Wife might be cheating, might not...

In Limbo

New Member
Oct 19, 2015
4
0
61
✟15,114.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I'll list a few facts and then will follow with some questions.
* Me: 50, wife: 50, married 25, and kids: 20 and 20 (all rounded to nearest 5).
* About a year ago: Wife was a totally devoted lifelong Catholic, even started writing a book to promote Catholicism (not an idle thing as she has actually published some books that have made us money). Her departure from Catholicism and theism in general didn't seem to cause her any grief. FWIW I'm a nondenominational Christian and attend church regularly.
* About 6 months ago: Turned down an opportunity to visit our children in another state to go to a 3 day dance workshop by herself.
* Has changed her email password 5 times in 2015. Has started deleting emails in the last couple of months. I went through the last year of the emails, and didn't see anything bad.
* Changed her Facebook password 3 times about 3 months ago and refuses to share it with me, but will let me on her account if she logs me in and logs it out right afterwards. She used to never log out of Facebook. I haven't seen anything bad on her Facebook (a couple times I managed to check more thoroughly late at night).
* Set up a gmail account. I didn't see anything suspicious.
* I noticed she had stopped wearing her diamond for at least a week. She was wearing a really thin gold band that was hard to see. Out of the blue she held up her hand and said she had not been wearing her diamond for 2 weeks, because we were doing some manual labor (about 5 days worth in 2 weeks). She had picked up the ring and put it away one morning, rather than put it on, even though she was going to her office job. Since we were going to a dance that night I asked her to wear it for the dance. She did that night, but didn't wear it the next day.
* All of our cell phone bills for 2015 are missing, and 9 of 12 for 2014 are missing. I spot checked other bills and they are all there. We use our phones for business and generally keep all business related receipts for taxes. She also has a suspiciously long gap in voice messages on her cell phone, maybe those are getting deleted, too. I went through her cell phone logs, voice messages, and text messages (including deleted ones). I didn't see anything suspicious. She also set up an online cell phone account recently. I logged into that, and didn't see anything suspicious. It shows we are supposed to be getting paper bills sent to our house.
* The morning after I checked and found missing the cell phone bills, she asked what I had been looking for in our office. It wasn't like I ransacked the place, I looked in one folder, and pulled out just one bag of the previous year's taxes. I told her I was looking for a cell phone bill. She asked if that was all, I said yes. This is subjective: That night at dance class she looked rather grim (usually she has a huge smile on her face during the class) and seemed troubled at dinner. I had to work some after the class and dinner and she texted me a picture of baking chocolate chip cookies (first time in our marriage that I recall). She also put on a much sexier night shirt that night. Interestingly, she has been faithfully wearing her diamond ever since this day.
* One night I was using Facebook with her “blessing.” She crept downstairs, crept up behind me, and said “Aha! You are looking at profiles of people in our dance class!” I showed her the last 5 pages or so of history that disagreed with what she said. The next morning she said it was creepy how I was looking at Facebook (using her account). What? I told her no, she was literally creeping down the stairs and creeping up behind me, that was “creepy”! My daugher witnessed this exchange, and later told me mom was rather emotional about it.
* We got a message and she said my girlfriend had called (first time she has ever said that, joking or otherwise). It was the pharmacy, and for the record I have been 100% faithful to my marriage.
* On the flip side, she is generally being nice to me, sex is good, and dance class has been great fun
* Both of our kids are out of the house
* In 25 years of marriage, this is the first time I have had a serious worry she might be cheating. I have never checked up on phone records or similar things before, so I don't think I'm a generally suspicious kind of person.

I'm sure I missed some stuff. I could explain away any single item, but all these things together are getting harder and harder to explain. I don't have absolute proof of anything. Here are my questions:

Does anyone else know of statistics about leaving one's faith for reasons of infidelity? I was able to figure out it is really rare for a 50 year old female to become atheist, and we have friends that became atheist when they started cheating on their spouse.

