With What Body

[n2thelight]

I think that many have tried to help you here although it's obviously pointless if we're dealing with a person who holds their own opinion over the scriptures?

What's next?

Where's the line drawn?

What kind of false doctrine is next if you don't believe what the LORD has said?

Scripture says those who have died come back with Christ,nowhere does it says another body,the one they had previously rises up to meet them in the air.....

You think I teach a false doctrine,you're entitled,but I don't have to answer to you,do I

 

[Old Timer]

Scripture says those who have died come back with Christ,nowhere does it says another body,the one they had previously rises up to meet them in the air.....

That's right.. the dead in Christ shall rise FIRST, when He comes.

You think I teach a false doctrine,you're entitled,but I don't have to answer to you,do I

I don't think anything, I know for a fact that what you say is completely contrary to scripture.. you say the resurrection is past and you err (just as scripture says as plain as day).. and not only that.. but that your words will eat like a cancer and that they will overthrow the faith of some.

One can only conclude that this is your intent.

Why else would you persist after being shown the truth over and over again?

You've been given way too much slack here.. you shouldn't even be allowed to post in a Christian forum seeing that you deny essential gospel truths.

But as mentioned.. I'm sure this will not stop you or the rulers of this dark world from spreading their lies. It's simply what they do, and we should expect that.

 

[ViaCrucis]

@ Via

So you believe Christ had a flesh body before being born of woman?

Quite the non-sequitur. But I'll bite.

No, the Logos did not have flesh before He had flesh. The Logos, the eternal and only-begotten Son of the Father, became flesh in the womb of the Virgin Mary, became man. And that man is Jesus the Christ.

For this reason He is the God-Man, being wholly God and wholly human.

God, because as Logos and Son of the Father He is uncreated, eternal, true God. God with God, God of God, homoousios with the Father.

Human, because He was born of Mary, flesh of her flesh, of the Seed of David and Abraham.

"We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, light from light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary
and became truly human." - Nicene Creed

"Therefore, following the holy fathers, we all with one accord teach men to acknowledge one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at once complete in Godhead and complete in manhood, truly God and truly man, consisting also of a reasonable soul and body; of one substance with the Father as regards his Godhead, and at the same time of one substance with us as regards his manhood; like us in all respects, apart from sin; as regards his Godhead, begotten of the Father before the ages, but yet as regards his manhood begotten, for us men and for our salvation, of Mary the Virgin, the God-bearer; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation; the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union, but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence, not as parted or separated into two persons, but one and the same Son and Only-begotten God the Word, Lord Jesus Christ; even as the prophets from earliest times spoke of him, and our Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us, and the creed of the fathers has handed down to us." - Definition of Chalcedon

So what was the rationale behind your inquiry?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[n2thelight]

That's right.. the dead in Christ shall rise FIRST, when He comes.



I don't think anything, I know for a fact that what you say is completely contrary to scripture.. you say the resurrection is past and you err (just as scripture says as plain as day).. and not only that.. but that your words will eat like a cancer and that they will overthrow the faith of some.

One can only conclude that this is your intent.

Why else would you persist after being shown the truth over and over again?

You've been given way too much slack here.. you shouldn't even be allowed to post in a Christian forum seeing that you deny essential gospel truths.

But as mentioned.. I'm sure this will not stop you or the rulers of this dark world from spreading their lies. It's simply what they do, and we should expect that.

How can they come back with Christ and rise at the same time,what part don't you understand.....Ive been shown what you think to be truth...

And I guess those who agree with me are just as bad....I'll stand before Christ without you,as He is my judge,not you.......

 

[n2thelight]

So what was the rationale behind your inquiry?

Scripture shows that we were with God before being born of woman,my point was to show that we shall return to how we were,just as Him...And please don't take that to mean,I think Im a god.........

What did He look like,as we were made in His image,He had to look like something,correct?

 

[Old Timer]

How can they come back with Christ and rise at the same time,what part don't you understand.....Ive been shown what you think to be truth...

It's simply what the scriptures DO SAY.. that the dead in Christ (those who are deceased) shall RISE first and then those who are alive shall be caught up together with them to meet the LORD in the air.

You've been shown many times now and it's pointless.. you reject the truth of the scriptures.

