Will 'end time' hoarding bring about Rev 6:6?

[Lulav]

You've seen it, mainly on Youtube vids and a lot of Christian blogs, end time preparedness. There are companies that actually only make shelter foods and other necessities. I was looking into something on Chabad and found this and wondered if it would have any impact on what we read about in Rev 6:6

5 When He broke the third seal, I heard the third living creature saying, "Come." I looked, and behold, a black horse; and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard something like a voice in the center of the four living creatures saying, "A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not damage the oil and the wine."
​

When Iraq walked into Kuwait to take it over, Israel was very worried about Saddam Hussein and what he could do to them. The late Rebbi Schneerson responded to the question as to what Israel should do, since the flimsy answer they came up with was gas masks.

He said:


Concerning gas masks: Every Jewish child who has learned Torah knows the verse, "The eyes of the Lord your G-d are upon the land from the beginning of the year to the end" (Deuteronomy) Ask any child what that means. There is no need to scare people.

Concerning hoarding food: This is forbidden by halacha (Jewish law), as it drives up the price of essential needs.

The Jewish Law on this (halacha) is:

Consumer Protection: Price and Wage Levels
Hoarding
There are times when a merchant withholds a product until a shortage develops in order to cause a price rise. This practice is usury. Rav Achai Gaon (She'iltot Vayigash) adds that there can never be atonement for this sin. The Netziv (Ha'amek She'ela, ad. bc.) explains that they are "robbers of the public" who cannot repent, since they are not able to make compensation to the individuals who suffered as a result of their activities.

The prohibition is quoted in Baba Batra (90b).


"One may not hoard foods which are essential to life, such as wines, oils, and flours. Spices... are permitted. This applies to one who buys in the market, but it is permitted to withhold one's own 'produce. In Eretz Israel it is permitted to hoard for three years, namely the sixth, seventh, and eighth years of the sabbatical cycle. During a drought, one may not hoard even a kav of carobs, so as not to bring a curse on the prices."

6 And I heard something like a voice in the center of the four living creatures saying,
"A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius;
and do not damage the oil and the wine."​

 

[pinacled]

You've seen it, mainly on Youtube vids and a lot of Christian blogs, end time preparedness. There are companies that actually only make shelter foods and other necessities. I was looking into something on Chabad and found this and wondered if it would have any impact on what we read about in Rev 6:6

5 When He broke the third seal, I heard the third living creature saying, "Come." I looked, and behold, a black horse; and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard something like a voice in the center of the four living creatures saying, "A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not damage the oil and the wine."
​

When Iraq walked into Kuwait to take it over, Israel was very worried about Saddam Hussein and what he could do to them. The late Rebbi Schneerson responded to the question as to what Israel should do, since the flimsy answer they came up with was gas masks.

He said:


Concerning gas masks: Every Jewish child who has learned Torah knows the verse, "The eyes of the Lord your G-d are upon the land from the beginning of the year to the end" (Deuteronomy) Ask any child what that means. There is no need to scare people.

Concerning hoarding food: This is forbidden by halacha (Jewish law), as it drives up the price of essential needs.

The Jewish Law on this (halacha) is:

Consumer Protection: Price and Wage Levels
Hoarding
There are times when a merchant withholds a product until a shortage develops in order to cause a price rise. This practice is usury. Rav Achai Gaon (She'iltot Vayigash) adds that there can never be atonement for this sin. The Netziv (Ha'amek She'ela, ad. bc.) explains that they are "robbers of the public" who cannot repent, since they are not able to make compensation to the individuals who suffered as a result of their activities.

The prohibition is quoted in Baba Batra (90b).


"One may not hoard foods which are essential to life, such as wines, oils, and flours. Spices... are permitted. This applies to one who buys in the market, but it is permitted to withhold one's own 'produce. In Eretz Israel it is permitted to hoard for three years, namely the sixth, seventh, and eighth years of the sabbatical cycle. During a drought, one may not hoard even a kav of carobs, so as not to bring a curse on the prices."