What is up with pointing out she was not wearing her diamond? Was she trying to make a statement? Get me to react? Try to see if I knew anything? Feeling guilty and trying to justify it?

It is very curious that it looks like she is trying to cover her tracks, but I haven't found anything. Opinions? Here are some of my theories:

* Has a 2nd cell phone and/or hidden email account, but is overcompensating in trying to hide it.
* Is really that good at deleting everything incriminating (I doubt it, unless she had some expert help)
* Just innocently started changing passwords and deleting things (hard to imagine, but I'm trying for a complete list)

Any thoughts on her reaction to my looking for a cell phone bill? She has to realize on some level it is likely I figured out a bunch of cell phone bills are missing.

Creeping up on me while I was using her Facebook account was weird. What bad thing could I possibly be doing on her account? Why would it be any problem if I were looking at the pages of our dance class friends? What's weird is I don't see anything on her account that is suspicious, and she lets me look at her account, albeit in a supervised mode. Should I be looking on other people's pages for incriminating things? Any suggestions on what to look for that way?

Strategy:

The way I feel at this moment is I want our marriage to work, and hope we could work past an infidelity event. That's easy to say now while I have some doubt, I realize it might be tough if I came across some hard evidence.

So far much of the evidence has just dropped in my lap, or been a reasonable thing for me to look at. I have told no one else of my suspicions except for one very good friend who I can trust. I have not confronted her on anything or let on in any direct way that I have my suspicions. I feel like I'm at a bit of a crossroads:

* Wait for something more definitive to drop into my lap
* Keep up this relatively passive level of surveillance
* Go more active and put a GPS tracker on her car.
* Wait for something more definitive, and then do things like GPS on the car.

The 3rd and 4th item would be hard to explain away if it was ever found.

D-day might not be under my control. She is very good at reading people and has an uncanny knack for detecting when I'm withholding information. She might actually initiate D-Day.

So any advice for me? Since I've found nothing to date, should I give up on surveillance and act like all is good (believe me, there is a part of me that wants to do exactly that!)? On the other hand, there is a big part of me that can't stand this uncertainty! Suppose I GPS and find nothing? At some point of finding nothing should I talk to her about my suspicions, if ever? Should I demand Facebook password access? I feel like I set a bad precedent by acting like it was nothing to not have the password, especially since we have shared passwords for all 25 years of our marriage,, but I realize I might trigger her hiding things even more aggressively if I push for more access.

I might be getting ahead of myself here, but her religious organization employer would likely fire her and the OM if there was and they found out about infidelity. Infidelity is also against the law in our state. Should I hold onto these cards, or should they be played on or right after D-Day?

Anyway, everyone please just go ahead and say what you think is most true. I'd rather know things, or hear what's most likely, than pretend they don't exist. I was almost weak with relief when I figured out how to read deleted text messages on her phone, but then I couldn't find anything and am still in limbo. Likewise I was able to get our phone records online, but couldn't spot anything suspicious.
 

ValleyGal

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2012
5,775
1,829
✟114,245.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Divorced
Why not just ask her rather than be all in her business and getting suspicious? If you talk to her directly, you should be able to get a sense of how honest her replies are. If you decide to do this, simply talk about your observations. You could start out by asking where the cell phone bills are. If she has a reasonable explanation, you could either just leave it alone, or you could let her know that your marriage is having a bit of trouble and you want to resolve it - and yes, your marriage has trouble, whether it's her possible cheating or your suspicion. Either way, something is wrong and you want to resolve it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: All4Christ
Upvote 0

All4Christ

✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙
CF Senior Ambassador
Supporter
Mar 11, 2003
11,682
8,018
PA
Visit site
✟1,013,227.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I'll try to respond more fully, but even though I have nothing I am hiding from my husband, I would likely get defensive if my husband was looking into everything that much and analyzing everything I'm doing, not to mention logging into accounts for the specific purpose of trying to find indiscretions. I can't say I fully understand the causes for why you started investigating it all, but I can say I would imagine it'd be a typical result to be upset by someone digging into everything that closely on a regular basis.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hetta
Upvote 0

All4Christ

✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙
CF Senior Ambassador
Supporter
Mar 11, 2003
11,682
8,018
PA
Visit site
✟1,013,227.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Have you just asked her directly about all of these things?

