Why was John BEHEADED?

[Lulav]

Ever wonder about why John (the Immerser) was beheaded?

According to RamBam the corperal punishment for false prophecy was strangulation.

Someone noted that the prophet to precede the Messiah (John- whom Yeshua called 'Elijah') was beheaded and that before the second coming, beheading will again be done on those who believe in Messiah and his return. This coordinates with what the book of Revelation speaks of.

When Herod hears about Yeshua.........

14 And king Herod heard of him; (for his name was spread abroad and he said, That John the Baptist was risen from the dead, and therefore mighty works do shew forth themselves in him.
15 Others said, That it is Elias. And others said, That it is a prophet, or as one of the prophets.
16 But when Herod heard thereof, he said, It is John, whom I beheaded: he is risen from the dead.

17For Herod himself had sent forth and laid hold upon John, and bound him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife: for he had married her. 18For John had said unto Herod, It is not lawful for thee to have thy brother's wife. 19Therefore Herodias had a quarrel against him, and would have killed him; but she could not: 20For Herod feared John, knowing that he was a just man and an holy, and observed him; and when he heard him, he did many things, and heard him gladly. 21And when a convenient day was come, that Herod on his birthday made a supper to his lords, high captains, and chief estates of Galilee; 22And when the daughter of the said Herodias came in, and danced, and pleased Herod and them that sat with him, the king said unto the damsel, Ask of me whatsoever thou wilt, and I will give it thee. 23And he sware unto her, Whatsoever thou shalt ask of me, I will give it thee, unto the half of my kingdom. 24And she went forth, and said unto her mother, What shall I ask? And she said, The head of John the Baptist. 25And she came in straightway with haste unto the king, and asked, saying, I will that thou give me by and by in a charger the head of John the Baptist. 26And the king was exceeding sorry; yet for his oath's sake, and for their sakes which sat with him, he would not reject her. 27And immediately the king sent an executioner, and commanded his head to be brought: and he went and beheaded him in the prison, 28And brought his head in a charger, and gave it to the damsel: and the damsel gave it to her mother. 29And when his disciples heard of it, they came and took up his corpse, and laid it in a tomb.
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Where else do we see beheadings?

Acts 12, one of the 12 Apostles beheaded

1 Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church. 2And he killed James the brother of John with the sword.

Revelation 20

4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

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Currently the only 'peoples' that do beheading are those who practice Sharia law.

I saw this headline recently about one of the debates

"Hillary Clinton Chopped Off Trump's Head"

Could this be prophetic?

And she went forth, and said unto her mother, What shall I ask? And she said, The head of John the Baptist.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

It was an ancient custom of the times apparently. Remember the hill, called by us today as Calvary's hill, where Christ was crucified? To the ancients in the area at the time it was known as Golgotha (Matthew 27:33, Mark 15:22) Golgotha=The place of the skull.

Remember too that David beheaded Goliath after he killed the giant.

Ancient Beheading

 

[visionary]

There are many ways John could have been killed, but since the daughter made her request for the head, beheading makes sense. Prophetic?? Symbolic?? Good question.

 

[Goodbook]

beheading has happened in France in the Terror and French Revolution, it wasn't restricted to muslims. Also in China that was also a practice I believe. In Papua New Guinea and in Maori culture they used to have headhunters and eat the flesh of their enemies. The heads were preserved.

This has happened all throughout history not just in recent times.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

This has happened all throughout history not just in recent times.

Do you think we aer 'headed that way again ? (yes, I think so)

 

[Lulav]

There are many ways John could have been killed, but since the daughter made her request for the head, beheading makes sense. Prophetic?? Symbolic?? Good question.

Yes, true, but he was murdered in that way and it was specified so I think it has some meaning.

Did a little digging ----Salome was the Step Daughter of Herod Antipas


Was married twice, once to Herod Antipas' half-brother, Philip (both sons of Herod the Great who sought to kill Yeshua as a child), then to Aristobulus (son of Herod of Chalcis).

Her mother Herodias was the one who demanded the head, not Salome so I think some digging into her bloodline might reveal some interesting bits. That Herod family is so intertwined it's hard to make things out.

 

[Lulav]

Makes you wonder when you see things like this

 

[visionary]

Examples of beheading as a gory victory...

Judges 7:25
And they took two princes of the Midianites, Oreb and Zeeb ... and brought the heads of Oreb and Zeeb to Gideon....



1 Samuel 17:57
And as David returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, ... [he] brought ... the head of the Philistine in his hand.


