Witchcraft in church?

Goodbook

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i dont intend to start a witchhunt here.
But sometimes I see or hear odd things going on in church that are spiritual but are not of the Lord.

How can we discern?
I always assume people in church are christians and born again till I hear otherwise, or if they had practised witchcraft in the past theyve fully repented, but sometimes people will just do or say things competely contrary to the Bible that makes me wonder..are they following the wrong spirit?

Has anyone had this experience, and what do you do about it? I recall one believer sayignto me shed read a book in which witches were praying AGAINST a church and also that they would infiltrate churches, pretend they are christians and then undermine everyones faith, kind of like Jezebel.

Also, wizards (male witches) could be doing that as well, for all I know.
 

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i dont intend to start a witchhunt here.
But sometimes I see or hear odd things going on in church that are spiritual but are not of the Lord.

How can we discern?
I always assume people in church are christians and born again till I hear otherwise, or if they had practised witchcraft in the past theyve fully repented, but sometimes people will just do or say things competely contrary to the Bible that makes me wonder..are they following the wrong spirit?

Has anyone had this experience, and what do you do about it? I recall one believer sayignto me shed read a book in which witches were praying AGAINST a church and also that they would infiltrate churches, pretend they are christians and then undermine everyones faith, kind of like Jezebel.

Also, wizards (male witches) could be doing that as well, for all I know.
Wizards are the stuff of fairytale and bad movie fiction.
Witches are witches be they male or female. No Warlocks either. Warlock is derived from the wǣrloga and meaning, Traitor.

To your concern. Could you give examples of what you've encountered that leads you to think of Witchcraft in church?
 
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Goodbook

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I have left this church now but I think what struck me was. Alot of it was the Sensuality.
Like you can do what you like, as long as it doesnt harm others.

I know thats a maxim of the church of satan, or witches or occult.
Theres one girl who is was very focussed on outward appearances to the point of near flattering like the clothes i wore. She herself would always kindof dress in black and skinny tight jeans. Also, she lit candles during prayer..it wasnt dark, but thats a kind of occult thing to do. When I wouldnt go with her overseas, she pretty much reacted and lashed out at me. She had manipualted me into paying for a ticket, and then blamed me saying it was my own fault. Her husband left her for I dont know what reason..just her background was pretty shady.


I dont know its just some of the women give off a not christian vibe. One says shes a grief counselor, but she operates psychological, not biblical counselling. You need to pay her money to see her if you got a problem. I thought you just go for prayer and its free.

The music in this church was pretty sensual when I look back on it. Like people would even applaud at the end, like it was a concert. Compared to the hymns at my old church, most of the songs werent mentioning Jesus at all. Then i remember the preacher claiming the holy spirit was moving in Gods house, and going round touching people. People would start randomly praising God, out loud but it was kinda orchestrated as well. Sometimes there was an element of..God wants you rich in the sermons.

One time, they had a christmas concert, and the pastors children were doing items. Well the youth group. And they had songs about santa claus and the pastors son dressed up in a female outfit and danced around. He also said it was better the church was at night..cos i dont know it just looked better. They were into theatricals. It just seemed like..i dont know it was very odd..youd go to a church, expecting it to be godly christian, etc. then find its like going into a nightclub or rock concert.

Of course these things arent out and out wicca or anything like that. But the preacher did say he came from a family that had witchcraft in his background. He weould recommed that i read prosperity books like joyce meyer and joel osteen. I know much of posperity gospel is just a chrisitanised version of the Secret. So im just wondering about that.
 
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If any witchcraft is going on in churches then the practitioners don't realize it. Those folks would honestly believe they're following God 100% because spiritual delusion is a real thing. Now, I could tell you about an article I read on a pagan site once that accurately compared practices they use with those often seen in some pentecostal churches out there, but people would get offended. Let's just say I agreed with the article, and my own personal experiences growing up in such churches lead me to believe such comparisons as well. However, actual witches going to churches to secretly infiltrate them is one of those urban legend things I don't buy into. Most of those are made up sensationalist tales.

For example: I grew up in a tongues speaking church. When I was twelve-years-old I experienced this for the first time. It was extremely real. I wasn't just making up stuff on my end. It was an altered state of consciousness- it was a 'high'- and I literally couldn't stop. Believe me, I tried. I was speaking in tongues for hours on end at a church camp. I did not have control over myself. I now believe that I was under the influence of a spirit, but it certainly wasn't the Holy Spirit.
 
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You've covered a wide array of things.

