Women pastors: THE POLL TO END ALL POLLS

[98cwitr]

With all the talk and debate over women being pastors I figured a poll would be the most appropriate to get a bird's eye view on the Baptist opinion. Please limit discussions and simply vote. In context, pastor is defined as an authoritative position within the church that is in charge of ministering to the congregation.

 

[th1bill]

No!

 

[98cwitr]

No!

Please simply vote and limit your commentary unless you find it necessary Thanks!

 

[com7fy8]

neither

necessary >

1 Timothy 3:1-10 shows the man needs to become "blameless" and proven in his own home first, to see if he should be trusted to "take care of the church of God". His lady helps him get real in God's love which makes him "blameless", and she helps him learn how to relate in marriage and learn how to take care of people in our Father's family caring and sharing way < he learns this with his own family, first; then he can, with his wife's help, "take care of the church of God".

So, it is essential that he has his lady to help him pastor.

 

[1watchman]

Here is a "necessary" comment, as you said: The only valid poll should be the Word of God, and it tells us that the woman must be silent in the Church, and in submission as a type of Christ unto His Father. One can study all sound teachings by Bible scholars on that.

This is not saying she cannot be a bright and faithful testimony, but not to be teaching by speaking during assembly meetings. She is often a great help in her demeanor and private words of encouragement to many. One should not be trying to second-guess God. I am sure that this will not be "a poll to end all polls"..

 

[DeaconDean]

No!

Per scripture, it most definitely does not say the "wife of one husband".

Man let a woman led him one time and it cost us paradise.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Basil the Great]

Sorry, but I voted "yes" before I read that you just wanted Baptist opinion. Hence, you can remove the 4th "yes" vote, if you can figure out how to do such.

 

[Bluelion]

No!

Per scripture, it most definitely does not say the "wife of one husband".

Man let a woman led him one time and it cost us paradise.

God Bless

Till all are one.

*Muzzle on the big cat* How about Adam was not man enough to be a leader for the woman, man new full well it was a sin and what would happen. He chose his wife over God. I heard a preacher say this. That Adam may have become a Christ like figure for the woman had he said no. and what did Adam do same thing you just did he blame the woman instead of manning up and saying God I did it I new it was wrong I was afraid and so I did it. Truth, sure man would have been punished, But God would have smiled and turn to satan and said, I made him. sure as God told job satan is accusing you be for Me give Me something to say back. We are to give God something to say back.

Here is a thought maybe men are not leading so women are needed to lead. Pride of men, "we will not be led by a woman"

very disappoint dean very.

Even in imperfection God's creation and plan is perfect, man with his weakness did what God saw. This is why we are never lost once saved. We trust in the Lord. God can see everything that will happen He has already worked it out so we are saved when we come to Him. When we ask Him He does everything necessary to ensure we are saved from that point and will be in Heaven, all that is left it to let the race play out. Jesus already ran it for us, all that is left is for us to meet him at the finish line.

No need to blame any one that is the sinful nature"love keeps no records of wrongs", God is ahead of us and will save us if we just ask, because while Adam chose woman over God, God did not give up "Love never gives up".

Just love with all you are, love and Heaven will come to earth.
1cor 13.
4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5 or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. 6 It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.

 

[abacabb3]

Sure a woman can be a Pastor. Where in the Scripture does it say a woman should be a pastor?

 

[98cwitr]

Sorry, but I voted "yes" before I read that you just wanted Baptist opinion. Hence, you can remove the 4th "yes" vote, if you can figure out how to do such.

A vote is a vote...let them stand as they are. Keep the votes coming! 115 views and only 12 votes...tisk tisk!

 

[preacher4truth]

No!

 

[DeaconDean]

*Muzzle on the big cat* How about Adam was not man enough to be a leader for the woman, man new full well it was a sin and what would happen. He chose his wife over God.

very disappoint dean very.

Talk about disappointment.

Here is where you and I differ.

I research, I study.

In reading "The Soverignty of God", by Arthur Pink, there is a section on "The Soverignty of God and Human Will".

In it, he discusses the vast differences between the first Adam and the second.

The first Adam, was born in a state of "moral equipoise" meaning, that he was able to be persuaded towards evil.

Whereas the second Adam, was not.

There is only one passage of scripture where a man was told to do as the woman said. When asked what he was to do concerning Haggar, God told Abraham that he was to do as Sarah said.