2 Samuel 4:7-8
And they smote him, and slew him, and beheaded him, and took his head ... brought the head of Ishbosheth unto David....


2 Samuel 20:22
And they cut off the head of Sheba the son of Bichri, and cast it out to Joab.


2 Kings 10:7-8
[T]hey took the king's sons, and slew seventy persons, and put their heads in baskets, and sent him them to Jezreel. And there came a messenger, and told him, saying, They have brought the heads of the king's sons. And he said, Lay ye them in two heaps at the entering in of the gate until the morning.


Judith 13:2-11
They were all overcharged with wine ... But Holofernes lay on his bed, fast asleep, being exceedingly drunk. ... Judith stood before the bed praying ... Strengthen me, O Lord God of Israel ... that I may bring to pass ... that it might be done by thee ... When she had said this, she ... loosed his sword ... And ... she took him by the hair of his head, and said: Strengthen me, O Lord ... And she struck twice upon his neck, and cut off his head ... And after a while she went out, and delivered the head of Holofernes to her maid, and bade her put it into her wallet.

 

[Lulav]

That got me to thinking if this is relational to Genesis 3:15

14And the L-RD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

The only other place I can find that word 'bruise' is in Job

For he bruises me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause. Job 9:17

and Psalm 139:11
If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The only other place I can find that word 'bruise' is in Job

You might be devastated to find 'bruised' and everything associated with this concerning MESSIAH and PAUL in the NEW TESTAMENT as revealed in http://essene.com/History&Essenes/Exec.htm

 

[Lulav]

You might be devastated

Hardly.

I was trying to show that there are various meanings for the Hebrew word.

I think the emphasis is more on the heel and head then the method.

Just trying to make connections.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Hardly.
I was trying to show that there are various meanings for the Hebrew word.
I think the emphasis is more on the heel and head then the method.
Just trying to make connections.

How would you know if you didn't read the link ?

What is happening today, as we post even,
would pierce your heart if you knew....
it did as many watched when HE was pierced (and before then, such brutal vicious cruel violence to HIM, our SAVIOR
as vividly described in Scripture, and revealed more fully than english can , in the link.

 

[Lulav]

How would you know if you didn't read the link ?

What is happening today, as we post even,
would pierce your heart if you knew....
it did as many watched when HE was pierced (and before then, such brutal vicious cruel violence to HIM, our SAVIOR
as vividly described in Scripture, and revealed more fully than english can , in the link.

I did read through the link but didn't want to dwell on that because it brings up some unorthodox theories and didn't want to derail my thread.

I don't know what you are talking about happening today or what that has to do with this thread but I would request that you cease implying you know what I know or what I've done or read. Thanks

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I don't know what you are talking about happening today or what that has to do with this thread

THe current executions today, both for people because of their faith, and otherwise.

I did read through the link but didn't want to dwell on that because it brings up some unorthodox theories and didn't want to derail my thread.

No theories and nothing unorthodox being promoted by me.
The link describes in gruesome
detail
BRUISING of Y'SHUA and Paul the Apostle -
^^
BRUISING was the connection/ key point here (referring to
your reference to bruising )
that is often unknown because in
english it is not often described very well at all.

It is devastating to read the details of the flesh torn off
of the body of our SAVIOR Y'SHUA
by the whipping HE was given
and the other details of HIS execution.
(these are neither orthodox nor unorthodox: simply
flesh torn from HIS BODY
until HIS bones could be seen,
and HIS back one complete bloody mess) .

FOr anyone to be "hardly" devastated by the
torture and execution of
the SAVIOR JESUS described in
such detail is incomprehensible to me.
(I wasn't presuming to know what you know or don't know or read or didn't read; just noting that
everyone I know who reads the description
is very moved by it ("pierced to the heart" | devastated) seeing what
OUR SAVIOR went thru
because of our sins; HE SUFFERED
so EXTREMELY in our place.)

 

[Hoshiyya]

There are certain types in the Bible, archetypes, patterns, etc. One of them is the martyr-prophet, sometimes symbolically called Eliyahu. The Biblical "trinity" is that of the Father, the Son, and the Prophet. A good and a bad version of this trinity is found in the book of revelation.

The good version is that of the Creator, the Sar Panim and Eliyahu (symbolic name for both John the Baptist and the end-time servants of God), and the evil version is that of Hasatan, Abaddon (Revelation 9:11) and the "False Prophet".