The woman focused on outward appearance: That's pretty much the culture today and so it's not uncommon to see it walk through the front doors on Sundays. It wasn't too long ago that showing an ankle was considered inappropriate content. We've pretty much run out of stuff to show, so I don't think it can go much further. The candles: I don't know, it might or might not be a symptom of the dark side. The manipulation and anger: That's just strange, unless you made a solid commitment to her and then backed out of it and that disrupted her own plans for the trip. Her husband could've left her for any one or a combination or reasons, even something as simple as she's insane and/or unpredictable. Or maybe he was even more insane than she is and she was the normal one of the pair. We really don't know & probably never will.

The grief counselor: We all have to make a living. I see nothing wrong with charging for professional services, especially when the consumer might have no tolerance for a Christian perspective on the problem. And then who's to say she's not sneaking a little of that in during the sessions, which would be great. Also, if some of the fees come back to the church in the form of tithes and offerings, I'm for it.

On the music deal, one person's sensual is another person's normal. Another thing: It's not uncommon to start a "worship experience" with a secular song just to bridge the gap between the new/unchurched attendees and the Christian message. You have to hit them from the beginning with material they can identify with. Flatirons Community Church does a great job at that. I believe they even have nights where all they play are secular songs -- just to attract new believers the following Sunday. I'm all for that. It's 2015 and you can't attract new/young believers with an old lady sitting at a Hammond B-3 and a 50-watt sound system with a couple of tinny speakers from 1971 hanging from the ceiling. Those days are gone, and I say good riddance, unless it's a church that serves only an older population, in which case that's what they need, so best not to change the model.

Last Christmas concert I played (I'm no longer with that church), we opened with some heavy metal song from Trans Siberian Orchestra. Carol of the Bells, I think it was called. Complete with flashing white Christmas trees run by the lighting crew, lol. But it was fun and the people who were there (average age 35 maybe) got a kick out of it. I don't think it was disrespectful or anything.

Santa and Christmas trees are pagan images. Michel Rood does a good job of explaining. But people who are ok with Santa and Christmas trees do it ignorantly and passively, and probably with a good dose of herd mentality, too, not as part of pagan worship.

I know what you mean about preachers going around the room and laying hands on people. Sometimes the people seem like they're reacting on cue to the touch. Especially when you have catchers standing behind the people for when the Sprit knocks them down. Frankly I don't know what to make of that. It's either fake, or the preacher sure has some high-octane anointing. I see it on TV a lot but never in person. I do know the real thing exists 'cause I saw a tape of Reinhard Bonnke in Africa where a group of a thousand people of a 0.5M crowd fell to the ground in a wave, as if a giant hand had swept over them and knocked them all down like little toy soldiers. It was scary to watch. You can't fake that.

I could be wrong, but I wouldn't characterize either Meyer or Osteen as prosperity preachers. Prosperity may be a component of their messages, but I don't think it's their main themes. I have big problems with one of them unrelated to the prosperity concern, but I won't go down that rabbit trail.

That preacher you heard sounds strange. The woman sounds strange. The whole deal there sounds strange. I can't come up with a cohesive, overarching theme. Basically it sounds like a hot mess, but the financial numbers might be working so they're going to leave things as is. Is there a salvation message at all or is it just fluff with no real meat to it? I've been in fluff churches like that. Get 'em in, get 'em saved by getting them to check the box on the connection card and that way we know for sure, get 'em in a group, get 'em to serve, get 'em signed up for electronic giving, run up the numbers. The Mill. On the other hand, I've seen churches who run the same play but have outstanding Bible-based messages and people's lives are totally changed for the better. It's really hard to categorize a lot of these places. Almost like you need a separate category for each one.
 
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Goodbook

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The scariest thing ive seen is this youtube video that had a preacher called Kenneth Hagin in it who was somehow making the whole of this church congregation laugh hysterically and slither out of their seats. He made hissing noises.

I had to look up who he was cos one of the ladies at church gave me some books by him to donate to the church library. I was a bit wary of her after that cos she believed in some strange things..which, she claimed were biblical but..I think it was more...repeat this scripture, name it and claim it theology. Again.

Also, another time, i wasnt there one sunday and a member told me the preaching had to stop and they had one of those falling down tongue talking sessions where everyone went a bit nuts. I dont know what to make of this and glad I wasnt there...but i have been to healing services in other churches where its really hyped up, they push you over, claim you healed when you arent etc.
 
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i dont intend to start a witchhunt here.
But sometimes I see or hear odd things going on in church that are spiritual but are not of the Lord.

