Why will every knee bow?

[Ken-1122]

I hear people saying there will come a time when every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is lord. My question is why??? Will they do this because they are forced to against their will? Or will they choose to do so after God presents them with the truth. If for another reason, please explain. If for any of the reasons mentioned, why doesn’t God do it now before it is too late?

Ken

 

[oi_antz]

I hear people saying there will come a time when every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is lord. My question is why??? Will they do this because they are forced to against their will? Or will they choose to do so after God presents them with the truth. If for another reason, please explain. If for any of the reasons mentioned, why doesn’t God do it now before it is too late?

Ken

Hi Ken, I only imagine that when Revelation 20:11 comes due then there will be no argument whether Jesus is Lord.

 

[Ken-1122]

Hi Ken, I only imagine that when Revelation 20:11 comes due then there will be no argument whether Jesus is Lord.

So why doesn't God do it now before it's too late?

Ken

 

[oi_antz]

So why doesn't God do it now before it's too late?

Ken

Too late for what?

 

[Ken-1122]

Too late for what?

Too late to repent and become Christian?

Ken

 

[oi_antz]

Too late to repent and become Christian?

Ken

This will get interesting . Why do you think Christians are exempt from judgment? Did you read that in the bible? I read this in the bible:

Jeremiah 23:11
“Both prophet and priest are godless; even in my temple I find their wickedness,” declares the LORD.

And this:

1 John 1:8
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

And this:

17 But some of these branches from Abraham’s tree—some of the people of Israel—have been broken off. And you Gentiles, who were branches from a wild olive tree, have been grafted in. So now you also receive the blessing God has promised Abraham and his children, sharing in the rich nourishment from the root of God’s special olive tree. 18 But you must not brag about being grafted in to replace the branches that were broken off. You are just a branch, not the root.

19 “Well,” you may say, “those branches were broken off to make room for me.” 20 Yes, but remember—those branches were broken off because they didn’t believe in Christ, and you are there because you do believe. So don’t think highly of yourself, but fear what could happen. 21 For if God did not spare the original branches, he won’t[f] spare you either.

Salvation isn't a right, it is a gift to those who love the Lord. Do you love the Lord Ken?

 

[Faulty]

That's Romans 14:11. Verse 12 puts it in conjunction with a time when we will be giving an account for our lives. At the time of the accounting, all will recognize the authority that He has over them as one worthy to be our judge.

 

[oi_antz]

That's Romans 14:11. Verse 12 puts it in conjunction with a time when we will be giving an account for our lives. At the time of the accounting, all will recognize the authority that He has over them as one worthy to be our judge.

Thanks! Quoted for those who wouldn't otherwise look it up:

10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister[a]? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:

“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”

12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.

 

[razeontherock]

I hear people saying there will come a time when every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is lord. My question is why??? Will they do this because they are forced to against their will? Or will they choose to do so after God presents them with the truth. If for another reason, please explain. If for any of the reasons mentioned, why doesn’t God do it now before it is too late?

Ken

Antz is right, this gets interesting! G-d's purposes are very much at the heart of what you're asking about. I'd like to see you come to a deep and real understanding of the principles involved, rather than just give a nice pat answer, even if you found that palatable.

God gave us free will.

God Judges men's hearts, and even knows the difference between actual intents, and mere thoughts.

God's process of making us is not nearly complete. Not at birth, not at death. The above 2 elements are part of the process, which means we have some say. This is part of God's "righteousness."

Did I lose you yet?

Now, back to the thread title. I think in some cases, the knee will bow due to force. I plan on being there when satan's knee bows, and his tongue confesses. I plan on saying to God, "make him do it again!"

I'd like to think that in most cases we will see Him and that alone will cause the stated actions. And yet notice that repentance at that time will be worthless, feigned, and too late. (Or so it seems to me. There are traditions that say Salvation can be wrought after death, but that seems to clearly contradict "it is appointed to man once to die, and then the judgment.")

The point is to repent now, while we can, and do the knee bending and tongue confessing while we can. No need to wait.

 

[Hupomone10]

So why doesn't God do it now before it's too late?

