Why were the Disciples So Faithless?

[Givemeareason]

This has been a question that has plagued me all my life. Why after all the miracles (calming a storm, walking on water, raising Lazurus, etc., etc) would have the disciples had any doubt of Jesus being the Son of God? Why would Peter have had all of his doubts? Jesus even told them of his impending death and that he would arise again after three days. Yet Peter denied Jesus three times before the crucifiction. And already knowing full well Jesus was undeniably exactly who he said he was. How could Judas have betrayed him for simple money and suffer the consequences he did? How could Thomas have doubted the resurrection to the extent he did? Why did the disciples even fear death after all they had witnessed? At that point there should have been no surprise. The surprise would have been if he did not resurrect. There have been innumerable displays of faith far greater than the disciples. Yet the disciples had the benefit of having all their doubts satisfied. There would have been no reason for them not to believe. I struggle with faith and always have. Why should I or anyone have to have faith without a reason after the disciples couldn't even believe what was right in front of them.

 

[RDKirk]

This has been a question that has plagued me all my life. Why after all the miracles (calming a storm, walking on water, raising Lazurus, etc., etc) would have the disciples had any doubt of Jesus being the Son of God? Why would Peter have had all of his doubts? Jesus even told them of his impending death and that he would arise again after three days. Yet Peter denied Jesus three times before the crucifiction. And already knowing full well Jesus was undeniably exactly who he said he was. How could Judas have betrayed him for simple money and suffer the consequences he did? How could Thomas have doubted the resurrection to the extent he did? Why did the disciples even fear death after all they had witnessed? At that point there should have been no surprise. The surprise would have been if he did not resurrect. There have been innumerable displays of faith far greater than the disciples. Yet the disciples had the benefit of having all their doubts satisfied. There would have been no reason for them not to believe. I struggle with faith and always have. Why should I or anyone have to have faith without a reason after the disciples couldn't even believe what was right in front of them.

Because the old religion was hard to shake out of them. After all the miracles (or perhaps because of the miracles), they were still expecting to see the Messiah they had been taught: A conquering re-boot of David who would lead armies to vanquish the Romans as well as the vassal Herodian kings and establish a new monarchy.

Crucifixion and resurrection? Seriously, Jesus? In their time and place, such a thing just could not be conceived as a strategy for victory. It made no sense whatsoever. It couldn't possibly be a "plan."

Okay, Jesus, that was pretty funny. Now tell us your real plan. When are you going to star whipping up on the Romans?

 

[Givemeareason]

Because the old religion was hard to shake out of them. After all the miracles (or perhaps because of the miracles), they were still expecting to see the Messiah they had been taught: A conquering re-boot of David who would lead armies to vanquish the Romans as well as the vassal Herodian kings and establish a new monarchy.

Crucifixion and resurrection? Seriously, Jesus? In their time and place, such a thing just could not be conceived as a strategy for victory. It made no sense whatsoever. It couldn't possibly be a "plan."

Okay, Jesus, that was pretty funny. Now tell us your real plan. When are you going to star whipping up on the Romans?

I can understand he was unexpected. But why after all the proof they had witnessed still struggle to believe?

 

[RDKirk]

I can understand he was unexpected. But why after all the proof they had witnessed still struggle to believe?

What proof had they witnessed that the path to victory could be through crucifixion? Have you ever seen a crucifixion? Walking on water is cool, but nobody can come back from a crucifixion. That's just silly.

 

[Givemeareason]

Jesus calmed a storm by simply telling it to be still. He walked on water and even Peter had enough faith for a moment to do the same. Jesus then scolded them for their lack of faith. He raised Lazurus. How could anyone not have faith in his resurrection after witnessing all that?

 

[RDKirk]

Jesus calmed a storm by simply telling it to be still. He walked on water and even Peter had enough faith for a moment to do the same. Jesus then scolded them for their lack of faith. He raised Lazurus. How could anyone not have faith in his resurrection after witnessing all that?

Because that's not the way they'd been taught the Messiah would take rule, and what Jesus was saying was foolishness--they were still reasoning by the wisdom of man, not with the mind of Christ.

It took His resurrection for them to see his plan come together.

 

[Givemeareason]

I am not sure I am following you. Regardless what they were taught, they were following Jesus. They are listening to what he is saying. At one point he is asleep in the back of a boat. A storm gets rough and the disciples begin to fear. They awake Jesus for help. He awakes and tells the storm to be still and it obeys his command. Did Jesus ever disappoint them? Did he not always do what he said? How could anyone have doubted Jesus upon witnessing him stilling a storm not even to mention all the other miracles?

 

[juvenissun]

This has been a question that has plagued me all my life. Why after all the miracles (calming a storm, walking on water, raising Lazurus, etc., etc) would have the disciples had any doubt of Jesus being the Son of God? Why would Peter have had all of his doubts? Jesus even told them of his impending death and that he would arise again after three days. Yet Peter denied Jesus three times before the crucifiction. And already knowing full well Jesus was undeniably exactly who he said he was. How could Judas have betrayed him for simple money and suffer the consequences he did? How could Thomas have doubted the resurrection to the extent he did? Why did the disciples even fear death after all they had witnessed? At that point there should have been no surprise. The surprise would have been if he did not resurrect. There have been innumerable displays of faith far greater than the disciples. Yet the disciples had the benefit of having all their doubts satisfied. There would have been no reason for them not to believe. I struggle with faith and always have. Why should I or anyone have to have faith without a reason after the disciples couldn't even believe what was right in front of them.