That is the only instance in scripture of such event.

Scriptures, even among Baptist groups who don't otherwise agree on some doctrines, have been the focal point in our history. Even among Northern and Southern Baptists where opinions often run the gambit, we agree on this point.

It is only when the liberals and moderates opinionate that the debate ensues.

Regardless of what you say or think about me, I stand on scriptures and scriptures back me up.

Leadership in the church, as defined by the scriptures, does not include women.

Cry, whine, complain, all you want. But that is a fact.

Pastors, the spiritual leaders of the flock, the "undershepherds" are not and were not meant for women.

And that my friend, is scriptural.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Bluelion]

Talk about disappointment.

Here is where you and I differ.

I research, I study.

In reading "The Soverignty of God", by Arthur Pink, there is a section on "The Soverignty of God and Human Will".

In it, he discusses the vast differences between the first Adam and the second.

The first Adam, was born in a state of "moral equipoise" meaning, that he was able to be persuaded towards evil.

Whereas the second Adam, was not.

There is only one passage of scripture where a man was told to do as the woman said. When asked what he was to do concerning Haggar, God told Abraham that he was to do as Sarah said.

That is the only instance in scripture of such event.

Scriptures, even among Baptist groups who don't otherwise agree on some doctrines, have been the focal point in our history. Even among Northern and Southern Baptists where opinions often run the gambit, we agree on this point.

It is only when the liberals and moderates opinionate that the debate ensues.

Regardless of what you say or think about me, I stand on scriptures and scriptures back me up.

Leadership in the church, as defined by the scriptures, does not include women.

Cry, whine, complain, all you want. But that is a fact.

Pastors, the spiritual leaders of the flock, the "undershepherds" are not and were not meant for women.

And that my friend, is scriptural.

God Bless

Till all are one.

are suggesting I don't study or research?

So you think a woman can never have authority over a man right? Or are we going to play splinter and log here? after all if a woman can not have authority over a man in the church then out side the Church either. There are not two sets of rules.

Your view is no different than the south using Paul to Justify slavery because Paul said slaves obeys you master.

It might surprise you dean but I study hard just about every day and will be ordained one day, so maybe come down off you horse.

 

[NannaNae]

well this is a trick question.
the model of the churches is flawed and by it I don't think 99.999999 % of men should be 'pastors' like they are now 'pastors'.
there is now no body in the body and NO woman should be pastors like that either..

but making such laws which limit God when in fact the men lifted themselves up on that pedestal/ tower/ of babel.. instead of submitting themselves one to another as brothers and sisters like should have been .

wow how do you get it right now?
and then how do we demand God do it this way or that way? when no one has really ever has done it the way we were told to in the first place . Not when the model of the churches is Catholicism and with it priests lifted high and falling harder
not shepherds..

when in fact in REV he is clearly gaining his authority to Rule by a woman. not a man on pulpit .

wow .. I think it is a trick question.

 

[Bluelion]

well this is a trick question.
the model of the churches is flawed and by it I don't think 99.999999 % of men should be 'pastors' like they are now 'pastors'.
there is now no body in the body and NO woman should be pastors like that either..

but making such laws which limit God when in fact the men lifted themselves up on that pedestal/ tower/ of babel.. instead of submitting themselves one to another as brothers and sisters like should have been .

wow how do you get it right now?
and then how do we demand God do it this way or that way? when no one has really ever has done it the way we were told to in the first place . Not when the model of the churches is Catholicism and with it priests lifted high and falling harder
not shepherds..

when in fact in REV he is clearly gaining his authority to Rule by a woman. not a man on pulpit .

wow .. I think it is a trick question.

who gains authority to rule by a woman in rev? the beast? if that is what your saying i don't know that is true. The harlot of Babylon is not an actual woman but a city. Personally i am convinced the false prophet is one of the popes that supports the beast.

 

[NannaNae]

that isn't the only woman in REV..

I saw a woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet ... yes that woman and all the woman she represents !
that is a picture of Him getting even his life and the authority to rule through those women ( and maybe even men but we are not talking about men now) that she represents.
might I suggest that he has a different opinion of women as a whole and in all the new testament than is presented in some of these arguments posted here.
I think Jesus actually liked the ladies in his life and in history. maybe?
yes we might get deceived but Adam he did it knowing he was disobeying and did it willingly..

so ??????? maybe we all need each other to keep us all on the strait and narrow...

