Women are desperate for Zika abortions

[Julie.S]

I am about at pro-life as one can get, but I also try to be pragmatic. This is a tough case. I understand the motivation here and I can't blame them for their concern either.

I also do not like abortion but thinking of how those people are suffering right now and thinking of the life the child may have puts me on the fence.

 

[Julie.S]

The baby might be hurt - better kill the baby!
They don't deserve to be mothers.

Now hold on a second. You are of course allowed to have an opinion I would never take that way but saying they don't deserve to be mothers is a bit extreme to me.

How would it feel to be diagnosed with something while being pregnant and then finding out it will have ill effects on the child?
I am not trying to be rude.

 

[redleghunter]

How would it feel to be diagnosed with something while being pregnant and then finding out it will have ill effects on the child?
I am not trying to be rude.

It seems we always err on the side of the weakest opinion of women. Women with cancer forego chemotherapy to bring their child to term.

Women who are told their children will be deformed at a sonogram smile pat their stomach and say "I love you."

Why don't we mention those women now and then?

 

[Nithavela]

Women who choose an abortion should not become mothers.

 

[Julie.S]

It seems we always err on the side of the weakest opinion of women. Women with cancer forego chemotherapy to bring their child to term.

Women who are told their children will be deformed at a sonogram smile pat their stomach and say "I love you."

Why don't we mention those women now and then?

You do know there are disabilities that are not detectable by looking at a person correct?
I am Dyslexic and have ADD. You would never know that by looking at me but give me a math or writing test and you will know. If people could tell others like me had this at birth we might not be here either. I know what its like going through life with something like this. I know parents who have children with special needs also and I went to school with kids who had them also or similar.

I do not condone killing a special needs child just because they are like that but I know how hard that kids life could possibly be. In a third world country or one where money is hard to find and you have to take care of that kid I think the situation may change a little.

My parents saved up a college fund for me and by the time I was in College it was gone already mostly because I had to go to a school that could teach kids like me. Its not cheap and it was hard for my parents to afford it at times but they did it and I thank them for that.

Now they can put the child up for adoption of course that's always a wonderful alternative. I am also adopted myself and some people do not want to adopt a special needs child due to them having said problems or knowing they can not afford it possibly. Adoption is also not always an easy thing to go through for both the parents and the child.

I am speaking from experience and hearing stories from people. I am not condoning abortion or the killing of disabled children.
I hope I have not been rude at all here its the last thing I want to be.

 

[redleghunter]

You do know there are disabilities that are not detectable by looking at a person correct?
I am Dyslexic and have ADD. You would never know that by looking at me but give me a math or writing test and you will know. If people could tell others like me had this at birth we might not be here either. I know what its like going through life with something like this. I know parents who have children with special needs also and I went to school with kids who had them also or similar.

I do not condone killing a special needs child just because they are like that but I know how hard that kids life could possibly be. In a third world country or one where money is hard to find and you have to take care of that kid I think the situation may change a little.

My parents saved up a college fund for me and by the time I was in College it was gone already mostly because I had to go to a school that could teach kids like me. Its not cheap and it was hard for my parents to afford it at times but they did it and I thank them for that.

Now they can put the child up for adoption of course that's always a wonderful alternative. I am also adopted myself and some people do not want to adopt a special needs child due to them having said problems or knowing they can not afford it possibly. Adoption is also not always an easy thing to go through for both the parents and the child.

I am speaking from experience and hearing stories from people. I am not condoning abortion or the killing of disabled children.
I hope I have not been rude at all here its the last thing I want to be.

Thank you very much for sharing. Yes it can be tough. I have an 11 year old son who has the exact same challenges you face. He is Dyslexic (which was not diagnosed until last year) and ADD. He was also born with a clubbed foot. That set the gynecologist in full swing to tell us our son was Downs and if we wanted to abort let her know. Of course this news saddened us but we were already decided to love and raise the child God blessed us with. He was born healthy and strong, and yes struggles with some math and reading but some math and reading he excels at too.

Perhaps we should apply the philosophy of Forrest Gump's mother when she said 'life is a box of chocolates...you never know what you are going to get."

