Will You Stand With Peter?

[A New World]

Will You Stand With Peter?

Many commonly use Peter's words in 2 Pet. 3:8 as an attempt to nullify all of the imminent language used by the inspired writers throughout the New Testament.

The following will hopefully illustrate the futility of that approach.

Peter identified his intended audience in his first epistle. He wrote: "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen" (1 Pet. 1:1).

He informed them that they were "kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time...Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ...He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you" (1 Pet. 1:5,13,20).

And also, "...the end of all things is near; therefore be serious and watchful in your prayers...For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:7,17)

Peter wrote both First and Second Peter to those of the Dispersion, scattered among the nations, in about the early AD 60s. This is made evident in his second epistle as he wrote the following: "This is now, beloved, the second letter I am writing to you in which I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder" (2 Pet. 3:1).

Now to the verse most commonly used as an attempt to deny the multiple imminent time statements made throughout the New Testament:

"But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day" (2 Pet. 3:8).

Many believe Peter was saying here that the New Testament prophetic time statements were not intended for the audiences identified by the writers. Some will admit in his first letter Peter informed those scattered abroad that their salvation was ready to be revealed in the last time, the end of all things was near, and that it was time for the judgment to begin. And, that they all eagerly expected to witness the fulfillment of those prophecies. But, in this second letter Peter was telling them that it may mean absolutely nothing to them personally because God was only speaking from His eternal perspective.

Many of these interpreters think that at most God told them that it may be the last time, the end may be near, and the judgment may be ready to begin. But, because a day is as a thousand years to God, "last time, near, and ready to begin" could actually be thousands of years off in the distant future. And now, from our modern perspective looking back, most futurists believe that is exactly what has transpired.

Now let's take a look at an alternative view.

For the sake of argument, let's allow the multiple time statements to stand in their normal straightforward manner. And, let's take a closer look at 2 Peter chapter 3.

The verses immediately preceding 2 Peter 3:8 will serve to inform our interpretation of the time statements made in his previous epistle:

2 Peter 3:2-7 "that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation." For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

Peter and his audiences knew they were living in the last days, the last time, the time of judgment, the time of the end. They knew they were living in the time of the last days scoffers who would begin questioning the time of the coming promised long before by the fathers. Peter told them these scoffers would deny the imminence of the coming saying instead, "all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation." In other words they were saying, "we've heard that God's judgment is coming all of our lives but obviously things are continuing just as they always have." If the scoffers had read Peter's first epistle they certainly rejected his warning of an imminent coming of the Lord.

Peter said the end was near, the scoffers said all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.

I believe the futurists fail to realize that their view agrees with, and is in support of, the scoffers. They deny Peter's inspired words given in his first epistle to those scattered abroad in the first century AD.

I have chosen to stand with Peter. I believe their salvation was ready to be revealed in the last time, the end of all things was near, and that it was time for the judgment to begin.

Since I once held the futurist view, I have to ask the question: Will you stand with Peter or will you stand with the scoffers?

 

[timewerx]

Peter was right. Peter was already in the last days as it is today.

We are speaking of cosmological time scales. Things will change indeed but it might proceed so slowly....

...That we may not notice that change had already transpired....


For example, the prophecy of Micah for all women begun already in the 1920s - the feminist movement.


But not everything will go unnoticed.


...And Jesus also warned against those who will preach "the day is at hand"...

For the Truth cannot be rushed. Those who rush it surely fall into false teachings.


I'm not saying the end may not come for another thousands years. It may come tomorrow but the subject of our teaching shouldn't be about rushing things because the time is nigh. MOST the teachings of Jesus is not about the subject because it isn't the most important thing. In fact, Jesus teached more about warning against those who will do such preachings.



So many other things I can't tell. Things you must figure out yourself.

 

[A New World]

Peter was right. Peter was already in the last days as it is today.

