Why such a seeming contrast in NDE accounts where people saw hell... and heaven?

[Biblicist]

Why does there seem to be such contrast between NDE accounts.....even the ones in which somebody has met with Messiah Jesus/Yehoshua?

We shouldn't be all that surprised that these so called accounts differ as people can only make up things in accordance with what they have previously been taught. That's why so many of them try and peddle various heresys and wacky doctrines as they simple don't know any better.

 

[DennisTate]

We shouldn't be all that surprised that these so called accounts differ as people can only make up things in accordance with what they have previously been taught. That's why so many of them try and peddle various heresys and wacky doctrines as they simple don't know any better.

"Heaven is for Real" by a three year old near death experiencer and his pastor father was truly impressive.

 

[Messy]

We shouldn't be all that surprised that these so called accounts differ as people can only make up things in accordance with what they have previously been taught. That's why so many of them try and peddle various heresys and wacky doctrines as they simple don't know any better.

Yes, I saw that one from Angelica and I was disturbed. Some things were Biblical, but pastors going to hell for not paying tithes? Then everyone goes to hell because it's 30 percent, not 10. And the pastor with a huge income who has enough to tithe can go to heaven, yet the one that gets just enough to live can't even have that and do everything for free. And Jesus didn't want women to wear make up. It really sounds as if they see what they have been taught. Isn't it forbidden to speak to the dead? She spoke with Michael Jackson and another girl.

 

[eagle48]

Angelica also saw teenagers in Hell. I know people have different opinions on this subject; I believe the age of accountability starts at twenty from the scriptures listed.

Number 14:29 The carcasses of you who have complained against Me shall fall in this wilderness, all of you who were numbered, according to your entire number, from twenty years old and above. Num. 14:31 But your little ones, whom you said would be victims, I will bring in, and they shall know the land which you have despised.

Number 32:11 Surely none of the men who came up from Egypt, from twenty years old and above, shall see the land of which I swore to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob because they have not wholly followed Me. Num. 32:12 except Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Kenizzite, and Joshua the son of Nun, for they have wholly followed the Lord. Num. 32:13 So the Lord's anger was aroused against Israel, and He made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until all the generation that had done evil in the sight of the Lord was gone.

I read where it is Jewish custom that a child becomes an adult at the age of thirteen, therefore thirteen is the age of accountability. The Lord could have set the age at thirteen years old and above but he didn't. He called children nineteen and younger, little ones.

These scriptures show me the Lord didn't hold children under twenty accountable for rebelling in the desert and most teenagers rebel. After raising teenagers I believe they were probably doing most of the complaining.

 

[DennisTate]

Angelica also saw teenagers in Hell. I know people have different opinions on this subject; I believe the age of accountability starts at twenty from the scriptures listed.

Number 14:29 The carcasses of you who have complained against Me shall fall in this wilderness, all of you who were numbered, according to your entire number, from twenty years old and above. Num. 14:31 But your little ones, whom you said would be victims, I will bring in, and they shall know the land which you have despised.

Number 32:11 Surely none of the men who came up from Egypt, from twenty years old and above, shall see the land of which I swore to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob because they have not wholly followed Me. Num. 32:12 except Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Kenizzite, and Joshua the son of Nun, for they have wholly followed the Lord. Num. 32:13 So the Lord's anger was aroused against Israel, and He made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until all the generation that had done evil in the sight of the Lord was gone.

I read where it is Jewish custom that a child becomes an adult at the age of thirteen, therefore thirteen is the age of accountability. The Lord could have set the age at thirteen years old and above but he didn't. He called children nineteen and younger, little ones.

These scriptures show me the Lord didn't hold children under twenty accountable for rebelling in the desert and most teenagers rebel. After raising teenagers I believe they were probably doing most of the complaining.

This is certainly a serious aspect of this subject.

The word in Hebrew translated "forever" actually means "until the end of conditions last" so part of the answer may have been given to the church back in 1943 to Dr. George Ritchie.


Dr. George Ritchie's Near-Death Experience

d. His Description of the Horrors of Hell

They were still somewhere on the surface of the Earth; but no living person or beings of light could be seen. Before them was a plain jammed with hordes of spirits who are the most miserable and angriest beings he has ever seen. Many were engaged in hand-to-hand combat with no weapons - trying in vain to hurt and kill those who didn't agree with them. A lot of verbal abuse could be heard between them as their thoughts could be heard by everyone around them the moment they are thought. Ritchie is horrified as he wonders what living in such a realm would be like - a place where you cannot hide from who you really are. These spirits were locked into destructive thought-patterns, rage and uncontrollable lust. Some were trying in vain to get sexual gratification from each other. The wailing coming from the hordes of unsatisfied spirits was tremendous. Other spirits were in despair saying things such as, "I always knew!" and "Didn't I warn you!" Ritchie realizes this place is truly hell. Their obsessive thoughts and emotions extended beyond the physical realm and into the spiritual realm where they cannot be satisfied. Yet there was nothing preventing any of the poor spirits in these realms from leaving. There was no condemnation coming from Jesus either - only compassion for these miserable spirits. Ritchie realizes Jesus hadn't abandoned any of them here. Instead they fled from the light to escape from having the darkness of their heart from being revealed.

