Why was the risen Christ unrecognizable to Mary Magdalene and the Disciples?

[YoureMyBeloved]

Maybe He seemed more human before His death and assumed a divine appearance after the Resurrection?

 

[Grafted In]

I think the entire book of Hebrews is the best place to start.

Are you working on gathering those you mentioned with greater understanding of Scripture? If they haven't already read this entire thread I think it would be a good starting point as to how to work with us as we struggle to reach mutual understanding. If they can prove me wrong I will receive correction eagerly.

 

[RDKirk]

Maybe He seemed more human before His death and assumed a divine appearance after the Resurrection?

Well, regarding at least the men who met Him on the road to Emmaus, we have this:

Now that same day two of them were on their way to a village called Emmaus, which was about seven miles from Jerusalem. Together they were discussing everything that had taken place.

And while they were discussing and arguing, Jesus Himself came near and began to walk along with them. But they were prevented from recognizing Him. -- Luke 24

 

[Grafted In]

Now that same day two of them were on their way to a village called Emmaus, which was about seven miles from Jerusalem. Together they were discussing everything that had taken place.

And while they were discussing and arguing, Jesus Himself came near and began to walk along with them. But they were prevented from recognizing Him. -- Luke 24

I can see that as the reason Mary did not recognize Him. Perhaps He just wanted her to hear his voice. That's where we are today. Great point, RDKirk. Thanks

 

[Strong in Him]

I think the entire book of Hebrews is the best place to start.

Where you start is up to you.

I'm looking for Scripture references which say, specifically, that;
- the two angels at the tomb gave Jesus a white robe from the holy of holies,
- that Jesus went into the holy of holies, wearing this robe, to apply his blood to the mercy seat,
- that Jesus could not be touched by anyone until he had done this, otherwise his sacrifice on the cross would have been rendered worthless.

This is what you have said in this thread. I have just asked you to show me the Scriptural references for this.
Sorry, but when you continue to say "the whole book of Hebrews", without giving anything more specific, it rather makes me think that you are just repeating something someone else has said and you don't actually know. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but it is certainly the impression that I have.

Are you working on gathering those you mentioned with greater understanding of Scripture?

No, I'm pretty sure that if we start discussing, others will join in - this being a public forum.
So over to you. Answers to my questions would be good; if not, then specific Scriptures from the book of Hebrews which, you say, prove your position.

 

[Grafted In]

Answers to my questions would be good; if not, then specific Scriptures from the book of Hebrews which, you say, prove your position.

Had you ever before heard the idea I put forth?
If not perhaps if you read it with it in mind perhaps you'll agree.

 

[Grafted In]

Think of it this way. 2 other desiples went to the empty tomb. The left after looking over the things that had changed. Mary stayed behind and it was then that He appeared to her. Place yourself in the room where they hid in fear. Mary returns and tells them she had seen Him. They probable overwhelmed her with questions such as "what to you mean you saw Him? Did He speak to you? Yes, He called me by name and I knew His voice". "Is that all He said to you?" " No, He told me to tell you He was ascending to His Father and our Father...To His God and our God".

Does that help you to understand why I believe as I do?

 

[Strong in Him]

Had you ever before heard the idea I put forth?
If not perhaps if you read it with it in mind perhaps you'll agree.

No - because it's not Scriptural and was/is not taught by the church.

Think of it this way. 2 other desiples went to the empty tomb. The left after looking over the things that had changed. Mary stayed behind and it was then that He appeared to her. Place yourself in the room where they hid in fear. Mary returns and tells them she had seen Him. They probable overwhelmed her with questions such as "what to you mean you saw Him? Did He speak to you? Yes, He called me by name and I knew His voice". "Is that all He said to you?" " No, He told me to tell you He was ascending to His Father and our Father...To His God and our God".

Does that help you to understand why I believe as I do?

I can understand that you have been given/worked out a scenario that explains a question that you have with the text, but it's not Scriptural. However reasonable your explanation may sound, to you; however excited you may have been when you heard it, or however passionate the person was when they told it to you, it's not in the Gospels.
The text does NOT say, "go and tell my disciples I have to ascend to the holy of holies to apply my blood to the mercy seat, and then I'll come back down and see them."
The text does NOT say, "here, Jesus, put on this nice white robe which we have just brought you from heaven. Don't let anyone touch you before you ascend or all the agony you suffered on the cross will have been for nothing."

It's not there; otherwise you would have shown me by now to prove me wrong.

 

[Grafted In]

Hebrews chapter 9
11But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. 13For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

 

[Strong in Him]

Hebrews chapter 9
11But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. 13For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Yes, Jesus obtained eternal redemption for us own the cross; by offering his life as a sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins. Hebrews explains that Jesus is our great high priest and offered his own blood to God as a sacrifice for sin. Unlike the blood of goats and bulls, this sacrifice is once and forever. 40 days after his resurrection Jesus ascended into heaven - entered the heavenly sanctuary.