I believe the Scriptures teach that the last days were an objective time period. It was the last days of the age in which they lived. I believe Jesus and the disciples were living during the time of the Old Covenant age.

We know that Jesus was born during that age, under the law of Moses (Gal. 4:4). We know that His entire earthly ministry occurred during that age. We also know that Jesus talked of the end of that age (Mt. 24:3). Therefore, I don't think we can extend the end of the age prophecy beyond that generation.

They were told they were living in the last days. I find it illogical that we are also living in the last days.

...And Jesus also warned against those who will preach "the day is at hand"...

Does that include Peter, James, John and Paul who ALL told their audiences the day was at hand?

Peter: "But the end of all things is at hand; therefore be serious and watchful in your prayers" (1 Pet. 4:7)

James: "You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand" (James 5:8)

John: "Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is at hand" (Rev. 1:3)

Paul: "The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light" (Rom. 13:12)

 

[timewerx]

The last days is a very long period of time. Did the Lord come back already? Well, I have no answer for that but it's possible the answer is yes but it is an on-going process and nearly everyone had missed it.

Does that include Peter, James, John and Paul who ALL told their audiences the day was at hand?

YES!

 

[A New World]

The last days is a very long period of time. Did the Lord come back already? Well, I have no answer for that but it's possible the answer is yes but it is an on-going process and nearly everyone had missed it.

Scripture tells us explicitly that the last days of that age included the time when God spoke to them through His Son and the days in which they were living. To extend the last days beyond their generation is speculation. There is no scriptural support for that idea.

Hebrews 1:1-2 "God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds"

Does that include Peter, James, John and Paul who ALL told their audiences the day was at hand?

YES!

Are you saying you believe Peter, James, John and Paul were all false prophets?

That view leads to many problems including denying the inspiration of Scripture.

 

[timewerx]

Are you saying you believe Peter, James, John and Paul were all false prophets?

That view leads to many problems including denying the inspiration of Scripture.

Not every part of the scripture is inspired.

Someday, I'll prove this to you and you will understand.

 

[A New World]

Not every part of the scripture is inspired.

Someday, I'll prove this to you and you will understand.

Inspired or not, were they deceiving, lying to, or manipulating their audiences?

Either their words were true or false. How much of what they wrote was reliable?

I hold Scripture to a higher standard than that.

 

[timewerx]

Inspired or not, were they deceiving, lying to, or manipulating their audiences?

Either their words were true or false. How much of what they wrote was reliable?

I hold Scripture to a higher standard than that.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

I don't think that anyone is intently lying or intently trying to deceive in religion except the devil himself. Discernment is by knowledge and sound logic, not by ignorance, more ignorance, and blind faith.

 

[A New World]

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

I don't think that anyone is intently lying or intently trying to deceive in religion except the devil himself. Discernment is by knowledge and sound logic, not by ignorance, more ignorance, and blind faith.

Are you able and willing to give a logical, reasonable response to the following points I made earlier? I'm always interested in a civil discussion with one who can defend what they believe.

I believe the Scriptures teach that the last days were an objective time period. It was the last days of the age in which they lived. I believe Jesus and the disciples were living during the time of the Old Covenant age.

We know that Jesus was born during that age, under the law of Moses (Gal. 4:4). We know that His entire earthly ministry occurred during that age. We also know that Jesus talked of the end of that age (Mt. 24:3). Therefore, I don't think we can extend the end of the age prophecy beyond that generation.

They were told they were living in the last days. I find it illogical that we are also living in the last days.

Didn't Peter, James, John and Paul ALL tell their audiences the day was at hand?

Peter: "But the end of all things is at hand; therefore be serious and watchful in your prayers" (1 Pet. 4:7)

James: "You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand" (James 5:8)

John: "Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is at hand" (Rev. 1:3)

Paul: "The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light" (Rom. 13:12)

Whether you believe they were Inspired or not, were the NT writers deceiving, lying to, or manipulating their audiences?