 

[Sketcher]

Now hold on a second. You are of course allowed to have an opinion I would never take that way but saying they don't deserve to be mothers is a bit extreme to me.

How would it feel to be diagnosed with something while being pregnant and then finding out it will have ill effects on the child?
I am not trying to be rude.

It would probably feel awful and frightening. To unpack what I said a bit more:

Should a mother kill a child who might be hurt? Should anyone with a child in their care?

It's not loving the child to do that. And if one claims to love a child, it's not smart either. Every child deserves a mother who will do anything to save his/her life. Every child deserves a mother with enough sense to make decent decisions regarding his/her care. Among other things, of course. This is why, when a mother abuses or neglects a child, she can lose custody of that child and possibly face prison time, and rightly so. Sometimes its because they are unloving, sometimes it's because they're incompetent, but the bottom line is she cannot or will not put the child's needs first and the child is harmed because of that. I'm not talking about mistakes that anyone could make, I'm talking about egregious stuff that makes the news. Those kinds of women have shown by their abuse or their neglect that they don't deserve to be mothers. How much more then, a woman who would kill a baby because the baby might be hurt? If the end goal is to maximize the baby's health and what the baby can get out of life, which is normal for a mother, and these women out of lack of love or sense are doing the polar opposite, then why should they have children in their care at all?

 

[Julie.S]

It would probably feel awful and frightening. To unpack what I said a bit more:

Should a mother kill a child who might be hurt? Should anyone with a child in their care?

It's not loving the child to do that. And if one claims to love a child, it's not smart either. Every child deserves a mother who will do anything to save his/her life. Every child deserves a mother with enough sense to make decent decisions regarding his/her care. Among other things, of course. This is why, when a mother abuses or neglects a child, she can lose custody of that child and possibly face prison time, and rightly so. Sometimes its because they are unloving, sometimes it's because they're incompetent, but the bottom line is she cannot or will not put the child's needs first and the child is harmed because of that. I'm not talking about mistakes that anyone could make, I'm talking about egregious stuff that makes the news. Those kinds of women have shown by their abuse or their neglect that they don't deserve to be mothers. How much more then, a woman who would kill a baby because the baby might be hurt? If the end goal is to maximize the baby's health and what the baby can get out of life, which is normal for a mother, and these women out of lack of love or sense are doing the polar opposite, then why should they have children in their care at all?

I think you need to look at the other stuff I posted here. I don't condone the killing of children at all. I think people need to know how a mother feels at times though I understand the child's life is important but so is the mothers. When the child is still in her its two people you need to worry about not just one.

 

[Sketcher]

I think you need to look at the other stuff I posted here. I don't condone the killing of children at all. I think people need to know how a mother feels at times though I understand the child's life is important but so is the mothers. When the child is still in her its two people you need to worry about not just one.

Which is why I believe that you save both lives whenever possible. If it is not possible, save the life you can save. Saving one is better than losing two. I don't believe the Zika virus qualifies.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Which is why I believe that you save both lives whenever possible. If it is not possible, save the life you can save. Saving one is better than losing two. I don't believe the Zika virus qualifies.

How do we know if Zika virus, that possibly makes the head a lot smaller. Causing possible major brain damage isn't a reason to terminate.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

The baby might be hurt - better kill the baby!
They don't deserve to be mothers.

Or the baby could be totally brain damage. No talking, walking. Wearing diapers for life and having no life. Then the best option may be to terminate the pregnancy. I see that being a good mother.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Well that's the point. They don't know until the baby is born AFAIK.

There are thousands of babies born with all sorts of disabilities even in the US. Most strive to overcome and in doing so become our best citizens.

You mean "They don't know until after they're already trying to raise a special needs child in an impoverished state"

We're talking South America here...not the US.

I'd highly recommend that you research the symptoms (short and long term) of babies born with this.

It's not like being born missing an arm or something (where the person can still learn and thrive in an intellectual field of some sort despite their physical disability).

This directly impacts physical and mental function in a big way.

Symptoms include, seizures, mental disability, severe issues with movement and balance, hearing problems, vision problems, and difficulty eating and swallowing.

