach two set of rules for Christians one inside the church and one with out you are the one preaching against God's word and you know that view is hypocritical.

For the record i didn't call you any name but refer to a positions i believe you are taking.

While not everyone needs to be formal training to preach God's word, I think it is a good idea that those in the church be formal trained, this has been the model with Paul and Paul said to be like him no? but more than that Jesus too studied a great deal in the synagogues. Of course the Holy Spirit does as He will and can speak through anyone, and God does you everyone including evil to teach His children.

Thank your for the encouragement, i really really appreciate it, not many people offer that when they hear the path you are on.

I do still think you misunderstand Paul, and it is true no matter how long you study God's word there is always more to learn. As I said in another thread it was a woman God used to build my faith and show me I am saved for ever and God would not take that away. I struggled for 30 years in fear God would reject me on day, I wondered when I sinned if this would be the one God said i don't want you any more. God set me free of my fear by way of a woman. I grew up in the baptist church, you know what i got, I lot of rejection and your going to hell. Most baptist preachers were good at telling me I was not saved, then we would go over the pray and they would pronounce me saved. As a result I was begging God to save me all my life, and not until this woman did I see I only have to ask once and have faith. I don't have to keep begging God for salvation. Now your in the church and you know teachers are judged harder, what do you think God is going to do to those men who caused His child to stumble for most his life? Maybe nothing because for God i want forgiveness for them, even though I wrestle with my heart which wants justice. But I love God, so for him, and its easy to love my self so also for me because I know I too will be forgiven.

I just think you misunderstand, can you show anything other than tim that would support your view, as I have pointed out Paul meant a woman to act on her own self interest.
 
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Bluelion

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"usurp authority" I mean Jesus doesn't even do that..
I sincerely doubt that say Deborah usurped anyones authority.
besides the scriptures says we are submit to each other ....
and as far as I can tell that means no one is to usurp anyone.

That is correct, it was meant for men as well as women but at that time it was a problem in the church with women, hence the women are mention. It is the same The Bible often speaks of men not to do this or that, does that mean its ok for women? No. what applies to a man applies to a woman also and woman and man. God has no favorites we are all equal.

Someone want to explain to me how a daughter of God is to submit to a son of God that the two are not equal? But some will say yes but different roles, as far as child baring yes, but both are humans, angels have different roles. Are we equal to an angel? are we not to submit to angels? We are both equal, above, and below the angels depending on the time and situation. As it is written do you not know you will sit in judgement of angels.

Don't get discourage sister The Holy Spirit speaks through who ever He will and woe to the person that does not submit to Him no matter who He is speaking through.
 
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NannaNae

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well I don;t want to be anyone pastor , head or whatever.. so Blue this is what I know for sure ..
Satan fell because he didn't want to serve man. or serve under a man.,
and Men don't want serve under woman. and Jews don't want to serve gentiles or woman and then gentiles don't want to serve Jews or anyone at all probably including Jesus . and all I can say is all goats go to waterless dry places where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. :(

in the mean time I don't want to be anyones pastor or anything like that.
but I do believe that all christians who have walked with their lord have a contribution to any conversation about His word and our walks . and we all have the right to take or leave those contributions.

but I still can't reconcile Paul's wording in that verse with Jesus life and most of the bible and prophesy about the future and all of Jesus's imagery . then if we consider a very high percentage of the prophets mentioned in the bible were women. and Paul would be saying they can't prophesy to anyone but a room of woman. that just doesn't make sense.



SO all I can say ladies if the last shall be first and first last.,.

All I can say is to the Ladies just serve with a song in your heart because I suspect there is a huge surprise in the next life when there will be no usurpers there in his kingdom and all woman will be safe to lead because no man will be too offended to serve or be served and no one will ever usurp any women there .

in the mean time I still believe his clear instruction are we are all to be inner submitted like brothers and sister and parts of a real body honoring each part and no part subjected to any other body parts. and to call no man father but him.

so Blue now everyone can take that or leave it :p
but your great Blue!!
 
