Will there be a ‘mass exodus’ of religious groups from the Scouts?

[HannahT]

Most likely, if a gay scout came to a location where people are discussing that they are afraid of being raped by gays in a tent - they aren't going to stay. I mean seriously?! The attitude wouldn't be that hard to figure out. They don't even have to mention being raped in a tent....

Yes, they may move to to a location that seems a bit more tolerant of whom they see themselves in life. A group that won't be afraid of them raping someone in their tent.

I will say I don't understand the same sex attraction myself. It's hard to wrap my mind around. So there it is. I try very hard to 'fear' people that give me reason too.

This fear mongering reminds me of my childhood while our generation was dealing with racism, segregation, civil rights, etc.

You don't have to accept the lifestyle of individuals, and goodness knows I can read you chapter and verse regarding even Christians in that category. I mean all you have to do is read some newspaper to see there are pastors, etc out there with animalistic tendencies as well. What does that say for the 'straight' crowd? Sigh.

I will say that I have encountered enough 'gay' individuals in my life to know that just because they are GAY doesn't mean your likely to get hit on in tent. Although this fear does seem to remind me of stance that if you aren't dressed 'modest' in the rapist's view you basically were asking for it. Yes, it says that 'men' seem to be monsters in disguise with uncontrollable tendencies. As I read here - it seems it doesn't matter their sexual attraction either. BLECK! It would seem that men have uncontrollable tendencies no matter which side their bread is buttered on. (shivers)

If people are afraid of this? I would teach your boys the same lessons we are forced to teach our girls regarding advances that are made towards them in life by unsavory people. I mean if you get out in the real world - gays walk around freely - and they will have to worry about that anyway right? Teach them NOW!

I will tell you I would object to any individual - child or adult - in scouts that are in your face overtly gay or to use a 'straight' term HORNDOG! It's not approriate, and should be called out.

Chances are you know gay people right now, but they haven't 'come out' to you. Don't worry that tendency won't change all that much, because most are well aware of the 'fear factor' they would have deal with if they told.

 

[RDKirk]

Actually, you raise an interesting point: Why should it matter if I was a Christian or not?

If Christianity espouses a set of moral principles which nobody follows, wouldn't it be a failure?

And why would a Christian not acknowledge this, if it were the truth?

Christianity, however, acknowledges that those principles are impossible to follow absolutely, and failure will be frequent.

The issue is with those who have overtly cast those principles aside and still claim to be Christians.

Although there is a concern with coming to consensus on what the principles actually are, as opposed to non-principle concepts. Too often, people have treated the least concept as though it were a principle.

 

[Prayer Circle]

They are hate groups. They are on par with Nazis and the KKK. They do nothing but spread lies, myths, and anti-gay propaganda.

That isn't true.

Clearly you don't comprehend how much harm those groups cause.

I know such groups align themselves with the old testament and the new testament teachings that condemn the sin of homosexuality.

So if those are hate groups, than so too is Judaism and Christianity. And the Bible that contains the condemnation in scriptures would be hate speech.

 

[Prayer Circle]

Indeed -- your parents can't yank you out of the military against your will, either.

That is certainly true.
Though it would be worth a chuckle to read the headline where a parent tried.
I don't care if you're 30 Captain! Come here son,we're leaving right now!

 

[TLK Valentine]

That is certainly true.
Though it would be worth a chuckle to read the headline where a parent tried.
I don't care if you're 30 Captain! Come here son,we're leaving right now!

At least we know that those leaving the military over homosexuality are doing so of their own volition.

It used to be that only gay kids suffered because of their parents' homophobia. Now the straights can feel it, too.

 

[RDKirk]

At least we know that those leaving the military over homosexuality are doing so of their own volition.

It used to be that only gay kids suffered because of their parents' homophobia. Now the straights can feel it, too.

I'm not seeing a mass exodus from public schools, either. And it's not because of money, because when I champion homeschooling among Christians, the most frequent response I get from Christians as to why they don't is, "We are to be a light to the world, so I want my child to be a light to the other children."

Well, that should apply to a Scout troop--where their son can be a light without any of the disadvantages of being in a public school (poor education, bullying, et cetera).

It would make more sense for a Christian to home school his son and then put his son into a Scout troop for socialization and "being a light to the world." Even in a troop with gay scouts, a Christian scout can still be officially recognized for his devotion to Christianity--which is not something that would happen in a public school.

 

[Marius27]

That isn't true.