6 And I heard something like a voice in the center of the four living creatures saying,
"A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius;
and do not damage the oil and the wine."​

Excellent point to bring up.
The ways of the Kingdom are prosperous.
שׂוּ בַּיּוֹם הַשְּׁמִינִי, עֲצָרֶת: כִּי חֲנֻכַּת הַמִּזְבֵּחַ, עָשׂוּ שִׁבְעַת יָמִים, וְהֶחָג, שִׁבְעַת יָמִים. 9 And on the eighth day they held a solemn assembly; for they kept the dedication of the altar seven days, and the feast seven days.
י וּבְיוֹם עֶשְׂרִים וּשְׁלֹשָׁה לַחֹדֶשׁ הַשְּׁבִיעִי, שִׁלַּח אֶת-הָעָם לְאָהֳלֵיהֶם--שְׂמֵחִים, וְטוֹבֵי לֵב, עַל-הַטּוֹבָה אֲשֶׁר עָשָׂה יְהוָה לְדָוִיד וְלִשְׁלֹמֹה, וּלְיִשְׂרָאֵל עַמּוֹ. 10 And on the three and twentieth day of the seventh month he sent the people away unto their tents, joyful and glad of heart for the goodness that the LORD had shown unto David, and to Solomon, and to Israel His people.
יא וַיְכַל שְׁלֹמֹה אֶת-בֵּית יְהוָה, וְאֶת-בֵּית הַמֶּלֶךְ; וְאֵת כָּל-הַבָּא עַל-לֵב שְׁלֹמֹה, לַעֲשׂוֹת בְּבֵית-יְהוָה וּבְבֵיתוֹ--הִצְלִיחַ. {פ} 11 Thus Solomon finished the house of the LORD, and the king's house; and all that came into Solomon's heart to make in the house of the LORD, and in his own house, he prosperously effected. {P}
יב וַיֵּרָא יְהוָה אֶל-שְׁלֹמֹה, בַּלָּיְלָה; וַיֹּאמֶר לוֹ, שָׁמַעְתִּי אֶת-תְּפִלָּתֶךָ, וּבָחַרְתִּי בַּמָּקוֹם הַזֶּה לִי, לְבֵית זָבַח. 12 And the LORD appeared to Solomon by night, and said unto him: 'I have heard thy prayer, and have chosen this place to Myself for a house of sacrifice.
יג הֵן אֶעֱצֹר הַשָּׁמַיִם וְלֹא-יִהְיֶה מָטָר, וְהֵן-אֲצַוֶּה עַל-חָגָב לֶאֱכוֹל הָאָרֶץ; וְאִם-אֲשַׁלַּח דֶּבֶר, בְּעַמִּי. 13 If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locust to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among My people;
יד וְיִכָּנְעוּ עַמִּי אֲשֶׁר נִקְרָא-שְׁמִי עֲלֵיהֶם, וְיִתְפַּלְלוּ וִיבַקְשׁוּ פָנַי, וְיָשֻׁבוּ, מִדַּרְכֵיהֶם הָרָעִים--וַאֲנִי, אֶשְׁמַע מִן-הַשָּׁמַיִם, וְאֶסְלַח לְחַטָּאתָם, וְאֶרְפָּא אֶת-אַרְצָם. 14 if My people, upon whom My name is called, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek My face, and turn from their evil ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
טו עַתָּה, עֵינַי יִהְיוּ פְתֻחוֹת, וְאָזְנַי, קַשֻּׁבוֹת--לִתְפִלַּת, הַמָּקוֹם הַזֶּה. 15 Now Mine eyes shall be open, and Mine ears attent, unto the prayer that is made in this place.
טז וְעַתָּה, בָּחַרְתִּי וְהִקְדַּשְׁתִּי אֶת-הַבַּיִת הַזֶּה, לִהְיוֹת-שְׁמִי שָׁם, עַד-עוֹלָם; וְהָיוּ עֵינַי וְלִבִּי שָׁם, כָּל-הַיָּמִים. 16 For now have I chosen and hallowed this house, that My name may be there for ever; and Mine eyes and My heart shall be there perpetually.

 

[pat34lee]

How about Joseph? Or Noah, for that matter.

 

[Lulav]

How about Joseph? Or Noah, for that matter.

Hi Pat, I'm sorry I don't see how your post relates to the OP? Would you mind reiterating it?

 

[pat34lee]

Hi Pat, I'm sorry I don't see how your post relates to the OP? Would you mind reiterating it?

Because of Joseph, a whole kingdom hoarded food for seven years to prepare for a coming famine.
Noah probably had every corner of the ark loaded with grain, seed and whatever food stuff that they would need for possibly several years.