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DeaconDean

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dean few things you know full well usurp means to act in ones self interest.

Merriam-Webster defines "usurp" as:

: to take and keep (something, such as power) in a forceful or violent way and especially without the right to do so

Source

My problem with you is you bring up bad arguments ester really? You know full well what kind of king he was beheading one of his own wives, he was not a righteous king by any manor, and further more ester undermined his authority and played him and God used her to save the Jews from destruction by becoming his wife and then pitting him against his own adviser who want to eliminate all the Jews. Is that the king you speak of?

Bad arguments?!? It's well within the scriptures.

And regardless of what he did, the argument still holds true. Before Esther could come into his presence, she had to ask permission. That did not change regaedless.

You danced around the statement, if God in fact said women can hold no authority in church then they can not hold any in the world.

Now you show me in scripture where women are not allowed to hold any position in the world from scripture.

If you preach two set of rules for Christians one inside the church and one with out you are the one preaching against God's word and you know that view is hypocritical.

So, you are calling me a "hypocrite"?

So, preaching and teaching what God's word says is hypocrisy?

For the record i didn't call you any name but refer to a positions i believe you are taking.

I never said you called me a "name", however, telling me to come down from my "horse", as you said, is the same.

While not everyone needs to be formal training to preach God's word, I think it is a good idea that those in the church be formal trained, this has been the model with Paul and Paul said to be like him no?

Agreed.

but more than that Jesus too studied a great deal in the synagogues. Of course the Holy Spirit does as He will and can speak through anyone, and God does you everyone including evil to teach His children.

I do not know of any scripture that tell me Jesus "studied" in the synagogue.

The author of the law, was teaching in the temple to the masters of the law at the ripe old age of 12.

Thank your for the encouragement, i really really appreciate it, not many people offer that when they hear the path you are on.

What path am I on brother?

I do still think you misunderstand Paul, and it is true no matter how long you study God's word there is always more to learn. As I said in another thread it was a woman God used to build my faith and show me I am saved for ever and God would not take that away. I struggled for 30 years in fear God would reject me on day, I wondered when I sinned if this would be the one God said i don't want you any more. God set me free of my fear by way of a woman. I grew up in the baptist church, you know what i got, I lot of rejection and your going to hell. Most baptist preachers were good at telling me I was not saved, then we would go over the pray and they would pronounce me saved. As a result I was begging God to save me all my life, and not until this woman did I see I only have to ask once and have faith. I don't have to keep begging God for salvation. Now your in the church and you know teachers are judged harder, what do you think God is going to do to those men who caused His child to stumble for most his life? Maybe nothing because for God i want forgiveness for them, even though I wrestle with my heart which wants justice. But I love God, so for him, and its easy to love my self so also for me because I know I too will be forgiven.

Misunderstand Paul, hum...

There are three areas that I have dedicated more time studying than any other.

1. Eschatology
2. The writings of Paul
3. The book of Isaiah

I have read it in the Greek. I have read and studied many commentaries. Word searches. Lexicons. You name it. And there is no way I have misunderstood what Paul said in Timothy regarding the qualifications for Bishops or Deacons. I have done the same in Jude where he was to appoint elders. There is no mistaking what the qualifications are.

Elders is tricky though. The "elders" who are appointed to oversee the affairs of the church are the same as bishops, men. "elders", the mature people of the church, however, can be anybody, man or woman, who are mature in the word.

I just think you misunderstand, can you show anything other than tim that would support your view, as I have pointed out Paul meant a woman to act on her own self interest.

I already have. See the qualifications as set out by the Apostle Paul in 1 Tim 3: 1-13; Titus 1:6-9

No matter what you think, you cannot get around:

"the husband of one wife"

Bishops, Elders, and Deacons, are held to this standard.

