Why Would Anyone Convert to Islam?

[sarahsivousplait]

Well in that case...

...
...

Sorry couldn't think of a witty reply. I promise I do have a sense of humor.

 

[Yoder777]

This book seems interesting:
Prayer of the Heart in Christian and Sufi Mysticism: Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee PhD: 9781890350352: Amazon.com: Books

Guiding the reader through the stages of mystical prayer—a way to create a living relationship with the Divine within the heart—this book draws upon Christian and Sufi sources such as St. Teresa of Avila, ‘Attâr, St. John of the Cross, and Rûmî. Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee describes the stages of prayer: how prayer is first born of need, but then takes one deep within the heart, into the stages of union and ecstasy. Through mystical prayer, one is drawn into the silence of real communion with God. Here, in the silence within the heart, a meeting and merging takes place that carries one beyond the self into the mystery of divine presence. This exploration delves into the secret of how to pray without ceasing, in which prayer becomes alive within the heart, and includes a chapter on the need to pray for the well-being of the Earth. It brings together the Christian and Sufi mystical traditions and will benefit any practitioner of prayer who is drawn to discover a relationship with God within their heart.
Prayer of the Heart in Christian and Sufi Mysticism: Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee PhD: 9781890350352: Amazon.com: Books

It might take a certain level of open-mindedness to see God's truth no matter where it's found to read a book like this.

 

[KWCrazy]

I knew I could not join a religion that preaches violence and oppresses people. I was afraid Islam was some kind of switch-and-bait deal where they get you with the sweet stuff and then slap chains on you. Not so at all. It is very just and common-sense to me. As for the woman-stigma stuff, I just don't see that in Islam.

True. Islam holds women in the highest regard, as evidenced in the Koran.

Tabari IX:113 "Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an."
　
Tabari I:280 "Allah said, 'It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.' Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid."
　
Bukhari:V1B22N28 "The Prophet said: 'I was shown the Hell Fire and the majority of its dwellers were women who are disbelievers or ungrateful.' When asked what they were ungrateful for, the Prophet answered, 'All the favors done for them by their husbands.'"
　
Muslim:B1N142 "'O womenfolk, you should ask for forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell.' A wise lady said: Why is it, Allah's Apostle, that women comprise the bulk of the inhabitants of Hell? The Prophet observed: 'You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. You lack common sense, fail in religion and rob the wisdom of the wise.' Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense? The Prophet replied, 'Your lack of common sense can be determined from the fact that the evidence of two women is equal to one man. That is a proof.'"
　
Qur'an 4:15 "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them."
　
Bukhari:V3B48N826 "The Prophet said, 'Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?' The women said, 'Yes.' He said, 'This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind.'"

Qur'an 24:6 "And for those who launch a charge against their wives, accusing them, but have no witnesses or evidence, except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing four times) by Allah that he is the one speaking the truth."

source

 

[MKJ]

True. Islam holds women in the highest regard, as evidenced in the Koran.

Tabari IX:113 "Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an."
　
Tabari I:280 "Allah said, 'It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.' Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid."
　
Bukhari:V1B22N28 "The Prophet said: 'I was shown the Hell Fire and the majority of its dwellers were women who are disbelievers or ungrateful.' When asked what they were ungrateful for, the Prophet answered, 'All the favors done for them by their husbands.'"
　
Muslim:B1N142 "'O womenfolk, you should ask for forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell.' A wise lady said: Why is it, Allah's Apostle, that women comprise the bulk of the inhabitants of Hell? The Prophet observed: 'You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. You lack common sense, fail in religion and rob the wisdom of the wise.' Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense? The Prophet replied, 'Your lack of common sense can be determined from the fact that the evidence of two women is equal to one man. That is a proof.'"
　
Qur'an 4:15 "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them."
　
Bukhari:V3B48N826 "The Prophet said, 'Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?' The women said, 'Yes.' He said, 'This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind.'"

Qur'an 24:6 "And for those who launch a charge against their wives, accusing them, but have no witnesses or evidence, except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing four times) by Allah that he is the one speaking the truth."

source

You know, proof-texting the Bible can bring up some doozies too.

 

[KWCrazy]

You know, proof-texting the Bible can bring up some doozies too.

Can you find a prophet who married a six year old when he was 53?
Can you find a prophet who preaches that all who refuse to convert to Christianity must be killed or enslaved?
Can you find a prophet who was an admitted thief and murderer AFTER becoming a prophet?
Can you find a prophet of God who orders his followers to violate the 10 Commandments?
Can you find a prophet who preaches hatred and murder?

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the light. NO MAN comes unto the father but by me." The Koran lies profusely about Jesus, and states that Mohammed is the prophet. By definition, no Muslim will ever enter the Kingdom of Heaven. It is NOT a beautiful, alternative religion. It's the false religion of a false prophet who leads his followers to damnation.

That is the word of the Lord. A Christian website should represent the teachings of Christ. Christ warned about the false prophets who would come after him and who would deceive many. There are many Christian religions which have different beliefs, but they do at least share the common belief in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Without the sacrifice of Jesus Christ you might as well worship grapefruit and promote that as a holy alternative religion. Either way, it's the pathway to destruction, not Heaven.