Essentially you're saying
"I realize you're living in poverty and already tested positive for the disease, but you should could continue this pregnancy anyway....because you never know, your future mentally disabled baby who can't see, hear, keep their balance, or swallow could grow up to have a fruitful and long career in the slums of Venezuela!!" -- let's try to be realistic here.

I understand your faith dictates an anti-abortion stance...however, even most Christians tend to make exceptions for severe medical reasons (for which this scenario would qualify)

 

[MerlinJ]

Intentionally having kids with microcephaly is virtuous now? I don't think it's disparaging the mentally handicapped or their parents, to not want to raise a whole generation of them.

 

[redleghunter]

You mean "They don't know until after they're already trying to raise a special needs child in an impoverished state"

We're talking South America here...not the US.

I'd highly recommend that you research the symptoms (short and long term) of babies born with this.

It's not like being born missing an arm or something (where the person can still learn and thrive in an intellectual field of some sort despite their physical disability).

This directly impacts physical and mental function in a big way.

Symptoms include, seizures, mental disability, severe issues with movement and balance, hearing problems, vision problems, and difficulty eating and swallowing.

Essentially you're saying
"I realize you're living in poverty and already tested positive for the disease, but you should could continue this pregnancy anyway....because you never know, your future mentally disabled baby who can't see, hear, keep their balance, or swallow could grow up to have a fruitful and long career in the slums of Venezuela!!" -- let's try to be realistic here.

I understand your faith dictates an anti-abortion stance...however, even most Christians tend to make exceptions for severe medical reasons (for which this scenario would qualify)

No my point is how do these impoverished nations know the fetus has the condition during gestation?

 

[redleghunter]

Intentionally having kids with microcephaly is virtuous now? I don't think it's disparaging the mentally handicapped or their parents, to not want to raise a whole generation of them.

At what point do these impoverished communities know the child is affected by the disease?

 

[MerlinJ]

At what point do these impoverished communities know the child is affected by the disease?

Quite late, unfortunately, because you need to wait for the fetus to have developed a good bit to notice that its head is abnormally small from an ultrasound.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/birthdefects/microcephaly.html

 

[redleghunter]

Quite late, unfortunately, because you need to wait for the fetus to have developed a good bit to notice that its head is abnormally small from an ultrasound.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/birthdefects/microcephaly.html

Which leads to my point of impoverished communities not having proper access to such diagnostic equipment to make such determinations.

Which then leads back to the OP which suggests getting abortions just to avoid something that may happen.

Perhaps Francis is right on this account. If women and men fear the unknown perhaps using barrier prophylaxis is the option over abortion on demand.

 

[Julie.S]

Thank you very much for sharing. Yes it can be tough. I have an 11 year old son who has the exact same challenges you face. He is Dyslexic (which was not diagnosed until last year) and ADD. He was also born with a clubbed foot. That set the gynecologist in full swing to tell us our son was Downs and if we wanted to abort let her know. Of course this news saddened us but we were already decided to love and raise the child God blessed us with. He was born healthy and strong, and yes struggles with some math and reading but some math and reading he excels at too.

Perhaps we should apply the philosophy of Forrest Gump's mother when she said 'life is a box of chocolates...you never know what you are going to get."

Its no problem these are things that need to brought to attention more these day I feel. We focus so much on the problems we can see and not on the ones that we can't and that have a possibility of being there.
I also have trouble with some math and reading but I have gotten much better over time and finished college just last December.

 

[redleghunter]

Its no problem these are things that need to brought to attention more these day I feel. We focus so much on the problems we can see and not on the ones that we can't and that have a possibility of being there.
I also have trouble with some math and reading but I have gotten much better over time and finished college just last December.

You and My son are in good company. Einstein I believe was dyslexic. Many inventors were OCD and ADD. Only those who demand perfection from themselves end up excelling beyond what is imaginable!

God Bless you!

 

[Sketcher]

Or the baby could be totally brain damage. No talking, walking. Wearing diapers for life and having no life. Then the best option may be to terminate the pregnancy. I see that being a good mother.

Using "could be" as a basis for taking a known-innocent life is not good.