Why not just ask her rather than be all in her business and getting suspicious? If you talk to her directly, you should be able to get a sense of how honest her replies are. If you decide to do this, simply talk about your observations. You could start out by asking where the cell phone bills are. If she has a reasonable explanation, you could either just leave it alone, or you could let her know that your marriage is having a bit of trouble and you want to resolve it - and yes, your marriage has trouble, whether it's her possible cheating or your suspicion. Either way, something is wrong and you want to resolve it.

Agreed 100% with both of these.
 
Upvote 0

NothingIsImpossible

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2015
5,615
3,254
✟274,922.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Really I don't see anything that would say shes cheating. Maybe just a bit of paranoia. I mean it seems you are REALLY going through alot of her stuff at this point. Sometimes people can become so obsessed with the idea of they might be cheated on that they don't know when to stop looking. And it will destroy the marriage. Changing passwords is common though in todays world. And you said your sex life is good. If she was cheating I doubt it would be good. If she logs you into FB then obviously she is allowing access. I'd just ask her whats going on if you feel something is up. DOn't ask "Are you cheating on me?", ask "Are you happy with our marriage honey? Could I do anything to change things for the better?". But be warned if you are wrong and she finds out what you are doing.... no good will come from it and odds are she will lose trust in you and restrict your access even more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: All4Christ
Upvote 0

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I have to say that I admire how organized you are in your post (just as an aside :) ).

I can't really respond to what she could be/couldn't be doing, but there's obviously a distrust between you. The best antidote I know for that is to get to know one another again---to ask her about her thoughts on faith (w/o judgement or defensiveness). Leaving a long-held belief system is like starting all over--and it *is* scary....and there is a sense that others could be judging decisions (so it's common for a wall to be erected). I agree with NII (above)....maybe approach a conversations like, "I've been feeling as if we aren't as close as we could be.......do you feel the same way?"
 
Upvote 0

In Limbo

New Member
Oct 19, 2015
4
0
61
✟15,114.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Thanks all for the responses. It sounds like people are recommending to take a step back and not worry. While that's easier said than done, I am planning to pause active data mining for now.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com is a place devoted to the issue of infidelity. That site and many others say to not say a word until you have undeniable proof. Per that advice, you don't just talk to your spouse about worries or suspicions. Also, good sex or spouse being nice, unfortunately does not disprove an affair. Often cheaters are nicer to their spouses than before.

For the record, it was not a James Bond effort to get this information. Most of it was a one-time check, not a regular watching. My wife asked me to grab a file off of her email, and someone that had never ever changed any of her passwords had a new one. It was interesting to note someone that had never deleted emails had suddenly started routinely deleting all her emails. Becoming atheist and changing the Facebook password was just announced to me. In the course of our business I checked her voice mail for any customer messages (we check each others' phones regularly this way), and it was interesting to note all the recent voice mail messages had been deleted, for the first time ever. I didn't say a word about her not wearing her diamond, she announced that to me. All this happened in a fairly short time span. There are some more things I didn't mention. I pretty much assumed I was being a worrywart until finding all the cell phone bills were missing, and getting the sense that it worried her I wanted a cell phone bill. It seems like a lot of smoke for there to be no fire.

In 25 years of marriage, we have had a few hard times and mostly good times, but I never seriously worried about infidelity. It feels to me like she has a sudden interest in hiding or controlling communications.

I have tried to talk to her about the atheism thing. Her two arguments (Yes, she only gives 2 reasons) are simple and she gets emotionally defensive no matter how gently I try to point out the other side of the coin. I hadn't thought about this before, but I suppose it is possible she is communicating with atheists and trying to hide that.