 

[buzuxi02]

Well in the case of the 72 virgins, they may not even be human woman. There described as having really big eyes with some translations saying 'big black eyes"(52.20)

But I have to take back what I said about not knowing whether these virgins are all women. The Koran does state they have big breasts (78.33)

 

[KWCrazy]

But I have to take back what I said about not knowing whether these virgins are all women. The Koran does state they have big breasts (78.33)

So do Sumo wrestlers.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

They could be transvestite virgins...they never got specific ya know! LOL

Well in the case of the 72 virgins, they may not even be human woman. There described as having really big eyes with some translations saying 'big black eyes"(52.20)

But I have to take back what I said about not knowing whether these virgins are all women. The Koran does state they have big breasts (78.33)

 

[E.C.]

Well in the case of the 72 virgins, they may not even be human woman. There described as having really big eyes with some translations saying 'big black eyes"(52.20)

But I have to take back what I said about not knowing whether these virgins are all women. The Koran does state they have big breasts (78.33)

Two things.

1) With Arabs, the bigger and blacker the eyes, the more beautiful.

2) With pretty much the entire Islamic World (minus the Levant), "Men are for pleasure, women are for procreation", says the few soldiers I've met who have been to Iraq and/or Afghanistan. In Saudi drag races the prize is typically not money, but the "companionship" of any male in the stands at the discretion of the winner. I don't think I need to say more.

 

[ArmyMatt]

2) With pretty much the entire Islamic World (minus the Levant), "Men are for pleasure, women are for procreation", says the few soldiers I've met who have been to Iraq and/or Afghanistan. In Saudi drag races the prize is typically not money, but the "companionship" of any male in the stands at the discretion of the winner. I don't think I need to say more.

I know I am not near Arabs, but this is very true where I am. I have been "taught" by folks how to have sex with more off the wall things than I can count.

 

[buzuxi02]

1) With Arabs, the bigger and blacker the eyes, the more beautiful.

You sure? What do you mean by black eyes? If I remember correctly both Arafat and the late King Hussein of Jordan liked blonde hair, blue eyed women.

 

[Yoder777]

It's kind of sad that Westerners only know about Islamic terorism and not the rich tradition of Islamic mysticism or the beauty that can be found, from a literary and spiritual perspective, in the Koran. Though there is no chance that I'd ever want to become a Muslim, I can certainly see the good things about the Islamic faith, and not just the bad.

I didn't get a chance to finish this book but it seemed interesting:
http://www.amazon.com/Pilgrims-Chri...eywords=Pilgrims+of+Christ+on+the+Muslim+Road

Today's tensions between the 'Islamic' East and 'Christian' West run high. Here Paul-Gordon Chandler presents fresh thinking in the area of Christian-Muslim relations, showing how Christ_whom Islam reveres as a Prophet and Christianity worships as the divine Messiah_can close the gap between the two religions. Historically, Christians have taken a confrontational or missionary approach toward Islam, leading many Muslims to identify Christianity with the cultural prejudices and hegemonic ambitions of Westerners. On the individual level, Christ-followers within Islam have traditionally been encouraged by Christians to break away from their Muslim communities. Chandler boldly explores how these two major religions_which share much common heritage_can not only co-exist, but also enrich each other. He illustrates his perspective with examples from the life of Syrian novelist Mazhar Mallouhi, widely read in the Middle East. Mallouhi, a self-identified 'Sufi Muslim follower of Christ,' seeks to bridge the chasm of misunderstanding between Muslims and Christians through his novels.
http://www.amazon.com/Pilgrims-Chri...eywords=Pilgrims+of+Christ+on+the+Muslim+Road

 

[VolRaider]

It's kind of sad that Westerners only know about Islamic terorism and not the rich tradition of Islamic mysticism or the beauty that can be found, from a literary and spiritual perspective, in the Koran. Though there is no chance that I'd ever want to become a Muslim, I can certainly see the good things about the Islamic faith, and not just the bad.

I didn't get a chance to finish this book but it seemed interesting:
Pilgrims of Christ on the Muslim Road: Exploring a New Path Between Two Faiths: Paul-Gordon Chandler: 9780742566033: Amazon.com: Books

Not true. One of my best friends in high school was a Shi'ite Muslim. I've learned a thing or two about Islam, and it's similar in the fact that both Islam and Christianity have their moderates and fundies. Don't paint the entire West with one brush.
My problem is how some (definitely not all) on your forum tend to see more positive aspects about Islam than the Western churches. I know it's your forum and I'm only a guest here, but I think it's really, really sad the animosity that some Christians have towards others. And yes, I'm very aware that it works both ways. Also, I am attacked by a family member for my "tradition." That's just very sad and disappointing to me.

 

[Yoder777]

Not true. One of my best friends in high school was a Shi'ite Muslim. I've learned a thing or two about Islam, and it's similar in the fact that both Islam and Christianity have their moderates and fundies. Don't paint the entire West with one brush.
My problem is how some (definitely not all) on your forum tend to see more positive aspects about Islam than the Western churches. I know it's your forum and I'm only a guest here, but I think it's really, really sad the animosity that some Christians have towards others. And yes, I'm very aware that it works both ways. Also, I am attacked by a family member for my "tradition." That's just very sad and disappointing to me.