Ken

Ken,
IMHO God wants people to accept Jesus as Savior by faith, having come to the realization that they are guilty of sin against Him and Him personally. A real, heart-felt conscious and voluntary turning from sin to God rather than doing so because one sees there is no other alternative and doing so reluctantly. If it were after the world-wide revelation that Jesus is Lord, it wouldn't really be voluntary and a proactive decision, but reactive much like the decisions during the years after Constantine when mass groups of people were "converted" at the foot of the sword of "Christian" soldiers.

We all see what kind of disciples people are who make a commitment reluctantly - half-hearted at best. There is enough evidence now for one to believe. I am not strong in faith, but I saw the evidence and came to believe. That means anyone can.

Blessings,
H.

 

[food4thought]

Hupomone makes a very good point. If God suddenly appeared in the sky or something, I am pretty sure most people would believe; but it would not change their hearts. God is more interested in our willing cooperation with Him in changing us from the inside out, not in us all becoming like Pavlov's dogs and bending our knees whenever the bell rings lol.

God's plan is designed to bring to Himself a people who have been transformed WILLINGLY into a people who will be good citizens of heaven. If a person was forced to obey God, eventually his/her true desires would express themselves and they would depart from God... Heaven would not be heaven if that were to happen there.

God wants us to have a free will. God is patient and will not do something that will diminish our free will to the extent that He forces His will upon us in this life. At the time of judgment, God's patience will be at an end and there will be a just verdict based upon the life we have lived, and every knee will bow at that time whether willingly or not.

I hope this helps;
Mike

 

[Ken-1122]

This will get interesting . Why do you think Christians are exempt from judgment? Did you read that in the bible? I read this in the bible:

Salvation isn't a right, it is a gift to those who love the Lord. Do you love the Lord Ken?

I'm not saying Christians are exempt from judgment, I'm saying you can be as good as can be, but if you don't believe, you will be judged the same as Hitler, Omin, and all the other evil people who deserve hell. But if proof were provided, good people would be making an informed decision, thus they wouldn't be judged harshly as a result of their ignorance. That's how I see it; do you see it differently?

Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

Now, back to the thread title. I think in some cases, the knee will bow due to force.

If he is going to force everyone to bow to him, why not force everyone now? Before it's too late?

I'd like to think that in most cases we will see Him and that alone will cause the stated actions. And yet notice that repentance at that time will be worthless, feigned, and too late.

So why not allow us to see him now before it's too late for the "stated actions" to make as difference?

The point is to repent now, while we can, and do the knee bending and tongue confessing while we can. No need to wait.

How about those who bend knees and confess tongue to the wrong God out of ignorance; shouldn't they be allowed an informed decision?

Ken

 

[JCFantasy23]

I'm not saying Christians are exempt from judgment, I'm saying you can be as good as can be, but if you don't believe, you will be judged the same as Hitler, Omin, and all the other evil people who deserve hell. But if proof were provided, good people would be making an informed decision, thus they wouldn't be judged harshly as a result of their ignorance. That's how I see it; do you see it differently?

Ken

Not only non-believers will be judged, ALL will be judged. God sees the heart, and he sees those who did not turn toward Him as well.

If he is going to force everyone to bow to him, why not force everyone now? Before it's too late?

People will not be forced even then. I think this means that when the time comes, all will see God, and even nonbelievers will then see the truth, and the glory of God will cause everyone to bow out of respect as we all see the truth and the hugeness of it.

So why not allow us to see him now before it's too late for the "stated actions" to make as difference?

I think they answered it adequately already so won't repeat everything, but we have been given free will, but also knowledge of God if a person searches.

How about those who bend knees and confess tongue to the wrong God out of ignorance; shouldn't they be allowed an informed decision?

We are all allowed to make our own decisions, so I am not sure what you mean about this question. You think it is unfair to be able to make our own decisions, even if we make the wrong choice on who to follow?

 

[razeontherock]

So why not allow us to see him now before it's too late for the "stated actions" to make as difference?

What prevents you from "seeing Him" now?

How about those who bend knees and confess tongue to the wrong God

Why are you imposing a judgment upon hypothetical people?