This does not say that Jesus rose from the dead, appeared to Mary, told her not to touch him because he had to go to the heavenly sanctuary and could not be defiled, went there to apply his blood and put on the High priest's white robe, and returned to earth again.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Yes, Jesus obtained eternal redemption for us own the cross; by offering his life as a sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins. Hebrews explains that Jesus is our great high priest and offered his own blood to God as a sacrifice for sin. Unlike the blood of goats and bulls, this sacrifice is once and forever. 40 days after his resurrection Jesus ascended into heaven - entered the heavenly sanctuary.

Strong in Him: Wonderful truths; and the Epistle to the Hebrews brings them out strongly.

Blessings.

 

[Strong in Him]

Strong in Him: Wonderful truths; and the Epistle to the Hebrews brings them out strongly.

Blessings.

Yes. It took me a while to get into the book of Hebrews, but there's some great stuff in it. (As with the rest of Scripture, of course.)

 

[Grafted In]

Please explain to me why Jesus told Mary to go tell the others that He ascends to His Father and our Father, to His God and our God then appear to them later that same day...the day of His resurection ?
He spent 40 more days with them before His ascension. Plenty of time to tell them Himself.
Consider also the fact that He would not allow Mary to touch Him at the time He appeared to her at the empty tomb. Then later, as I have put forth they all could touch Him all they wanted....for another forty days.
Taking all these portions of Scipture together wouldn't it be reasonable to conclude that He ascended to Heaven that very morning to sprinkle His Blood it the Holy Places in The Heavenly Tabernacle.
It's one thing to assume something you want to read into Scripture to account for one's actions or words, but these portions of Scripture work together to form what may very well be Truth From God. None of them counterdict Scripture nor do I believe they are taken out of context.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Yes. It took me a while to get into the book of Hebrews, but there's some great stuff in it. (As with the rest of Scripture, of course.)

It's absolutely amazing, the Epistle to the Hebrews, once you really get into it!

Blessings.

 

[Strong in Him]

Please explain to me why Jesus told Mary to go tell the others that He ascends to His Father and our Father, to His God and our God then appear to them later that same day...the day of His resurection ?
He spent 40 more days with them before His ascension. Plenty of time to tell them Himself.
Consider also the fact that He would not allow Mary to touch Him at the time He appeared to her at the empty tomb. Then later, as I have put forth they all could touch Him all they wanted....for another forty days.
Taking all these portions of Scipture together wouldn't it be reasonable to conclude that He ascended to Heaven that very morning to sprinkle His Blood it the Holy Places in The Heavenly Tabernacle.
It's one thing to assume something you want to read into Scripture to account for one's actions or words, but these portions of Scripture work together to form what may very well be Truth From God. None of them counterdict Scripture nor do I believe they are taken out of context.

We've explained to you a number of times in this thread, yet you repeat the same questions.

That verse says "dont hang on to me"
It does not say "don't touch me".

No. Jesus told Mary not to cling onto him - don't try to restrict him, keep him in one place only or all to herself. It reminds me a bit of the transfiguration when Peter wanted to hold onto the moment for as long as possible and suggested building tents for Jesus, Moses and Elijah. Jesus could not spend hours in the garden being hugged by Mary! He had people to see and things to do before he ascended to the Father.

This has already been touched on in this thread.

Jesus knew what Mary (all of them) deeply wanted: For Him to remain with them as He had always been, never to depart from them. That's why He said "do not hold on to me" or "do not cling to me" rather than "do not touch me."

The Greek "do not cling to me" has this sense in Job 31:7, where the Septuagint uses the same word to translate the Hebrew, which signifies to cleave, cling, stick, or be glued to rather than the mere momentary touch that Jesus offered to Thomas.

As I and others have pointed out the text says "don't cling to Me" not "don't touch Me". His command for Mary to announce that He had risen and that He would ascend to the Father is just that--go and tell the others.

Taking all these portions of Scipture together wouldn't it be reasonable to conclude that He ascended to Heaven that very morning to sprinkle His Blood it the Holy Places in The Heavenly Tabernacle.

No, it's not "reasonable to conclude" something which isn't in Scripture; that is reading into the text.

I could equally say;
"If it was imperative for Jesus to ascend to heaven to apply his blood to the mercy seat and put on a clean robe, and if he could not be touched by anyone on earth for fear of being defiled - isn't it more logical to assume that God would have taken him straight to heaven from the tomb without letting him go via the garden?"
You haven't yet explained why God would raise Jesus, allow him to appear to Mary, take him straight back to heaven and then send him down again when he could have done all that before allowing Jesus to walk out of the tomb? What would be the point of allowing him to walk about in a garden, on grass or on a dusty path if he could not touch anything?