Of course, in both cases there was nowhere else to go for supplies when the main food sources dried up.

 

[sahjimira]

Because of Joseph, a whole kingdom hoarded food for seven years to prepare for a coming famine.
Noah probably had every corner of the ark loaded with grain, seed and whatever food stuff that they would need for possibly several years.

Of course, in both cases there was nowhere else to go for supplies when the main food sources dried up.

 

[sahjimira]

I believe Joseph was told by God and probably Noah as well. Noah at the least knew he would b cooped up for some time!

 

[Lulav]

Hi Pat, I'm sorry I don't see how your post relates to the OP? Would you mind reiterating it?

Because of Joseph, a whole kingdom hoarded food for seven years to prepare for a coming famine.
Noah probably had every corner of the ark loaded with grain, seed and whatever food stuff that they would need for possibly several years.

Of course, in both cases there was nowhere else to go for supplies when the main food sources dried up.

Oh, I see, you are referring to stockpiling which is not the same as hoarding.

What Joseph did was save a whole nation from starvation. This was after he interpreted the King's dream of seven fat cows and seven lean cows and explained it meant that there would be seven years of over abundance and seven years of famine. This actually helped everyone to get a portion to meet their needs and kept people from hoarding.


And Noah did as anyone would when taking a trip, just in a hyper mode. He needed to feed his family and the animals G-d gave him charge over. I'm not so sure that the ark carried all that food except for the people, some say the animals went in a type of hibernation while on the boat. Still that is not hoarding.

Hoarding is when someone stores up for themselves goods which makes it harder for others to obtain and possibly could starve That is why it is against the Torah to do so.

Yeshua said: "But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more clothe you? You of little faith! 31"Do not worry then, saying, 'What will we eat?' or 'What will we drink?' or 'What will we wear for clothing?' 32"For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.

The main question is will there be a famine of food because of the judgements upon the earth or will hoarding bring it about with all the doomsday things going around?



Hoarding - Civil unrest or natural disaster may lead people to hoard foodstuffs, water, gasoline and other essentials which they believe, rightly or wrongly, will soon be in short supply. Survivalists, also known as preppers, often stockpile large supplies of these items in anticipation of a large-scale disaster event.

 

[pat34lee]

The main question is will there be a famine of food because of the judgements upon the earth or will hoarding bring it about with all the doomsday things going around?

Hoarding - Civil unrest or natural disaster may lead people to hoard foodstuffs, water, gasoline and other essentials which they believe, rightly or wrongly, will soon be in short supply. Survivalists, also known as preppers, often stockpile large supplies of these items in anticipation of a large-scale disaster event.

One other difference. Intent. If we prepare (hoard or stockpile), we must be ready to use what we have for others as well as ourselves.

We know that one of the horsemen coming represents famine, so that will happen whether or not anyone prepares for it. We also know that if the infrastructure of the US and other nations collapse, there will be mass starvation as food rots because it won't be delivered where it is needed.

There is no way to totally prepare for even the last three and a half years of the tribulation. All we can do is prepare for a short time, such as during and after a natural disaster, and then wait for the Father to provide.

 

[visionary]

Noah didn't wait on a big boat to appear...he BUILT it.

 

[Hoshiyya]

Concerning hoarding food: This is forbidden by halacha (Jewish law), as it drives up the price of essential needs.

The Jewish Law on this (halacha) is:

Consumer Protection: Price and Wage Levels
Hoarding
There are times when a merchant withholds a product until a shortage develops in order to cause a price rise. This practice is usury. Rav Achai Gaon (She'iltot Vayigash) adds that there can never be atonement for this sin. The Netziv (Ha'amek She'ela, ad. bc.) explains that they are "robbers of the public" who cannot repent, since they are not able to make compensation to the individuals who suffered as a result of their activities.

The prohibition is quoted in Baba Batra (90b).


"One may not hoard foods which are essential to life, such as wines, oils, and flours. Spices... are permitted. This applies to one who buys in the market, but it is permitted to withhold one's own 'produce. In Eretz Israel it is permitted to hoard for three years, namely the sixth, seventh, and eighth years of the sabbatical cycle. During a drought, one may not hoard even a kav of carobs, so as not to bring a curse on the prices."