How can we discern?
I always assume people in church are christians and born again till I hear otherwise, or if they had practised witchcraft in the past theyve fully repented, but sometimes people will just do or say things competely contrary to the Bible that makes me wonder..are they following the wrong spirit?

*Don't assume everyone is saved/born again... fruit inspection should go on a lot more than it does.
In scripture...letters/reports, character references, shepherding etc were commonplace... nowadays,
too many assume everyone is OK and they're allowed to do this or that in the church...as I recall
someone on here posted about a bible study being taught by someone who didn't uphold biblical
teachings...someone else talked about teaching teens and that he wasn't even saved-- but since his
dad was a minister, he could put on a good act.


Has anyone had this experience, and what do you do about it? I recall one believer sayignto me shed read a book in which witches were praying AGAINST a church and also that they would infiltrate churches, pretend they are christians and then undermine everyones faith, kind of like Jezebel.

Also, wizards (male witches) could be doing that as well, for all I know.

*We went to NC on vacation a couple of years ago and stayed at Billy Graham's Cove...
we were there for the weekend, a music event was going on, teaching and meals etc.

We took the tour with other guests, questions were asked and the guide told us that
it was a regular thing for witches to come there...like wolves in sheep's clothing...
they'd pray against the Cove or try to cast curses there.
The Cove has an awesome group of prayer warriors who constantly pray against that and
security people are onsite watching/monitoring guest's movements etc. It use to be
one could just drive onto the property but that was done away with because of the
aforementioned problem(wolves in sheep's clothing causing problems etc.)
Anyone speaking there are people who have a firm root in the faith, there's no
"Joe Smith" coming in off the street to teach or do a workshop.

My church dealt with false teachers/false teachings... So now, one has to have a
proven track record, character reference, pass a background check, be saved etc...
Then the candidate is matched with a mentor or mentors and the mentoring goes on for a time.
If all goes well, the new teacher is allowed to teach and or be in leadership...
the person is accountable to the minister and or elder depending on who is overseeing
the process...this is what my husband went through before he was allowed to become
the men's new bible study teacher just over a month ago.
 
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Goodbook

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Thats good to know BFine, i know in some cases churches ask all ministers to be ordained at bible college etc before they even set forth preaching but problem is it seems many bible colleges are now teaching weird things that arent biblical?

For example, there is a bible college just up the road from me, i went there once to read the bible with my friends..i was looking for a bible and found that one of the librarians there wasnt even a believer. I dont know why an unbeliever would be working in a bible college? I asked him something about the bible and he just said he didnt believe.

This same bible college was playing really loud music at their cafe and wouldnt turn it down when we asked them to as we wanted to have fellowship and hear each other talk and discuss the bible. It was just really weird.
 
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Goodbook

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And..one of my friends was working there, well she still is, shes really into theology and church history and all, i have nothing against wanting to learn all that, but about two years ago she got really stressed out working there. It may have been related to her job there.
Shes like a student helper/support.

And another graduate I know comitted suicide, i dont know if its just he couldnt find a decent job after completeing his doctors of divinity or whatver it is, but I know he studied there.

I know a church now fellowships there that used to rent a hall at the local school..and they are into weird bethel teachings. They have this counselling part of minsitry so you study to be a counselor but i dont know i just find it odd that people would recommend psychology over prayer. I mean theres nothing wrong with one on one counselling just to talk through issues as you sometimes need that but to charge people for it and make money from it unnecessarily i found is really wrong. Sometimes people just need a hug you know?
 
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The scariest thing ive seen is this youtube video that had a preacher called Kenneth Hagin in it who was somehow making the whole of this church congregation laugh hysterically and slither out of their seats. He made hissing noises.

Oh yeah, that's Hagin Sr. His son is head pastor at Rhema Ministries down in Oklahoma (USA). I like Hagin Sr. a lot. His insights are the basis for several high-profile ministries today. But I did watch that video you're talking about and I remember shaking my head wondering if it was bogus. Problem is, the way the Spirit operates vs how my tiny brain perceives things is like comparing a room full of supercomputers to a $5 handheld calculator bought off a rack at Target. And so any answer (or, more accurately, judgment) I come up with would have about a 0.001 probability of being correct. I take what I need from Hagin Sr. that rings loud and true with the Spirit inside me, and leave the rest for someone else to figure out.

I know a church now fellowships there that used to rent a hall at the local school..and they are into weird bethel teachings. They have this counselling part of minsitry so you study to be a counselor but i dont know i just find it odd that people would recommend psychology over prayer. I mean theres nothing wrong with one on one counselling just to talk through issues as you sometimes need that but to charge people for it and make money from it unnecessarily i found is really wrong. Sometimes people just need a hug you know?