It's one thing to assume something you want to read into Scripture to account for one's actions or words, but these portions of Scripture work together to form what may very well be Truth From God. None of them counterdict Scripture nor do I believe they are taken out of context.

The teaching that Jesus was raised from the dead, appeared to Mary Magdalene, said "tell the others you've seen me but don't touch me because I'm just nipping back to heaven to apply my blood which will finish my work of salvation, and if you touch me, you'll ruin it and make my death pointless" is definitely not Scripture, was never taught by the church and is not "truth from God".
Anything which implies that the cross was not enough to save us, or was ineffective, or that our salvation is dependant on something else besides the cross, is not from God at all.

 

[faroukfarouk]

We've explained to you a number of times in this thread, yet you repeat the same questions.









No, it's not "reasonable to conclude" something which isn't in Scripture; that is reading into the text.

I could equally say;
"If it was imperative for Jesus to ascend to heaven to apply his blood to the mercy seat and put on a clean robe, and if he could not be touched by anyone on earth for fear of being defiled - isn't it more logical to assume that God would have taken him straight to heaven from the tomb without letting him go via the garden?"
You haven't yet explained why God would raise Jesus, allow him to appear to Mary, take him straight back to heaven and then send him down again when he could have done all that before allowing Jesus to walk out of the tomb? What would be the point of allowing him to walk about in a garden, on grass or on a dusty path if he could not touch anything?

The teaching that Jesus was raised from the dead, appeared to Mary Magdalene, said "tell the others you've seen me but don't touch me because I'm just nipping back to heaven to apply my blood which will finish my work of salvation, and if you touch me, you'll ruin it and make my death pointless" is definitely not Scripture, was never taught by the church and is not "truth from God".
Anything which implies that the cross was not enough to save us, or was ineffective, or that our salvation is dependant on something else besides the cross, is not from God at all.

Yes, we need to be careful what we extrapolate from Scripture if it is not explicitly stated.

 

[paul becke]

If the 'black ops' people in the intelligence services can mess with people' minds, God probably has a million ways of doing so. We are probably just thoughts of his in one sense anyway. If He stopped thinking about us, we'd just cease to exist. I had a strange but beautiful experience one night, a few months ago, on my way to either the kitchen or the bathroom (the doors are next to each other, opening onto the passage).

For probably no more than two seconds - though it seemed a lot longer ... but nowhere near long enough !), the cream-coloured walls of the passage suddenly seemed sort of transparent, though still cream-coloured. I was aware of being able to see through them to the back of the masonry, but don't recall seeing anything on the other side.

Still the impression was of complete transparency. Also, while we're on the second floor, I had the impression that the flat, itself, was suspended in the air. There was a beauty to all of it though that I wished I could have 'detained' indefinitely. So why, would suspending any of our faculties from their being fully functional not be an option open to God ? A piece of cake.

 

[paul becke]

'Plenty of time to tell them Himself.' Why should he ? He was under no obligation to. You can be sure Jesus would have had a reason to have them do it.

 

[RDKirk]

If He stopped thinking about us, we'd just cease to exist.

For everything was created by Him,
in heaven and on earth,
the visible and the invisible,
whether thrones or dominions
or rulers or authorities—
all things have been created through Him and for Him.
He is before all things,
and by Him all things hold together. -- Colossians 1

Nothing was created except through Christ. Just as importantly, nothing even continues to exist except through Christ. Nothing--not even Satan--exists by its own will, but by the continuous will of God that it exists.

Indeed, if God merely stopped thinking about something, it would cease to exist.

I think--my theory--is that it goes farther than that. Because God exists simultaneously not only at every point of space but also in every moment of time ("extemporal simultaneity"), if God stopped thinking of a thing from one moment in time, it would cease to exist in every moment in time...it would never have existed.

 

[paul becke]

For everything was created by Him,
in heaven and on earth,
the visible and the invisible,
whether thrones or dominions
or rulers or authorities—
all things have been created through Him and for Him.
He is before all things,
and by Him all things hold together. -- Colossians 1

Nothing was created except through Christ. Just as importantly, nothing even continues to exist except through Christ. Nothing--not even Satan--exists by its own will, but by the continuous will of God that it exists.

Indeed, if God merely stopped thinking about something, it would cease to exist.

I think--my theory--is that it goes farther than that. Because God exists simultaneously not only at every point of space but also in every moment of time ("extemporal simultaneity"), if God stopped thinking of a thing from one moment in time, it would cease to exist in every moment in time...it would never have existed.

Well, yes. Eternity is very mysterious. It is said that in eternity, everything that exists or occurs or has existed or has occurred, or will exist or will occur, do so, have done so, will do so, simultaneously ; so your extrapolation sounds correct, doesn't it ?