Had it read, the wife of one husband, I would agree with you. But since it don't, I must disagree with you.

Sorry brother, but I stand on what the scriptures say.

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church (1 Corinthians 14:34-35).

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression (1 Timothy 2:11-14).

This clear prohibition has been dismissed in many modern churches, such as the Christian Reformed Church and many others which have opted to disregard God's Word and ordain their women to the Gospel ministry. And yet, such women cannot even meet the most basic of qualifications for this office which God has set forth in His infallible Word. According to the Apostle Paul: "This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife...." (1 Timothy 3:1-2) This teaching is reinforced in Titus 1:5-6: "...[O]rdain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly." We see, in both passages in which the qualifications of a bishop or presbyter are listed, that the candidate must be "the husband of one wife." These offices are clearly open to men only since a woman obviously cannot fulfill this most basic qualification.

Many claim that these verses are cultural and are therefore not applicable to our society. However, to say such a thing is treading on ver dangerous doctrinal ground. Although there are indeed passages of Scripture that are bound to the culture of the ancient biblical people, and thus have ceased to be directly applicable to our own day, this is not to say that the underlying principles have also passed away. For example, at one time the ceremonial Law of Moses required that the Jews not wear clothing of mixed threads. This commandment obviously no longer applies to Christians under the New Covenant, but its underlying principle of segregation of unlike things clearly does. One example of this enduring principle is found in 2 Corinthians 6:14 where Christians are commanded not to be "unequally yoked with unbelievers."

However, the words of the Apostle Paul regarding the qualifications for Church office cannot be approached in this same manner. First of all, he was not writing under the Old Covenant, but was writing to Christians under the New Covenant. Therefore, the commandments which he gave cannot be relegated to the category of Old Testament shadows, but must be understood and obeyed as the very commandments of our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, speaking by His Spirit through one of His inspired Apostles.

Secondly, the external commandment cannot, in this case, be separated from its underlying principle, as was the case with the ceremonial laws. Paul's declaration that he would not "suffer a woman to teach or to usurp authority over a man" is directly tied in 1 Timothy 2:13-14 to both the creation order and the historic Fall of our first parents in the Garden of Eden. The subjection of women to male authority is well established throughout Scripture (Genesis 3:16; Ephesians5:22-24) and the serpent's beguiling of Eve obviously still effects us to this day. Therefore, we must conclude that the prohibition against women elders also remains applicable today.

Before attempting to apply the "cultural relevance" argument to any biblical teaching, we must be very careful to honestly evaluate what the Bible as a whole is saying on the subject. We must also carefully examine our own hearts to see if we havean attitude of rebellion against the revealed will of God in Scripture and are sinfully looking for a way to ignore its commands. Again, let us heed the words of the Apostle: "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works" (2 Timothy 3:16).

It is important to note that the Apostle declared that all Scripture "is profitable," not merely those isolated texts which may be employed to support our personal belief system. We cannot pick and choose when it comes to obedience to God's Word; it is an "all or nothing" affair.

It is tragic how a generation of professing Christians can be so blind to the clear teaching of Scripture, and would rather hearken to the liberal agenda of the modern feminist movement than adhere to God's clear commandments. The Bible is clear in its denunciation of such people as these: "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate" (Titus 1:16).

Source

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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Bluelion

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well I don;t want to be anyone pastor , head or whatever.. so Blue this is what I know for sure ..
Satan fell because he didn't want to serve man. or serve under a man.,
and Men don't want serve under woman. and Jews don't want to serve gentiles or woman and then gentiles don't want to serve Jews or anyone at all probably including Jesus . and all I can say is all goats go to waterless dry places where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. :(

in the mean time I don't want to be anyones pastor or anything like that.
but I do believe that all christians who have walked with their lord have a contribution to any conversation about His word and our walks . and we all have the right to take or leave those contributions.

but I still can't reconcile Paul's wording in that verse with Jesus life and most of the bible and prophesy about the future and all of Jesus's imagery . then if we consider a very high percentage of the prophets mentioned in the bible were women. and Paul would be saying they can't prophesy to anyone but a room of woman. that just doesn't make sense.