I see what you mean now about the paid-for counseling, that it was part of the church, not a separate professional practice. I don't know what to make of that. Was it "pay or you don't get the service" or was it "we appreciate your voluntary support so we can continue doing this?"

I had to look up what bethel teachings were all about, which led me to Jesus Culture, one of my favorite bands. I guess they have this glory cloud deal going on, and gold dust is left behind? I always wondered why Kim Walker/Smith had shiny specks of stuff on her face. So now the question would be, was it left there during the experience, or is it a Revlon product. Again, I'm too limited in perception to judge. I did read something bethel-related where people were getting pulled out of wheelchairs. I'm like, "What?!?" Totally unscriptural.
 
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camperdown9

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Hmm

Not sure.

When I was a kid I lived in Belfast, Northern Ireland and halloween was a big children's festival. (Sorry just a side note to any North American readers and a few English people. Halloween isn't American, emigrants from Ireland brought it to North American. Kids at least in Northern Ireland always celebrated halloween and in the late 80's it was imported from the US to England. Many English people think of it as being american and a new thing, but we always had it.) Churches, youth groups at church had kids parties, fancy dress competitions and games for halloween. It was nothing to do with witchcraft and devil worship it was just fun and a social event and in a way it encouraged people to come to church.

Dressing for church varies. One of the churches I attended all the men wear suit's and ties. In another its more like jeans and t-shirts. In the one my sister attends women try to out do each other by really dressing up.

Lighting a candle during prayers is something that we would do often as a point to focus on.

Music also varies. Some churches use hymn books and its all very reserved. Others have a full band and its praise music with people clapping, or hands in the air or even dancing. The church that I go to most often on a Sunday will have people standing up and singing praise music for maybe 20-30mins before anything really happens.
 
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Goodbook - can you order stuff from the US? If so, I suggest a couple of books called "I Was Always On My Mind" and "Confronting Jezebel" by Steve Sampson.

http://stevesampson.com/books
 
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I also think that if there is dark occult rituals and rites going on in a church the faithful owe it to themselves to leave. Shake the dust from their feet and walk free of that which puts their sense of spiritual security at risk.

And leave it at that. Don't dwell. Recognize he wolf or wolves in the pulpit or the pews for what they are and walk away. Because that is not where God wants you to be.
You won't change them but you can choose to change the church you go to or the people you associate with.
 
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i dont intend to start a witchhunt here.
But sometimes I see or hear odd things going on in church that are spiritual but are not of the Lord.

How can we discern?
I always assume people in church are christians and born again till I hear otherwise, or if they had practised witchcraft in the past theyve fully repented, but sometimes people will just do or say things competely contrary to the Bible that makes me wonder..are they following the wrong spirit?

Has anyone had this experience, and what do you do about it? I recall one believer sayignto me shed read a book in which witches were praying AGAINST a church and also that they would infiltrate churches, pretend they are christians and then undermine everyones faith, kind of like Jezebel.

Also, wizards (male witches) could be doing that as well, for all I know.
Well, I did hear of a local coven that specifically "prayed" against our church and pastors. I don't know its name or who is in it, but I did hear that it exists.

As far as infiltration goes, I'm not sure where I'm at on that. I've met a practicing witch who was not at all comfortable in a worship service, and had to get outside. I've also met someone who dabbled in the occult, and dabbled in Christianity, and worshiped without it making a lick of difference in how she lived her life outside of that. And we have guides in the New Testament for what to look out for in imposters (1 John) and what leaders should exhibit (1 Timothy 3). In a good church, people like that would be detected and not considered for leadership.
 
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Goodbook

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Im also wary of just women groups, some of them.
I have been to some meetings and a conference and just get this weird feeling that...the women there would just rather be without men. I dont know, one of the meetings was again, like one of the female preachers had a 'prophecy' like declaring God is doing this or that, revival etc but thats what they say every year. Then she calls out people and says God is saying this or that to you. I dont know about you but God is capable of speaking to me personally, not through someone else or someone ive never met before at random in fromt of heaps of other people.
My friend, who goes to these meetings, tries to get me to go to them but I dont want to.
Its mostly old retired ladies.

Another wanted me to go to a womens conference thats on every year, costs heaps to go to, and is just speaker after speaker promoting their books. You even had to pay for a cup of tea.
Thankfully, it was all booked out.

I just dont find them edifying, well, some of it is and the rest of it is carrying on thats just weird. I want to tell this friend who goes to them to warn them that its no good but they want to go, maybe they not sensitive to the things I am? Just cos they are women doesnt mean all of them are christians...i just find some of them quite manipulative in the way they pray and ask for money. Like quite blatantly, if you dont give, God wont bless you.
 