e. His Observations of the Temple of Wisdom

They then travel to a completely different realm where some kind of enormous university is located. Spirits dressed as monks busily and happily engaged in some form of artistic behavior or research. An enormous library exists here where all the important books of the universe are assembled. Ritchie asks Jesus if this is heaven. These are the spirits of people who grew beyond selfish desires while on Earth; but, like the spirits in hell, these spirits cannot see Jesus either.

f. His Vision of the Heavenly City

Ritchie is then taken into outer space toward a distant city made of brilliant light - similar in description to the heavenly city in the Book of Revelation (see also Revelation 21:10-27.) This is the place where people go who have become like Jesus while on Earth - a place where love is the dominant focus of life. This is heaven he realizes; but he is not allowed to enter it. Instead, Jesus shows him the future of Earth and is told to return to his physical body. At this point, Ritchie is revived from death.

There is evidence that suggests that Ezekiel chapter 37 is not limited to being a one time event but instead will happen as many times as the Word - Logos wishes to replicate a moment in what we think of as the past and then spin off a new branch of time in which more of the Holy Spirit is poured out and some people who failed to come to God under the previous conditions do repent under that new set of circumstances.

 

[Biblicist]

Yes, I saw that one from Angelica and I was disturbed. Some things were Biblical, but pastors going to hell for not paying tithes? Then everyone goes to hell because it's 30 percent, not 10. And the pastor with a huge income who has enough to tithe can go to heaven, yet the one that gets just enough to live can't even have that and do everything for free. And Jesus didn't want women to wear make up. It really sounds as if they see what they have been taught. Isn't it forbidden to speak to the dead? She spoke with Michael Jackson and another girl.

I guess that I need to be careful with this particular thread as I could very easily break about a dozen or so forum rules. Needless to say, we should all ignore these so called visits to heaven and I would put them into the same category as stories about Donald Duck and Captain America; though these two characters have the advantage in that they are at least a bit more believable than most of these foolish visitation stories.

These foolish visitation accounts are nothing less than a blight on the Body of Christ - an absolutely shameful development.

 

[Alithis]

I must laugh..folks are discrediting the testimony of others by a measure that is not even bible based. Accountability of sin begins the moment you become aware of conscience and you willfully act against it..
Interestingly i dnt recall a pastor or any one going to hell..for not tithing or for any single act..listen carfully..the lord says i spoke to them for many years and they would not repent..in short the ended in hell from unrepentant rebellion... God is no respecter of persons he is gracious to the repentant heart..he wills that all would repent.. but he does not contradict himself with words that dont match his actions.he is just.listen again to angelicas testimony then go read all the parables.. carefully.but dont discredit a testimony based purely on ones own opinion. And yes im aware it is the most uncomfortable account to the osas crowd.

 

[woodpecker]

Children in hell? Wow, how could a just and gracious God send children to hell? Scientist have said the mind (brain) can not even make rational decisions until the age of 21 yrs, that is how long it takes to develop.

If there are children in hell, God foresaw they would of never repented...still a child in hell, well that is overwhelming to my heart and mind.

 

[woodpecker]

Children in hell? Wow, how could a just and gracious God send children to hell? Scientist have said the mind (brain) can not even make rational decisions until the age of 21 yrs, that is how long it takes to develop.

If there are children in hell, God foresaw they would of never repented...still a child in hell, well that is overwhelming to my heart and mind.

And the tithing thing...that was OT FOR THE PEOPLE TO HELP THE PRIEST.

 

[Alithis]

Children in hell? Wow, how could a just and gracious God send children to hell? Scientist have said the mind (brain) can not even make rational decisions until the age of 21 yrs, that is how long it takes to develop.

If there are children in hell, God foresaw they would of never repented...still a child in hell, well that is overwhelming to my heart and mind.

interesting ,yet science says they can vote at 18.. i was 7 years old when i have clear recollection of knowingly and willfully sinning.. it ain't rocket science. i trust God over mans fickle and ever changing science .

 

[WalksWithChrist]

I guess that I need to be careful with this particular thread as I could very easily break about a dozen or so forum rules. Needless to say, we should all ignore these so called visits to heaven and I would put them into the same category as stories about Donald Duck and Captain America; though these two characters have the advantage in that they are at least a bit more believable than most of these foolish visitation stories.

These foolish visitation accounts are nothing less than a blight on the Body of Christ - an absolutely shameful development.

You have presented no evidence to backup your statement. And I have learned not to take folks at their word when they make summary dismissals.