SO all I can say ladies if the last shall be first and first last.,.

All I can say is to the Ladies just serve with a song in your heart because I suspect there is a huge surprise in the next life when there will be no usurpers there in his kingdom and all woman will be safe to lead because no man will be too offended to serve or be served and no one will ever usurp any women there .

in the mean time I still believe his clear instruction are we are all to be inner submitted like brothers and sister and parts of a real body honoring each part and no part subjected to any other body parts. and to call no man father but him.

so Blue now everyone can take that or leave it :p
but your great Blue!!

:thumbsup:
 
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Bluelion

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Merriam-Webster defines "usurp" as:



Source



Bad arguments?!? It's well within the scriptures.

And regardless of what he did, the argument still holds true. Before Esther could come into his presence, she had to ask permission. That did not change regaedless.



Now you show me in scripture where women are not allowed to hold any position in the world from scripture.



So, you are calling me a "hypocrite"?

So, preaching and teaching what God's word says is hypocrisy?



I never said you called me a "name", however, telling me to come down from my "horse", as you said, is the same.



Agreed.



I do not know of any scripture that tell me Jesus "studied" in the synagogue.

The author of the law, was teaching in the temple to the masters of the law at the ripe old age of 12.



What path am I on brother?



Misunderstand Paul, hum...

There are three areas that I have dedicated more time studying than any other.

1. Eschatology
2. The writings of Paul
3. The book of Isaiah

I have read it in the Greek. I have read and studied many commentaries. Word searches. Lexicons. You name it. And there is no way I have misunderstood what Paul said in Timothy regarding the qualifications for Bishops or Deacons. I have done the same in Jude where he was to appoint elders. There is no mistaking what the qualifications are.

Elders is tricky though. The "elders" who are appointed to oversee the affairs of the church are the same as bishops, men. "elders", the mature people of the church, however, can be anybody, man or woman, who are mature in the word.



I already have. See the qualifications as set out by the Apostle Paul in 1 Tim 3: 1-13; Titus 1:6-9

No matter what you think, you cannot get around:

"the husband of one wife"

Bishops, Elders, and Deacons, are held to this standard.

Had it read, the wife of one husband, I would agree with you. But since it don't, I must disagree with you.

Sorry brother, but I stand on what the scriptures say.



Source

God Bless

Till all are one.

Yeah I am going by the strongs usurp, words change in meaning over time.

You can not claim a righteous act from an unrighteous king, that is how your argument is bad. You are using an unrighteous king as a model for women submitting to men. Maybe you have not read the story because ester dressed up and went to her husband with out permission and asked if he would have lunch with her and her husband was very pleased and very happy to see her even though she was not announced.


No I did not call you a hypocrite as I plainly said the view of two set of rules is though. I don't see how you can say there are two set of rules for Christian one in the church and one out and then still claim to preach God's word. God says not to be concerned with worldly things. So is it ok to sin also as long as i am in the world not in church? If God said women can not have authority over men he meant just that there are not two sets of rules but you don't even see how that view is wrong. And that is the view the Jews had so long ago and why Paul said gentiles curse God because of you. They had two sets of rules.
and when i said path you are on i meant me, the path of minister most people do not encourage you when they here you are going into that.

I think that will conclude are debate. You don't see how you error any where nor will you be moved, your mind is closed and that is fine.
 
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twin1954

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Yeah I am going by the strongs usurp, words change in meaning over time.

You can not claim a righteous act from an unrighteous king, that is how your argument is bad. You are using an unrighteous king as a model for women submitting to men. Maybe you have not read the story because ester dressed up and went to her husband with out permission and asked if he would have lunch with her and her husband was very pleased and very happy to see her even though she was not announced.