It's absolutely 100% true. You clearly know nothing about them.

I know such groups align themselves with the old testament and the new testament teachings that condemn the sin of homosexuality.

You guys don't understand the Biblical teachings. You cherry pick verses to support your own prejudices. The Co-Founder of Family Research Council was caught hiring a gay prostitute in Europe. They are giant self-righteous hypocrites.

So if those are hate groups, than so too is Judaism and Christianity.

I've already told you most Jews disagree with your interpretation of the Torah on this issue. Most Christians do too. It's very apparent you've never studied this issue. You blindly follow some corrupted English translation and think no more research is necessary.

 

[Marius27]

Well, if they're sexually active, then their acts are an abomination and they're damned.
Pro-Gay isn't pro-God.

God loves his gay children. Abomination does not exist in Hebrew. Stop butchering the Bible. Unless you're a Levite priest or an Ancient Israelite, the Torah laws do not apply to anyone in the modern world. And the Leviticus prohibition is on pagan prostitution. Not gay people.

You ignore 90% of the Torah laws, yet have the audacity to condemn gay people with one of them? Matthew 7 says God will judge you with the law, which means you will fail.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Christianity, however, acknowledges that those principles are impossible to follow absolutely, and failure will be frequent.

So it's a setup, then.

The issue is with those who have overtly cast those principles aside and still claim to be Christians.

The alternative is to fall into a vicious cycle of attempt, failure, guilt, search for absolution -- lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[RDKirk]

So it's a setup, then.



The alternative is to fall into a vicious cycle of attempt, failure, guilt, search for absolution -- lather, rinse, repeat.

But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. Oh, wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. -- Romans 7

 

[SharonL]

If there is an exodus, for consistency, they should stop buying things at Macy's (or anywhere else for that matter), because they also sell stuff to gay people. And since all sins are the same, they should burn all of their TV's because TV channels show all kinds of sins. There should also be a mass exodus away from every American city, since they are full of gays and other sinners.

These examples are a bit misleading - buying things at Macy's and putting your child at risk of having his future ruined is a little bit different. If you have had a child molested, you would think differently. Why would you put a child at risk for the sake of being politically correct. The scouts will shrink to less than half.

Our children are at risk without putting them in with preditors and making it more difficult on our children.

 

[RDKirk]

These examples are a bit misleading - buying things at Macy's and putting your child at risk of having his future ruined is a little bit different. If you have had a child molested, you would think differently. Why would you put a child at risk for the sake of being politically correct. The scouts will shrink to less than half.

Our children are at risk without putting them in with preditors and making it more difficult on our children.

Those parents should most certainly, then, take their children out of public schools.

 

[SharonL]

Those parents should most certainly, then, take their children out of public schools.

You don't have a choice with public schools, but you do have a choice with the scouts. I've had 2 children molested by people I trusted - I am a little biased and I would be very careful what I allowed my children to participate in.

 

[Rion]

Didn't the Canadian Scouts lose something like 60% of their members when they did this?

 

[RDKirk]

You don't have a choice with public schools, but you do have a choice with the scouts. I've had 2 children molested by people I trusted - I am a little biased and I would be very careful what I allowed my children to participate in.

The family with no choice is very rare. Most often, they have not truly evaluated the options and true priorities.

With regard to people of trust, when I was Scouter, I implored the parents to get more involved. I even subtly threatened them in one letter--I pointed out frankly that they didn't really know me, and owe it to their boys to get to know me better. That didn't really help.

 

[GarfieldJL]

You seem to have suggested that Jews would join the same Scout troops as Christians with their religion as the reason.

That would not happen. Jews might join a scout troop with Christians if the troop maintained a careful non-religious tone. But if the troop practiced any measure of overt Christian "religiosity," no observant Jew is going to join it.

Why couldn't Jews join a Scout Group sponsored by a Christian Church?

Last I checked Jews believe in the same God that Christians do, they just have a disagreement when it comes to Jesus...

If I remember correctly the scouts often talked about believing in God and at the end of the day Christians and Jews worships the same God (considering Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism), so there wouldn't be a conflict.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

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Thread closed. As a reminder, from the rules:

Do not promote homosexuality on Christian Forums. Homosexuality can only be discussed, without promotion, in Christian Communities and Faith Groups. Homosexuality may also be discussed in the Recovery and Ask a Chaplain forums solely for the purpose of seeking support with struggles overcoming same-sex attractions, and homosexual issues.

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