 

[Ken-1122]

Ken,
IMHO God wants people to accept Jesus as Savior by faith, having come to the realization that they are guilty of sin against Him and Him personally. A real, heart-felt conscious and voluntary turning from sin to God rather than doing so because one sees there is no other alternative and doing so reluctantly.

How about those who turn from sin to God but they turn to the wrong God? They turn to the only God they know; the one they were brought up around?

If it were after the world-wide revelation that Jesus is Lord, it wouldn't really be voluntary and a proactive decision, but reactive much like the decisions during the years after Constantine when mass groups of people were "converted" at the foot of the sword of "Christian" soldiers.

Seems to me there is a big difference between "convert or I will kill you" and "here are the facts, convert if you wish" don't you agree?

Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

Hupomone makes a very good point. If God suddenly appeared in the sky or something, I am pretty sure most people would believe; but it would not change their hearts. God is more interested in our willing cooperation with Him in changing us from the inside out, not in us all becoming like Pavlov's dogs and bending our knees whenever the bell rings lol.

But the same can be said about the one who believes via faith! Just because a person believes by faith doesnt mean they will have a change of heart; it just means they believe.

God's plan is designed to bring to Himself a people who have been transformed WILLINGLY into a people who will be good citizens of heaven.

Again; believing by faith does not mean they will willingly transform to something better than they already are so why not provide proof?

If a person was forced to obey God, eventually his/her true desires would express themselves and they would depart from God... Heaven would not be heaven if that were to happen there.

Providing proof does not force anyone to do anything; they will still have the option to reject or not, to obey or not.

God wants us to have a free will. God is patient and will not do something that will diminish our free will to the extent that He forces His will upon us in this life.

Again; freewill has nothing to do with it. Proof only allows one to make an informed decision. without proof it seems one shouldn't be blamed if they worshiip the God of their father, and their father's father; etc. The only God he has access to; Proof would change all of that; don't cha think?

Ken

 

[someguy14]

I'm not saying Christians are exempt from judgment, I'm saying you can be as good as can be, but if you don't believe, you will be judged the same as Hitler, Omin, and all the other evil people who deserve hell. But if proof were provided, good people would be making an informed decision, thus they wouldn't be judged harshly as a result of their ignorance. That's how I see it; do you see it differently?

Ken

Goodness cannot go against goodness and wickedness cannot go against wickedness unless it destroy itself. All that recognize goodness as goodness agree that God is good and believe in the fact, the truth, of God. If something is good, it is called good, or else that one calling good, bad, is lieing.

So, one saying to themselves that their good and God isn't, is lieing.
God is all the good.


3 John 1:11
Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

1 John 4:6-10
6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

 

[razeontherock]

But the same can be said about the one who believes via faith! Just because a person believes by faith doesnt mean they will have a change of heart; it just means they believe.

Apparently you have a different view of this than God does. Will He change due to your superior wisdom?

Again; believing by faith does not mean they will willingly transform to something better than they already are so why not provide proof?

Um, yes it does. That's the whole point

Providing proof does not force anyone to do anything; they will still have the option to reject or not, to obey or not.

So you're saying you could decide to believe the earth is flat and on the back of giant turtles? I don't believe you.

Again; freewill has nothing to do with it. Proof only allows one to make an informed decision. without proof it seems one shouldn't be blamed if they worshiip the God of their father, and their father's father; etc. The only God he has access to

What if God isn't as worried about this "wrong God" concept as you are?

 

[Ken-1122]

Goodness cannot go against goodness and wickedness cannot go against wickedness unless it destroy itself. All that recognize goodness as goodness agree that God is good and believe in the fact, the truth, of God. If something is good, it is called good, or else that one calling good, bad, is lieing.

So, one saying to themselves that their good and God isn't, is lieing.
God is all the good.

I think you are misunderstanding me. I'm not talking about saying your God is bad, I'm saying there are Muslims, Hindu's etc. who believe in their God and are as moral as Christians. These people who worship what you might consider a false God, but behave good will be judged as harshly as Hitler; am I wrong?

Ken