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I just said to this friend that im busy the days that this womens meeting is on, and hope she doesnt txt me again wanting me to go.
I cant put my finger on what it is, and not sure what to tell her why i dont actually want to go.

Thankfully that other womens conference all booked out and cant go anyway. Sure some people are blessed by it and God can reach through even when theirs wolves hanging round but I dont need to go or put myself in that position.

She offered to pay but Im like uh...
I told both ladies why not go and visit a garden instead and have outselves a mini sisters conference.
 
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brinny

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The scariest thing ive seen is this youtube video that had a preacher called Kenneth Hagin in it who was somehow making the whole of this church congregation laugh hysterically and slither out of their seats. He made hissing noises.

I had to look up who he was cos one of the ladies at church gave me some books by him to donate to the church library. I was a bit wary of her after that cos she believed in some strange things..which, she claimed were biblical but..I think it was more...repeat this scripture, name it and claim it theology. Again.

Also, another time, i wasnt there one sunday and a member told me the preaching had to stop and they had one of those falling down tongue talking sessions where everyone went a bit nuts. I dont know what to make of this and glad I wasnt there...but i have been to healing services in other churches where its really hyped up, they push you over, claim you healed when you arent etc.

Yeah, i love the "pushing over" part....a woman tried to do this with me, but c'mon, i wasn't gonna "fake it" and i kinda' felt bad for her cuz she was tryin' sooooo hard...but i wasn't gonna do sumthin' that just wasn't there....

what comes to mind for me, is that in this woman's example, it was more "her" will than God's that i "fall over"......what i realized is that it wasn't about God at all, but about some kind of "performance"...and hey, i was there to focus on God, not on "her" power to make me fall over or collapse.

Even my former Bishop said right up there on the podium that he knows a lot of peoples "fake" the talkin' in tongues, and being "slain in the spirit", yet he was one of the very ones who "encouraged" it.

I had read this and heard that Satan LOVES being in the Church. It's one of his fav'rite places. And it's because so many have no discernment to detect who he is and his "fruits", and are bereft of the "fruits of the Spirit" which are the antithesis to him. And he does NOT want any of us to focus on and grasp and embrace the fruits of the Spirit, cuz well y'know, they ARE the demise of "self" and "him" cuz he LOVES being in the "self", our "self". He feels right at home in there, and just hopes we don't notice him in there, and/or in "church".......

and he can be quite deceiving. After all, he's had lots of practice and he knows how to appear to be an "angel of light", and does it all the time.

Church = Satan's fav'rite place.

"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:" ~I Peter 5:8
 
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Goodbook

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Hmm

Not sure.

When I was a kid I lived in Belfast, Northern Ireland and halloween was a big children's festival. (Sorry just a side note to any North American readers and a few English people. Halloween isn't American, emigrants from Ireland brought it to North American. Kids at least in Northern Ireland always celebrated halloween and in the late 80's it was imported from the US to England. Many English people think of it as being american and a new thing, but we always had it.) Churches, youth groups at church had kids parties, fancy dress competitions and games for halloween. It was nothing to do with witchcraft and devil worship it was just fun and a social event and in a way it encouraged people to come to church.

Dressing for church varies. One of the churches I attended all the men wear suit's and ties. In another its more like jeans and t-shirts. In the one my sister attends women try to out do each other by really dressing up.

Lighting a candle during prayers is something that we would do often as a point to focus on.

Music also varies. Some churches use hymn books and its all very reserved. Others have a full band and its praise music with people clapping, or hands in the air or even dancing. The church that I go to most often on a Sunday will have people standing up and singing praise music for maybe 20-30mins before anything really happens.
I have only heard of churches doing ' light' parties not actually celebrating halloween in any way, shape or form. Is it a catholic thing to do with all saints day?

There was one event where we dressed up like royalty. But most of the dressing up is as people in the bible..if the church is staging a production for example. This church did a LOT of productions.
 
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One of them I recall the youth did. Actually it wasnt dressing up as people from the bible, it was modern day. They had all the youth dance to this music, im not sure if it was christian, i honestly couldnt tell. And the story was about someone who got into drugs and sleeping round etc. they even had fake cigarettes and people looking like they doing drugs in the play. Of course they get saved...but not before trying to shoot each other.

Ok, harmless you might think, its a morality play. But i dont think we should play at being evil or mess around with it, even though its fake. These are young impressionable youth who rather 'perform' than be real.
 
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