The fictional story of Judith portrays a similar hierarchy in the relationship between the King (Nebuchadnezzar) and the general (Holofernes) though it doesn't include a prophet.

 

[Lulav]

THe current executions today, both for people because of their faith, and otherwise.

I am quite aware of it and in fact watching a couple of videos about it is what spurned this thread to develop.

No theories and nothing unorthodox being promoted by me.
The link describes in gruesome
detail
BRUISING of Y'SHUA and Paul the Apostle -
^^
BRUISING was the connection/ key point here (referring to
your reference to bruising )
that is often unknown because in
english it is not often described very well at all.

It is devastating to read the details of the flesh torn off
of the body of our SAVIOR Y'SHUA
by the whipping HE was given
and the other details of HIS execution.
(these are neither orthodox nor unorthodox: simply
flesh torn from HIS BODY
until HIS bones could be seen,
and HIS back one complete bloody mess) .

FOr anyone to be "hardly" devastated by the
torture and execution of
the SAVIOR JESUS described in
such detail is incomprehensible to me.
(I wasn't presuming to know what you know or don't know or read or didn't read; just noting that
everyone I know who reads the description
is very moved by it ("pierced to the heart" | devastated) seeing what
OUR SAVIOR went thru
because of our sins; HE SUFFERED
so EXTREMELY in our place.)

Jeff, when I read this:

You might be devastated to find 'bruised' and everything associated with this concerning MESSIAH and PAUL in the NEW TESTAMENT as revealed in http://essene.com/History&Essenes/Exec.htm

It seemed to me that you were saying that I would be 'upset' to find out that there were more references to bruise than what I've found, I took this by what you quoted of me saying. I awoke with a devastating migraine today that still isn't gone so that seems to have clouded my perception of what you posted. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

As far as the link, I didn't read the whole thing, but did pick up on the part about Paul being stoned and that Yeshua was stoned as well. I don't want to get into that here because it will cause further derailement but if you would like I'll split this thread and we can talk about it in another thread. I'd like to keep this about John's beheading and the saints in heaven being beheaded for their testimony.

Along time ago I read a 'recount' of what happened to Yeshua, I'm thinking it was written by Alfred Edersheim but not sure, it was long ago and I know I can't bring myself to read it again. I can't watch Schindler's List even to this day , it does more than devastate me.

 

[Hoshiyya]

Beheading something symbolically represents removing headship. The phrase "to cut off the head of the snake" refers to deposing the leader of a group in order to destroy the group. It is synonymous with "strike the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered."

I remember a story that begins with an emperor watching a play. The play includes a character magically causing the head of a dancing man to lift off his shoulders. The dancing man collapses. The emperor is shocked, taking it as an evil omen that he will be dethroned and his empire collapse, as he is the head of the empire.

While fiction, this scene would fit perfectly into several stories in the Bible. Pharaoh, Nebuchadnezzar and both Herods all received omens that they interpreted as referring to their fall.

It seems God and the angels like to warn the leaders of the world and keep them more informed than the general populace, regardless of their personal morality.

Maybe Herod thought he could reverse an eventual fall, by beheading the leader of the movement that he thought would cause his fall. And at that time, John apparently was that leader. I find it unlikely that he would behead an important figure like John ONLY to please a girl.

(As it happened, many of John's disciples simply joined Yeshua's movement, and of course, Yeshua himself might in some sense be called a part of John's movement, as he was baptized by him.)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

As Yochanan the immerser himself recognized "he was not worthy to untie MESSIAH'S sandals"
I think rather Yochanan was a bit player in YHWH'S PLAN of SALVATION in Y'SHUA.

 

[Hoshiyya]

As Yochanan the immerser himself recognized "he was not worthy to untie MESSIAH'S sandals"
I think rather Yochanan was a bit player in YHWH'S PLAN of SALVATION in Y'SHUA.

Note sure what you mean by "bit player". He baptized Yeshua. Yeshua referred to him as Elijah and said "Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist".

 

[Lulav]

I look at John as doing the job of the priest who would be the one to 'ordain' one for priesthood. Yeshua it is said was about 30 years old when he came upon John at the Jordon. John had probably been 'ordained' by one of those in the Essence community who were also of the priesthood. John was six months older than Yeshua.

Many think Yeshua's baptism was for repentance like all the others coming to John but I like to think it was a ritual immersion before being ordained into the Priesthood.

John tells him that He (Yeshua) should be immersing him (John) but Yeshua replied that John needed to do it so that all 'righteousness was fulfilled'.