"There are times when a merchant withholds a product until a shortage develops in order to cause a price rise. This practice is usury. Rav Achai Gaon (She'iltot Vayigash) adds that there can never be atonement for this sin. The Netziv (Ha'amek She'ela, ad. bc.) explains that they are "robbers of the public" who cannot repent, since they are not able to make compensation to the individuals who suffered as a result of their activities. "

This text and the subsequent quote, as you note, is not dealing with stockpiling of things for private use, but rather is condemning the creation of artificial shortages for the sake of driving up prices. Hence it would apply to big corporations today, not to apocalyptic individuals.

 

[Lulav]

But cannot those unsure and not fully trusting in G-d to provide hoard up food that others could use and that could cause a shortage?

 

[pat34lee]

But cannot those unsure and not fully trusting in G-d to provide hoard up food that others could use and that could cause a shortage?

No. There are not enough hoarders to make a dent in the amount of food being grown today. Famine will come only when enough food cannot be grown and shipped in a timely fashion. Either the fields will be bare or the food will be sitting there and rotting.

 

[Hoshiyya]

But cannot those unsure and not fully trusting in G-d to provide hoard up food that others could use and that could cause a shortage?

In a very small community, perhaps. But if say 1% or less of the population in the US buys extra canned food for a short phase of their lives and then move on, what harm is done ?

Buying canned food is a good, prudent idea, even without any reference to war. Animals stockpile, and they do not worry about war.

I think that if you are truly elect, you can trust in God to provide miraculously, but most people are better off providing for themselves with their own arm.

There is a time/situation to trust in God to provide miraculously, and a time/situation to trust in God to provide what you need beforehand (hence storing up).

God sent manna on the 6th day, but not on Shabbat. People were supposed to gather double in order to have enough for the duration of Shabbat. To expect God to provide miraculously on the 7th day would be to simply dismiss his commandment, in that case.

 

[Chicken Little]

I believe in preparing , but not so much in hoarding.
I have a green house I grow lots of our food in and I have animals that we eat..
I just found out that my native ducks are said to be unclean.. how could I have guessed that .
don't ask me what someone thinks that some ducks are clean and others aren't clean .
that is why I don't do the food laws, it doesn't make sense because it doesn't have too .. I'm adapted to new world foods and I don't do good on most of the things european can eat and will stash away , they just make me sick as a dog if I eat those foods .
so I grow most of our food and meat ..
I stash Gluten free goodies and mixes and store some corn mostly for the kids so they can get some gooey things with out wheat once in awhile.
and we can eat a lot of things in the woods , now some of them are course hard to eat and not great like stuff in the store , but some are yummy. Jerusalem artichokes are yum , swamp rose/ marshmallow families .. makes nice addition to
soups as a thickener some even have a okra like pod , and lots and lots more .. so I don't need to hide tons of food I have food hiding all around me that no one would guess is food. and they won't pick it up and haul it off either. they won't want it . it looks just like weeds. well it is weeds!

 

[Aldebaran]

I believe in preparing , but not so much in hoarding.

Same here! I live alone, so I don't need all that much. I simply buy what I already use and can be stored long-term, such as canned and dry items, and then I put them in the back of my stock and then rotate my stock as I use things normally so items don't get old and expired. If a collapse of society happened, I think I have about 3 or 4 months worth. But that's if I use it conservatively. Even at 2 months, I'd be better off than anyone who only buys what they need to get by for til the end of the current week.

 

[Chicken Little]

http://modernfarmer.com/2015/06/wait-is-this-weird-duck-kosher-or-not/

and they eat ticks !!

 

[visionary]

Chicken little.. I think you need to start a thread and teach about eating "wild".

 

[Chicken Little]

Chicken little.. I think you need to start a thread and teach about eating "wild".

Hi visionary. well you really need to get a book for your county that has wild eatables.
because everyplace is so different i mean very different . some area will get worse and worse droughts . I mean every areas has an amelanchier but which one is available to which areas is important to understand . only maybe some sites on the net and or nurseries or cooperative extensions know what you need to plant for that elevation and zone and environment. I guess I can try .
I spent 10 years now learning my areas really well. he said prepare so I did. I ask myself how my ancestors would have prepared and went and did what I figured they would do.

 

[visionary]

Shadbush, shadwood or shadblow, serviceberry or sarvisberry, or just sarvis, wild pear, ...??