Either their words were true or false. How much of what they wrote was reliable?

I hold Scripture to a higher standard than that.

 

[timewerx]

Are you able and willing to give a logical, reasonable response to the following points I made earlier? I'm always interested in a civil discussion with one who can defend what they believe.

It's difficult to discuss chronology of prophecies since time is often addressed subjectively. Matthew 24 for example has far too many parallels or possible interpretations to dwell on just one meaning.

The inspiration of the Bible is dubious on most parts. Most are showing signs of self-righteousness.

I have not officially quantified it but we're probably standing at more than 50% uninspired content in the Bible.

The purpose of the Word, hence, Jesus, is to find the lost, not change the evil and make them good because the lost already knows the Word. The accuser (satan) makes the lost doubt but Jesus cast off those doubts.


Making evil act good is called self-righteousness and hypocrisy - this gives birth to a religion and this phenomenon is endemic to many characters in the Bible. You'll find less of this in children until they are corrupted by worldly ways taught to them by adults.


John 12:47-48
47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them

A lot of Christians have often rejected the words of Christ over some conflicting teachings from the Apostles

 

[A New World]

It's difficult to discuss chronology of prophecies since time is often addressed subjectively. Matthew 24 for example has far too many parallels or possible interpretations to dwell on just one meaning.

The inspiration of the Bible is dubious on most parts. Most are showing signs of self-righteousness.

I have not officially quantified it but we're probably standing at more than 50% uninspired content in the Bible.

I have no idea if your guess is accurate or not. The best way I've found to study Scripture is to trust those who have knowledge of the original languages and the available manuscript evidence. If at some point I find out that the scholars are wrong and 50% of the Bible is not inspired by God I'll adjust my approach.

As of now, I'm trying to honestly pursue the content of Scripture as though it's inspired. But, I refuse to blindly follow the traditional mindset or that of my favorite theologian.

I don't believe Jesus' recorded words can be separated from the words of the prophets that came before him. His arrival was not an isolated event. He came in fulfillment of their prophecies. In the same way, his words can never be separated from the disciples he specifically called to himself in the first century AD. They were given a commission to fulfill. They were to preach the gospel of the kingdom which was at hand.

Jesus made promises to them just before he ascended. They were to go to Jerusalem and wait for further fulfillment. Then the church was born. The disciples/apostles continued what had begun with the arrival of the Messiah. Their ministries were extensions of Jesus' life, death and resurrection.

The purpose of the Word, hence, Jesus, is to find the lost, not change the evil and make them good because the lost already knows the Word. The accuser (satan) makes the lost doubt but Jesus cast off those doubts.

The New Testament gives us the purpose of the Word. Jesus said he came to save the lost sheep of Israel, and fulfill their promises. He came during the time of the Old Covenant age. He said that age would end when "not one stone would be left upon another."

Jesus' arrival not only meant the imminent end of the Old Covenant. He also came to establish a New Covenant which was promised before to Abraham and through Jeremiah. Hebrews chapter eight says that the Old Covenant was ready to vanish away. I believe it disappeared a few years after Hebrews was written.

This is why I believe the New Testament teaches Covenant Eschatology. The New Covenant would be fully realized as the Old Covenant came to an end. This is where AD 70 comes in. The only historical time when the end of the Old Covenant age could have occurred that was imminent to the NT audiences is AD 70.

Making evil act good is called self-righteousness and hypocrisy - this gives birth to a religion and this phenomenon is endemic to many characters in the Bible. You'll find less of this in children until they are corrupted by worldly ways taught to them by adults.

John 12:47-48
47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them

A lot of Christians have often rejected the words of Christ over some conflicting teachings from the Apostles

I think the teachings of the apostles are an extension of, and in harmony with, the words of Christ. The apostles were commissioned and empowered by Jesus. Therefore, they are not only credible, they are inspired by God. I will believe this until there is substantial evidence to change my mind.