 

[Bluelion]

that isn't the only woman in REV..

I saw a woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet ... yes that woman and all the woman she represents !
that is a picture of Him getting even his life and the authority to rule through those women ( and maybe even men but we are not talking about men now) that she represents.
might I suggest that he has a different opinion of women as a whole and in all the new testament than is presented in some of these arguments posted here.
I think Jesus actually liked the ladies in his life and in history. maybe?
yes we might get deceived but Adam he did it knowing he was disobeying and did it willingly..

so ??????? maybe we all need each other to keep us all on the strait and narrow...

yeah that woman is a metaphor and could point to a government with a woman at the head, or a nation. more than likely it is a nation.

I think people have it wrong about women in the church, there are good and bad women and men. A woman does not have the curse any more having been saved by Christ her desire to rule over man is no longer a factor having been put to death with Christ on the cross.

I think you are right we all need to look out for each other.

It was a friend of mine a woman who God spoke through to me that set me free. I use to think a person could loses salvation and i was always in free of going to hell. My friend showed me once your saved your saved. It was a woman who God used to restore my faith and free me. If I had believed a woman could not teach me, I would never have received God's message. SO I know in my heart women can teach and be good teachers.

 

[1watchman]

Yes, when the man has failed, God did speak through a woman ---and that in reprimand to the man. God is not putting women down by giving His principle work to a man, but that the woman is given as a "help" who is meet (suited) to ASSIST the man. He is God's spokesman on earth, as ALL Scripture shows (if we are "rightly dividing the Word of Truth").

It is shameful that professing Christians reject God's Word to follow their own reasonings.

 

[NannaNae]

well the pharisee and sadducee were an organization of men creating consensuses.. just not much has changed in all these years..
not when the picture of Jesus life and of even his imagery is of something very different.
Jesus even as jehovah has alwasy sought people to bring balances..
and man people fight it all the way.

it is still a trick question.

 

[DeaconDean]

are suggesting I don't study or research?

Never you did or didn't.

But...just a cursory reading in Timothy and Jude, the qualifications as given to Paul by the Holy Spirit clearly, clearly set the qualifications as being for men.

Those aren't my words but Paul's under the divine influence of God.

So you think a woman can never have authority over a man right?

Never said that, have I?

In the military, there are women Generals. Do they not carry authority?

There are women who sit in authority in the United States courts. Are they in a position of authority?

Or are we going to play splinter and log here? after all if a woman can not have authority over a man in the church then out side the Church either. There are not two sets of rules.

First off, this is about what the scriptures say.

And what do they say?

"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." -1 Tim. 2:12 (KJV)

Secondly, this is about what scriptures say and not my opinion or what my of what I think they say.

Your view is no different than the south using Paul to Justify slavery because Paul said slaves obeys you master.

I realize we do not live 150 years ago. Or for that matter, 5000 years ago when in the context of the Torah, there were rules given by God on the treatment of slaves.

It is, however, about what the scriptures say. Have you read the NT book of Philemon? What did Paul say to the runaway slave?

And again, this is not 5000, or even 2000 years ago.

But this ain't about slaves, its about women taking the position of authority in the church as the "undershepherd".

And that, is according to scripture, a man. Plain and simple.

It might surprise you dean but I study hard just about every day and will be ordained one day,

Good for you brother. I have no doubt you'll do good in your calling and wish you nothing, nothing but the best. It may suprise you that I have been studying for over 40 years, and even I admit I don't have it all "down pat". But I do on this matter. I wasn't ordained and licensed because I was smarter than others, but because I was more mature in the word than most in my congregation.

so maybe come down off you horse.

I'm not on a "high horse". What I am on though, is the following of scriptures even though it does not mesh with the moderate/liberal viewpoints of today.

I've been called a lot of things here, some things, most would get warnings for. But one thing can be said of me, I do not teach or preach contrary to scriptures.

And as far as scriptures are concerned, this is a closed matter.

Even Esther the Queen, had to seek permission from the king before she came into his presence.

I'm not saying you don't study my brother, but I am saying that if you have, then you have to agree with my position, for it is the position of scriptures.

Simply said.

God Bless

Till all are one.