No I did not call you a hypocrite as I plainly said the view of two set of rules is though. I don't see how you can say there are two set of rules for Christian one in the church and one out and then still claim to preach God's word. God says not to be concerned with worldly things. So is it ok to sin also as long as i am in the world not in church? If God said women can not have authority over men he meant just that there are not two sets of rules but you don't even see how that view is wrong. And that is the view the Jews had so long ago and why Paul said gentiles curse God because of you. They had two sets of rules.
and when i said path you are on i meant me, the path of minister most people do not encourage you when they here you are going into that.

I think that will conclude are debate. You don't see how you error any where nor will you be moved, your mind is closed and that is fine.
How absurd! His argument has nothing to do with whether the king was righteous or unrighteous. Learn to actually read and understand arguments before you seek to debate.
 
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Bluelion

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How absurd! His argument has nothing to do with whether the king was righteous or unrighteous. Learn to actually read and understand arguments before you seek to debate.

my post was not addressed to you maybe you should learn to let two people talk.

another fallacy.
ad hominem: Latin for "to the man." An arguer who uses ad hominems attacks the person instead of the argument. Whenever an arguer cannot defend his position with evidence, facts or reason, he or she may resort to attacking an opponent either through: labeling, straw man arguments, name calling, offensive remarks and anger.

do you have any valid arguments or are they all fallacies?
 
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twin1954

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my post was not addressed to you maybe you should learn to let two people talk.

another fallacy.
ad hominem: Latin for "to the man." An arguer who uses ad hominems attacks the person instead of the argument. Whenever an arguer cannot defend his position with evidence, facts or reason, he or she may resort to attacking an opponent either through: labeling, straw man arguments, name calling, offensive remarks and anger.

do you have any valid arguments or are they all fallacies?
This is a public forum and I can comment in any thread I desire to. When did you become the forum police?

I committed no such fallacy but only pointed out your inability to actually address his argument. Your inability is certainly shown by the fact the you are committing the red herring fallacy by continuing to claim the ad hominem fallacy. If you could actually deal with what I said you would.
 
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Bluelion

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This is a public forum and I can comment in any thread I desire to. When did you become the forum police?

I committed no such fallacy but only pointed out your inability to actually address his argument. Your inability is certainly shown by the fact the you are committing the red herring fallacy by continuing to claim the ad hominem fallacy. If you could actually deal with what I said you would.

oh that's creative saying I am creating a fallacy by pointed out yours. forum police I have no idea what you are talking about. Fact is I was debating with dean you are not a part of that debate. You don't just jump in the middle of two people debating it is rude if nothing else. I am not going to debate my post to dean and deal with issues between us to you. It would seem you are trying to play forum police here, like everyone answers to you right?
 
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DeaconDean

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How absurd! His argument has nothing to do with whether the king was righteous or unrighteous. Learn to actually read and understand arguments before you seek to debate.

Talk about a closed mind?!?

And it really don't matter what he says, I am right on scriptures.

And the scriptures are crystal clear.

Bishops, Elders, and Deacons, are to be "the husband of one wife".

He cannot wiggle, or take the round-about on that.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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twin1954

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Talk about a closed mind?!?

And it really don't matter what he says, I am right on scriptures.

And the scriptures are crystal clear.

Bishops, Elders, and Deacons, are to be "the husband of one wife".

He cannot wiggle, or take the round-about on that.

God Bless

Till all are one.
:thumbsup:
 
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Avid

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Merriam-Webster defines "usurp" as:
: to take and keep (something, such as power) in a forceful or violent way and especially without the right to do so
This is the way I understand it to be, and the way I always saw the scriptures to mean it.

Jacob was the first one I deeply considered as this word was used with him. It was the way that he took the birthright that was given to him that got him the reputation. That this was in his self interest is not argued. That is not what got him the reputation, though, was it?