I agree this is an issue. The atheism thing was a hard blow, but the Bible is clear about loving your wife, and that Christians do not divorce nonbeliever spouses (though it can go the other way), but a christian is not expected to tolerate infidelity. I am trying to be the best christian and husband I can be, and I really do hope it is just me being worried and that there are logical reasons for suddenly starting to delete emails and voice mails, and not wearing one's diamond, and the missing cell phone bills. I had thought about ValleyGal's suggestion to just ask about the cell phone bills, we really should have those for taxes, maybe that would be a part-way measure to communicate.
 
Upvote 0

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I have tried to talk to her about the atheism thing. Her two arguments (Yes, she only gives 2 reasons) are simple and she gets emotionally defensive no matter how gently I try to point out the other side of the coin. I hadn't thought about this before, but I suppose it is possible she is communicating with atheists and trying to hide that.

I agree this is an issue. The atheism thing was a hard blow, but the Bible is clear about loving your wife, and that Christians do not divorce nonbeliever spouses (though it can go the other way), but a christian is not expected to tolerate infidelity. I am trying to be the best christian and husband I can be, and I really do hope it is just me being worried and that there are logical reasons for suddenly starting to delete emails and voice mails, and not wearing one's diamond, and the missing cell phone bills.

I think a person that leaves their faith is going to feel "judged" by those that are still in the faith. It really does seem that it is causing a wall to form between you two, though. I wonder if you can approach it that way? Saying something like, "I accept your personal decisions are just that---YOURS....and I don't want for you to feel alienated from me.....I'm willing to hear your thoughts on the topic, if you're willing to share. I think it will help us to not feel so distant." That's probably the one skill that I feel is lacking in our culture---the ability to discuss with those of different beliefs. In marriage it's especially crucial.
 
  • Like
Reactions: All4Christ
Upvote 0

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Here's an article for you (HIH):

http://johnpavlovitz.com/2015/09/04...s-changing-faith-or-help-them-navigate-yours/

Article said:
Faith moves.

It is never static. Whether we are religious or not, even in the times we feel most settled in our beliefs, things are always shifting. As we head through time and space we are renovated by circumstances and experiences, by people and relationships and we are constantly, gradually being altered. Immobility is a myth.

One of the greatest tensions a marriage, family, or friendship can ever face is one member’s evolving spirituality. Most commonly, someone finds their once iron-clad, orderly religion suddenly in doubt and they gradually (or quite quickly) become less rigid and more open to new ideas, even other faith traditions. They might begin to dissect the creeds they once accepted as givens or start looking at the Bible differently or even question the very reality of God.

Maybe it would even be helpful to share this article with your wife? It may be a good conversation starter. It may even help her identify some of what she's feeling (maybe she *does* have guilt over this and doesn't realize it).
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Brianlear

Living life in the pacific NW
Mar 31, 2012
239
57
✟9,394.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You sound a bit paranoid, but it also sounds like your marriage has extremely low levels of trust and security. Also, why are you freaking out over a ring. It's just a symbol, you two are married whether a ring is on your finger or not. You should both be able to take off and on your rings at will with no bearing on your marriage.
 
Upvote 0

HannahT

Newbie
Supporter
Apr 9, 2013
6,027
2,422
✟458,831.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
(scratches head) You printed your phone bills out, and most people realize you can do. I mean you mentioned that yourself, and you are wrapping yourself up in a pretzel over it. I don't get what the big deal is with the ring either.

You haven't found anything, and yet you seem like you are on a hunting trip to find something. I don't understand WHY you think your wife doesn't know that. That would totally creep me out personally, and honestly would make me suspicious of him if all of a sudden you started to act out the way you are. It may even make me be overly cautious, and make me feel you are unsafe to me.

Why are you going out of your way to make her scared of you? No offense, but I have to wonder what you are hiding personally. Something change in your life? New medicine? You need to figure out why you are so overly paranoid, because if you don't? You may destroy your relationship, and infidelity doesn't even have to be a factor.
 
Upvote 0

In Limbo

New Member
Oct 19, 2015
4
0
61
✟15,114.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Believe me, I would be very happy to be proved wrong and that I was paranoid!