 

[CGL1023]

My wife gave me a truly shockingly scary near death experience account to watch yesterday. I have already watched 48 minutes and I think that this would make a good discussion:

Angelica Zambrano (23 Hours Dead) Visits Heaven & Hell (with English voice-over) - GNLi:Christian Videos
Angelica Zambrano (23 Hours Dead) Visits Heaven & Hell (with English voice-over)





Why does there seem to be such contrast between NDE accounts.....even the ones in which somebody has met with Messiah Jesus/Yehoshua?

These stories are non-scriptural and certainly cannot be relied as the Word of God can be relied on. There is undoubtedly some truth in these stories but they must be rejected as untrue for they are not flawless, not 100% true -- so says the Word of God.

 

[DennisTate]

These stories are non-scriptural and certainly cannot be relied as the Word of God can be relied on. There is undoubtedly some truth in these stories but they must be rejected as untrue for they are not flawless, not 100% true -- so says the Word of God.

That is what I also thought for the first five years that I researched them............... Now I am of the belief that near death experiences that include a "life review" are probably meetings with the Word/ Logos.... Messiah Yeshua - Jesus in his glorified form....... and He is keeping a covenant made with humanity as explained by Baruch the friend and scribe for Jeremiah.



Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, Prophecy Of Baruch Chapter 6

"[6] For my angel is with you: And I myself will demand an account of your souls. "


The calibre of a near death experience that includes the life review..... is on an entirely different level from a mere out of the body experience..........

 

[DennisTate]

You have presented no evidence to backup your statement. And I have learned not to take folks at their word when they make summary dismissals.

I was tempted to dismiss near death experience accounts at first myself because I was so convinced of the "soul sleep" theory..... but I am sure glad that I kept on researching them.....................


Dr. George Ritchie's Near-Death Experience

c. His Experience of the "Receiving Station"



Jesus then takes Ritchie to another realm and is shown a kind of "receiving station" where spirits would arrive in a deep hypnotic sleep because of a particular religious belief they held to be true. Here there were "angels" trying to arouse them and help them realize, "God is truly a God of the living and that they did not have to lie around sleeping until Gabriel or someone came along blowing on a horn." These are the spirits of people who believe they must sleep in their grave until the second coming of Christ (i.e., soul sleep.)

 

[Alithis]

I guess that I need to be careful with this particular thread as I could very easily break about a dozen or so forum rules. Needless to say, we should all ignore these so called visits to heaven and I would put them into the same category as stories about Donald Duck and Captain America; though these two characters have the advantage in that they are at least a bit more believable than most of these foolish visitation stories.

These foolish visitation accounts are nothing less than a blight on the Body of Christ - an absolutely shameful development.

I have to say Biblicist ... your correct to take care ..

when you think about it-in that one post you may have discredited part of Paul's testimony and the entire book of revelations...

 

[Alithis]

re angelicas testimony

These stories are non-scriptural and certainly cannot be relied as the Word of God can be relied on. There is undoubtedly some truth in these stories but they must be rejected as untrue for they are not flawless, not 100% true -- so says the Word of God.

could you be more specific ?
which scriptures do they contradict ?

 

[woodpecker]

I believe many christians never experience God in a supernatural way for they believe only such things could happen to those in the bible...when I stopped telling the Holy Spirit what He can do and can't, God blew the top off the box I kept Him in

Of course all things are to be tested and dicerned. if Paul, John and others could be taken to heaven and return why can't you or I, ...dreams, visions, healings and more still happen today. HALLELUJAH

 

[Alithis]

I believe many christians never experience God in a supernatural way for they believe only such things could happen to those in the bible...when I stopped telling the Holy Spirit what He can do and can't, God blew the top off the box I kept Him in

Of course all things are to be tested and dicerned. if Paul, John and others could be taken to heaven and return why can't you or I, ...dreams, visions, hearlings and more still happen today. HALLELUJAH

I agree ..
I think one thing is what people do after the fact ..
in angelica's case neither fame nor profit is sought .
so her only motive for sharing is to get ridiculed ?? that's not much of a motive to fabricate something lol.
she stated in later testimonies that the greatest ridicule never came from the world but the church ....
very sad that

 

[woodpecker]

I agree ..
I think one thing is what people do after the fact ..
in angelica's case neither fame nor profit is sought .
so her only motive for sharing is to get ridiculed ?? that's not much of a motive to fabricate something lol.
she stated in later testimonies that the greatest ridicule never came from the world but the church ....
very sad that

Amen

 

[WalksWithChrist]

I was tempted to dismiss near death experience accounts at first myself because I was so convinced of the "soul sleep" theory..... but I am sure glad that I kept on researching them.....................


Dr. George Ritchie's Near-Death Experience

I still remember reading that a while back. It seems profoundly wasteful to be floating around after death asleep because you believe you should be.
Sounds a lot like life. So many of us are bound by our beliefs. A simple "I can't do it" belief can hold a person back their whole life. This is why it's always important to be critical of our beliefs.