And I guess those who agree with me are just as bad....I'll stand before Christ without you,as He is my judge,not you.......

The very words which He speaks shall judge us in that day.. Good luck telling the LORD that you didn't believe Him.

 

[n2thelight]

It's simply what the scriptures DO SAY.. that the dead in Christ (those who are deceased) shall RISE first and then those who are alive shall be caught up together with them to meet the LORD in the air.

You've been shown many times now and it's pointless.. you reject the truth of the scriptures.



The very words which He speaks shall judge us in that day.. Good luck telling the LORD that you didn't believe Him.

Those who are deceased are already in Heaven with the Lord,this you've been shown many times.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Scripture shows that we were with God before being born of woman,my point was to show that we shall return to how we were,just as Him...And please don't take that to mean,I think Im a god.........

Well that's an entirely new heresy you've apparently chosen to introduce here. And it seems to be a propositional heresy that you're using to defend your other false teachings here.

I didn't begin to exist until I was conceived in my mother's womb. At that moment when sperm and ovum resulted in fertilization, and produced a zygote, I began.

I did not exist before then.

Jesus, however, is eternal and Almighty God, the Logos, the Son, and as such He has always been, without beginning, uncreated. He became incarnate in Mary's womb, His humanity began there in her womb.

Platonism isn't Christianity.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Old Timer]

Those who are deceased are already in Heaven with the Lord,this you've been shown many times.

The spirits of just men made perfect.. that's true, not their bodies.. they shall be raised when He comes.. just as Paul says.

The LORD says it as well, that the resurrection is at the last day..

It's obvious that you could care less about the truth and are just pushing your false doctrine..

Nice job.. as mentioned.. I'm sure it won't be long before you have multitudes believing your false gospel.. I'm certain that you'll give them all that their itching ears want to hear..

 

[n2thelight]

The spirits of just men made perfect.. that's true, not their bodies.. they shall be raised when He comes.. just as Paul says.

The LORD says it as well, that the resurrection is at the last day..

It's obvious that you could care less about the truth and are just pushing your false doctrine..

Nice job.. as mentioned.. I'm sure it won't be long before you have multitudes believing your false gospel.. I'm certain that you'll give them all that their itching ears want to hear..

And scripture says these just men of your's bodies shall be raised,where?

Fact remains,we have two bodies one is dust one is spirit,period

 

[n2thelight]

Well that's an entirely new heresy you've apparently chosen to introduce here. And it seems to be a propositional heresy that you're using to defend your other false teachings here.

I didn't begin to exist until I was conceived in my mother's womb. At that moment when sperm and ovum resulted in fertilization, and produced a zygote, I began.

I did not exist before then.

Jesus, however, is eternal and Almighty God, the Logos, the Son, and as such He has always been, without beginning, uncreated. He became incarnate in Mary's womb, His humanity began there in her womb.

Platonism isn't Christianity.

-CryptoLutheran

Who are the sons of in the below verse

King James Bible
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Notice the word ALL,are you not a son of God......

 

[Old Timer]

Fact remains,we have two bodies one is dust one is spirit,period

Then it's been interesting n2thelight.. even though you may disguise yourself as a messenger of light..

Some of us simply know better.. but you'll do well around here I'm sure.. before long anything but the truth will be acceptable.

 

[n2thelight]

Then it's been interesting n2thelight.. even though you may disguise yourself as a messenger of light..

Some of us simply know better.. but you'll do well around here I'm sure.. before long anything but the truth will be acceptable.

Not my words, yu can read what Paul says about that fact

 

[Ronald]

I will agree with others that you're mis-applying this verse to resurrection...that is NOT what is in view here Ronald.

This was a vision given Ezekiel by God and the dry bones are representative of Israel not being in the land. That's what it is...in Ezekiel 37:11, 12...God tells Ezekiel as much:
11 Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel; behold, they say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope has perished. We are completely cut off.’
12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel.

I would expect a partial prederist to come to this interpretation. I've decided a while back not to go into any eschatological discussions with Amillenialists.
There's a gulf between our views and no resolve in sight. Just wait, within a year all you guys will be changing your view quite abruptly!

 

[ebedmelech]

I would expect a partial prederist to come to this interpretation. I've decided a while back not to go into any eschatological discussions with Amillenialists.
There's a gulf between our views and no resolve in sight. Just wait, within a year all you guys will be changing your view quite abruptly!