I cant tell you how many times I woke with the alarm, went to work, and then collected pay for the job I did in my own self interest. Did not USURP that from anyone!!!
 
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DeaconDean

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This is the way I understand it to be, and the way I always saw the scriptures to mean it.

Jacob was the first one I deeply considered as this word was used with him. It was the way that he took the birthright that was given to him that got him the reputation. That this was in his self interest is not argued. That is not what got him the reputation, though, was it?

I cant tell you how many times I woke with the alarm, went to work, and then collected pay for the job I did in my own self interest. Did not USURP that from anyone!!!

"usurp"- Greek=αὐθεντέω; Strongs number 831:

"1) one who with his own hands kills another or himself 2) one who acts on his own authority, autocratic 3) an absolute master 4) to govern, exercise dominion over one "

Source

The bolded section above is what is relavent in 1 Tim 2:12.

"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. "

Woman, is not to govern over, or exercise dominion, or authority over man.

That is not God's plan, nor was it His design.

And it was not, and is not, His plan for the church.

:sigh:

God Bless

TIll all are one.
 
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mikedsjr

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Unfortunately I'm not keen on the wording of the poll for either side so ill keep myself from this thread. Personally I think this topic should be broken down to threads dealing with specific text in each one and be bound to discuss that text only. "Can women be pastor: Phoebe edition", "Can women be pastor: 1 Peter edition", etc. For me, I don't like it when people willing to bounce around from verse to verse as if the Bible is a game of chess. People have called me traditionalist, pragmatist, etc. And I'm unconcerned what people call me. I'm concerned about Scripture and hearing opposing arguments that might sway me because I missed something in Scripture. I don't mind hearing "this region had this issue" because it might be true. There is nothing wrong with getting background of the region. But Scripture has been quite direct and its my position you don't take Scripture that's vague to create theology. And if you can't accept that from me, then will be a permanent empasse and I certain would never expect or paths to meet in a church, because we have different worldviews but doesn't mean we aren't kinsman. But that's a different theological discussion too. Enough rabbit chasing from me
 
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JM

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I believe this thread takes us back to the Regulative Principle once again. The church, the Body of Christ, must rely on scripture alone for instruction on how we are to worship God. God has ordained men for the position of Elder. The scriptures are clear on this fact.
 
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DeaconDean

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I have been somewhat accused of hypocrisy.

Preaching a "double standard".

Let's take one example.

One person, a man, enters the military. He is private.

One person enters the military, a woman straight out of college. She's a 2nd lieutenant, made an officer.

Both joined at the same time, yet she is a higher rank.

They meet.

Should he, or should he not, show her the respect that is due her rank?

If he's smart, he will.

A woman works in a bank. Starts out as a teller. After many, many years of hard wrok, she is moved up the ladder. Perhaps even achieving CEO.

Should they, or should they not (employees of the bank) show her the respect that due her from not only her position, but from her years of hard work?

If they want to keep their jobs they will.

This is not hypocrisy, this is not a double standard. This is a fact of life.

Yet the scriptures are not hypocrisy, and they are not a "double standard".

I have never been the type who advocated for women being regulated to a lower class than men. If a woman can come to work and do the same work as I, then I believe they should have equal pay.

The Pastorate, Eldership, and Deaconate, are not the military. They are not the working world.

Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians that the foot should not complain that it wasn't the hand. But that each part had its place in the body.

Women do play a part in the church, just not in any of the above positions.

Those were God's rules, not mine.

But yet today, even in these threads, people don't want to follow God's rules.

We must interprete them in light of today.

Seems to me I remember reading somewhere where God said He don't change, therefore, the scriptures being His words, they don't change either.

If no women were allowed to serve as priests in the temple, why should we circumvent that same rule today?

But there are those who wish it so.

I am reminded of what the actor who played Balthezar said in the movie Ben-Hur:

I have lived too long.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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