Here's the latest. There was/is a lot of phone activity with a particular man -- no big secret, my wife would talk to him regularly from our house and tell me about the calls. I didn't worry about that as I know they do collaborative projects, and he had moved out of state well over a year ago. My wife told me they were doing phone meetings. Out of character she has been staying late at work on Mondays for a few months, and would use this opportunity to have "phone meetings" with this guy. She used to do calls with him at our house or during normal business hours at work, but I figured whatever, she is working late to talk to him. Then she let it slip that she has been meeting with him in person! I said I had thought the guy had moved away, my wife said he did, but that he flew into our state every week to be with his wife and daughter, who haven't moved away with him yet.

That might be OK, and innocent enough. I truly hope that is the case. These things are curious:

She told me she had a phone meeting with him the previous week, but when I asked her a week later about it she changed her story and said they had met in person that time, too.

The guy is allegedly in town to be with his wife and daughter. I find it very curious that he elects to spend time with my wife, at her job, from about 5 p.m. to as late as about 9 p.m. Meeting with my wife is a perfectly legitimate job function for them both, why not meet during the day while his wife is at work and his daughter is in school? The stuff they meet about can be easily be done via phone (and indeed for about a year had been done by phone). Why not use the time when out of state and away from family to call? Why take time away from his wife and daughter to meet with my wife in person after normal work hours?

My wife is also taking time away from me to do this -- I'll finish work and it'll be hours before she gets home on Monday nights. She gets home early the nights this guy is in the other state. She is the one that told me the guy is in town to be with his wife and daughter -- I'm surprised my wife doesn't "send him home" and arrange better times to meet, or just do things by phone, just to be nice to the guy's wife and daughter, if nothing else.

Again, I really hope it is just business talk between them. Finding out about meeting with this guy is something that just dropped into my lap, my wife just said it (maybe it slipped out?). There are more corroborative details I haven't shared. Please pray for me that I am wise and full of grace. Something that is hard to communicate via typing is that uneasy feeling that something is not right. I haven't been worried like this before in decades of marriage. For example, my wife visited a former boyfriend and his wife in a foreign country -- I wasn't worried. Now I am. I had actually felt better for a while with the posts here and not finding (or not realizing) anything concrete.
 
Upvote 0

Odetta

Thankful for grace
Jan 24, 2014
913
239
55
Georgia
✟32,318.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
You know, it's hard to say. I used to be in a job where I worked late many a night when there was a looming deadline, and 95% of my collaborators were men. So to take a mental break, we'd go out to dinner some nights, and sometimes it would be one on one. I never thought anything of it, and my husband was in the same industry (and for a time the same company), so he knew what was up. At least he never indicated he was upset about it, so if he was he never said anything. On the other hand, I remember when my dad had lots of business trips to Colorado for a while, including one that somehow had to be scheduled over the New Year's holiday. Yeah, he ended up divorcing my mom and marrying his business "colleague" who lived in Colorado.

Have you talked with your wife about your concerns? About why aren't they meeting during the day?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I agree about asking your wife directly---but I'd frame the conversation to be more about not feeling secure about these meetings and that you would like to have the security of knowing that it's definitely work when these things come up (not making it specifically about the meetings, but more about the lack of trust between you). Does that make sense? Because that's the main issue--that there's a disconnect between you two and if the meetings were to come to a stop today, the lack of trust would still be there. Maybe then talk about ways the two of you can build up trust and security.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

sdmsanjose

Regular Member
Jun 19, 2006
3,772
405
Arizona
✟23,684.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You have listed enough things that your wife does that are sometimes associated with betrayal. I would take actions that would give you more information because you are troubled. Do not apologize to anyone for going into James Bond mode because your wife has really made some changes that are signs of a cheater. I know that she maybe innocent but you as her husband need to have more certainty that your wife is not cheating on you because you are upset about these changes.

Make a plan to reward her if you are wrong and she is totally innocent but also make a plan for YOU if she is guilty.
 
Upvote 0