It really doesn't matter what eschatalogical view you have Ronald the passage clearly says who the dead bones are and how it applies:
Ezekiel 37
11 Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel; behold, they say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope has perished. We are completely cut off.’
12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel.

So your argument is pretty much with the passage itself. You just have to READ it. God tells you the bones "ARE THE WHOLE HOUSE OF ISRAEL", and he's going to bring them back into the land.

Instead of trying to win an argument...try to learn what scripture is truly saying...that will take you farther than anyone's particular view...

 

[ViaCrucis]

Who are the sons of in the below verse

King James Bible
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Notice the word ALL,are you not a son of God......

Adopted, by grace, in Christ.

Benei Elohim, in Job here, is a reference to the angelic host. I'm not an angel.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[parousia70]

Very simple. Those eleven guys HE taught and left to launch the church on Pentecost!!! Christ wanted them to be assured that it was He...so His crucifixion wounds remained.

Again, nothing there preventing you from extrapolating that reasoning, and applying it to his entire Body.... If he went from Hades directly to Heaven without emerging in His self same body, those 11 would have had nothing to hang their hat on for "assurance" of the resurrection.

Since we won't need to assure anyone, we wont need to be raised in our self same Body... Christ was the only one who was promised that His Body would not decay... no such promise exists for the rest of us.

 

[parousia70]

Just wait, within a year all you guys will be changing your view quite abruptly!

Date setting is against Forum rules.

It's also ALWAYS, without fail, an embarrassment to the date setter when the date comes and goes, as it always, without fail does.........

But I look forward to quoting this post in April 0f 2015 and seeing how you bob and weave as you move the goalposts out another year...

 

[parousia70]

Well that's an entirely new heresy you've apparently chosen to introduce here. And it seems to be a propositional heresy that you're using to defend your other false teachings here.

I didn't begin to exist until I was conceived in my mother's womb. At that moment when sperm and ovum resulted in fertilization, and produced a zygote, I began.

I did not exist before then.

Jesus, however, is eternal and Almighty God, the Logos, the Son, and as such He has always been, without beginning, uncreated. He became incarnate in Mary's womb, His humanity began there in her womb.

Platonism isn't Christianity.

-CryptoLutheran

This brings up a fascinating (to me anyway) thought...

In the resurrection, in the eternal, timeless state, will those resurrected to eternal life be "with Christ" in the beginning? - will the existence of our resurrected Bodies therefore pre date the time the sperm and egg connected to form our carnal bodies?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Again, nothing there preventing you from extrapolating that reasoning, and applying it to his entire Body.... If he went from Hades directly to Heaven without emerging in His self same body, those 11 would have had nothing to hang their hat on for "assurance" of the resurrection.

Since we won't need to assure anyone, we wont need to be raised in our self same Body... Christ was the only one who was promised that His Body would not decay... no such promise exists for the rest of us.

1 Corinthians 15:53,

δεῖ γὰρ τὸ φθαρτὸν τοῦτο ἐνδύσασθαι ἀφθαρσίαν

The present body is perishable (phtharton), that is it decays, it rots, put it in the ground and it will become dust; the future body, when the body is raised, is aphtharsian, non-decaying, non-perishing.

That which is mortal and perishable shall become immortal and imperishable. Namely, the body. For, St. Paul writes, "If the Spirit of Him who raised Christ from the dead is also in you, then He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies." (Romans 8:11).

Also, your icon says Roman Catholic, your own Catechism affirms thus (source):

"989 We firmly believe, and hence we hope that, just as Christ is truly risen from the dead and lives for ever, so after death the righteous will live for ever with the risen Christ and he will raise them up on the last day. Our resurrection, like his own, will be the work of the Most Holy Trinity:

If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit who dwells in you

990 The term "flesh" refers to man in his state of weakness and mortality. The "resurrection of the flesh" (the literal formulation of the Apostles' Creed) means not only that the immortal soul will live on after death, but that even our "mortal body" will come to life again.

991 Belief in the resurrection of the dead has been an essential element of the Christian faith from its beginnings. "The confidence of Christians is the resurrection of the dead; believing this we live."

How can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised; if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. . . . But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep."

-CryptoLutheran