Christians do not doubt the Lord Jesus is the Son of God. But many Christians are afraid of death.
Faith needs to "grow". Faith is weak for everyone at the beginning, no matter what.

 

[juvenissun]

I am not sure I am following you. Regardless what they were taught, they were following Jesus. They are listening to what he is saying. At one point he is asleep in the back of a boat. A storm gets rough and the disciples begin to fear. They awake Jesus for help. He awakes and tells the storm to be still and it obeys his command. Did Jesus ever disappoint them? Did he not always do what he said? How could anyone have doubted Jesus upon witnessing him stilling a storm not even to mention all the other miracles?

AFTER the Lord Jesus died, disciples became courageous. Why?

 

[Givemeareason]

Christians do not doubt the Lord Jesus is the Son of God. But many Christians are afraid of death.
Faith needs to "grow". Faith is weak for everyone at the beginning, no matter what.

Faith is BELIEVING the Lord Jesus is the son of God. And if the disciples had so little faith that bothers me. It always has because to me it makes the gospels look questionable. With all the reason they had to believe and still didn't, I don't know why anybody should have to answer for their struggle with faith.

 

[Givemeareason]

AFTER the Lord Jesus died, disciples became courageous. Why?

I dont know why they would have felt any different after than before. Where was their courage before he died?

 

[Soyeong]

I honestly can't say that I would do any better if I were in their shoes. We had the advantage of hindsight that they didn't have. How often do you look back and wish you had said or done something differently? I think the fact that they had doubts and wrestled with them makes them human and gives them an air of authenticity that would have been missing if they had been portrayed as diehard believers from the beginning.

My brother was talking to me earlier today about how Tolkien told the story from the perspective of the most ignorant person in the room, so by having other characters explain things to them, Tolkien also explains them to us. By portraying the disciples at simpletons and having Jesus explain things to them, we benefit both by learning from their mistakes and from Jesus. The growth of the disciples into mature believers is also an important aspect of the NT.

 

[Givemeareason]

Christians do not doubt the Lord Jesus is the Son of God. But many Christians are afraid of death.
Faith needs to "grow". Faith is weak for everyone at the beginning, no matter what.

It bothers me that you mentioned death, because I don't see that as even connected to believing.

 

[Givemeareason]

I honestly can't say that I would do any better if I were in their shoes. We had the advantage of hindsight that they didn't have. How often do you look back and wish you had said or done something differently? I think the fact that they had doubts and wrestled with them makes them human and gives them an air of authenticity that would have been missing if they had been portrayed as diehard believers from the beginning.

My brother was talking to me earlier today about how Tolkien told the story from the perspective of the most ignorant person in the room, so by having other characters explain things to them, Tolkien also explains them to us. By portraying the disciples at simpletons and having Jesus explain things to them, we benefit both by learning from their mistakes and from Jesus. The growth of the disciples into mature believers is also an important aspect of the NT.

You are telling me that even today if Jesus suddenly appeared performing miracles of the caliber of he did then, you would have doubt as they did then? I would say there will be no doubt when Jesus returns. And if I had been there then.... I see no reason after witnessing what the disciples saw i would have had any doubt back then.

 

[juvenissun]

It bothers me that you mentioned death, because I don't see that as even connected to believing.

Any religious faith MUST be connected to the fact of death.

 

[orangeness365]

I think it was probably to fulfill scripture. Isaiah says he was rejected by mankind. I don't think we could say that if his disciples went to to go be crucified with him.
Isaiah 53:3

 

[Givemeareason]

Any religious faith MUST be connected to the fact of death.

I don't see why a person should believe because they fear death. I struggle with belief because I have to reconcile faith with reason.

 

[Givemeareason]

I think it was probably to fulfill scripture. Isaiah says he was rejected by mankind. I don't think we could say that if his disciples went to to go be crucified with him.
Isaiah 53:3

We can only speculate as I can see.

 

[Soyeong]

You are telling me that even today if Jesus suddenly appeared performing miracles of the caliber of he did then, you would have doubt as they did then? I would say there will be no doubt when Jesus returns. And if I had been there then.... I see no reason after witnessing what the disciples saw i would have had any doubt back then.

I know what I'd like to say, but I also know the reality of the human condition. When we hear someone recount something miraculous that happened to them, we often wonder if that person is being truthful, whether they could have been mistaken, whether they would have recovered if they hadn't been prayed for, etc. Even when something happens to us, five minutes later we're doubting ourselves. I'd like to be the person who would be willing to die for my faith, but I don't know what I'd do if a knife were to my throat. It's so much hard to be the person willing to live for my faith.

 

[juvenissun]

I don't see why a person should believe because they fear death. I struggle with belief because I have to reconcile faith with reason.

If you do not have faith yet, you may not have to.
Once you have some faith, then the threaten of death is the ultimate test on your faith. May people WILL fail their faith when facing death. That is why not every self-claimed Christian is a true Christian. The Bible says this clearly.

By the way, failed on faith does not mean the loss of Salvation. God knows everyone of us is pretty weak. A Christian failed on his faith almost on a daily bases.