You should understand that Eastern Orthodox Chrisitans have been heavily persecuted by Muslims, from the rise of Islam to this day. Perhaps you've heard the phrase "the only good Turk is a dead Turk."
Today, I think it would be good if we practiced some forgiveness and found some common ground.

If you look from a purely mystical and liturgical perspective, and from the perspective of Eastern thought, Eastern Orthodoxy has more in common with Islam than it has with evangelical Protestantism. "Allah" is the Arabic word for God, used by Arab Christians and printed in Arabic Bibles.

 

[MKJ]

I know I am not near Arabs, but this is very true where I am. I have been "taught" by folks how to have sex with more off the wall things than I can count.

This is quite common in cultures where there is a lot of separation between men and women. If there are few opportunities to interact with the opposite sex, people make do. It even seems to come up when men and women are so differently educated that they have few ways to relate to each other.

It seems like a good argument to me against the idea that separating boys and girls all the time will produce a more ethical sexual society.

 

[MKJ]

Not true. One of my best friends in high school was a Shi'ite Muslim. I've learned a thing or two about Islam, and it's similar in the fact that both Islam and Christianity have their moderates and fundies. Don't paint the entire West with one brush.
My problem is how some (definitely not all) on your forum tend to see more positive aspects about Islam than the Western churches. I know it's your forum and I'm only a guest here, but I think it's really, really sad the animosity that some Christians have towards others. And yes, I'm very aware that it works both ways. Also, I am attacked by a family member for my "tradition." That's just very sad and disappointing to me.

Well, I think it might be more of an issue of different positive things. Some of the things western people are really attracted to in Islam (which was after all the question in the OP) are the things they are not seeing around them.

Western religion has some really positive thhings, but those are not usually what someone who is looking elsewhere feels he is missing.

 

[Yoder777]

I am against having a false ecumenism that whitewashes the differences between Islam and Christianity. Then again, I think Christians and Muslims should come together to solve common problems, like the rise of secularism in the West, and its associated issues such as gay marriage, abortion, etc.

 

[Yoder777]

This book also seems interesting:

Two Traditions, One Space: Orthodox Christians and Muslims in Dialogue: George C. Papademetriou: 9781935244066: Amazon.com: Books

George C. Papademetriou is Professor Emeritus of Theology and Director of the Library at Hellenic College/Holy Cross Greek Orthodox School of Theology in Brookline, Massachusetts. He has written and lectured extensively on comparative theology, Saint Gregory Palamas, and philosophy of religion. In addition to his research and teaching, he has been actively engaged in inter-religious trialogue among Christians, Muslims, and Jews. Rev. Dr. Papademetriou was the faculty organizer and chairperson of the first International Muslim-Orthodox Christian Dialogue on the campus of Holy Cross in 1985.
Two Traditions, One Space: Orthodox Christians and Muslims in Dialogue: George C. Papademetriou: 9781935244066: Amazon.com: Books

As does this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Paths-Heart-S...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1361812114&sr=1-1

 

[E.C.]

You sure? What do you mean by black eyes? If I remember correctly both Arafat and the late King Hussein of Jordan liked blonde hair, blue eyed women.

That could be personal taste or changed times.

One of my teachers, who is from Damascus, did mention that having dark black eyes was a sign of beauty. She did not specify if it was in general, or if it was just what women find attractive in men or vice versa. It could also be a Northern Levant vs. Southern Levant thing.

I am against having a false ecumenism that whitewashes the differences between Islam and Christianity. Then again, I think Christians and Muslims should come together to solve common problems, like the rise of secularism in the West, and its associated issues such as gay marriage, abortion, etc.

That is not so much a matter of secularism as it is nihilism.

Secularism can bring about some positive things in terms of minorities not be persecuted. Christians during Hafez Assad's reign were not treated too horribly by the state. Most Christians in the Levant tend to, politically speaking, be secularists because they don't want Sharia and the subsequent persecutions that would occur.
Christians and Muslims have come together in the Middle East. During the Lebanese Civil War the religious leaders of all of Lebanon's sects (trust me, there's a lot) came together many times chastising leaders of the militias and the violence in general. When Mubarak was overthrown two years ago Copts and Muslims protected each other in Tahrir Square in Cairo from the Army and police; sadly that cooperation did not last. When Patriarch IGNATIUS IV reposed in Beirut (الله يرحم&#1607 the Muslim leaders in Lebanon and Syria expressed their condolences.

 

[Yoder777]

That is not so much a matter of secularism as it is nihilism.

Secularism can bring about some positive things in terms of minorities not be persecuted. Christians during Hafez Assad's reign were not treated too horribly by the state. Most Christians in the Levant tend to, politically speaking, be secularists because they don't want Sharia and the subsequent persecutions that would occur.

I think you are right about the terminology. Do you see common causes that Muslims and Christians can work together on?