Why Must The Flood Be Global And Not Local? Checking The Hebrew!

Justatruthseeker

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1. & 2. Oh I see, so God calls forth every species of two by two animals from all over the global from every ecosystem on the earth into the ark, floods the whole earth in record time -- that is 40 days -- puts their habitats under water for a whole year and then sends them off two by two back to the wastelands they once called home?

In the aftermath, there would have been a global famine.

3. It was a large regional flood and many of the animals were no doubt Noah's personal livestock.

1. & 2. What - not enough water available for you?

http://www.theguardian.com/science/...underground-ocean-three-times-that-on-surface

What existing habitats, what wasteland? They had barely begun to spread on the earth at this time - which is why those fossils are found in such a limited area - remember? They didn't have all that far to go to get back to Noah. It's not our fault evolutionist's have misconstrued the physical evidence - even if the evidence tells you mankind's start was in one specific area - from which he spread outwards. They have misplaced it just a few miles southward, but they were close. But then the Bible had already told them the general area long before.

Why would there be a famine? Meat eaters certainly had all they could scrounge, lying all about. Same with clumps of vegetation for the veggies, and plus seeds are already in the ground - just waiting for the water to recede and light to start the process all over again. I can grow a lawn in a few weeks. Don't think all the worlds trees can feed things for a bit till that lawn is ready to be mowed?

3. Which goes against even their claims of mankind's beginning. Isn't this exactly what is claimed we see in evolution? Mankind spreading outwards from one region - and if you check, also the fossils of animals found with man?

In case all of you do not realize it yet - fossilization only occurs during catastrophes, when things are buried rapidly. Don't believe that? Then go find me some bones in the process of fossilization, from say anytime in the last 2,500 years?

Besides their flawed dating - the data exactly confirms the Bibles account. Those fossils of man are found only in a limited area. But, the strata they are found in (sedimentary layers) are found worldwide. Showing the true impossibility of it being confined to a local event. The other assertions are also void, being as man and those animals created with him had only begun to spread upon the earth. As confirmed by the data once again.

No one is objecting to the data - just man's interpretation of that data. Be that man - or woman - a Creationist or an Evolutionist.

EDIT:

If we believe the evolutionary story, mankind's descendant's stayed in one area for hundreds of thousands of years while evolving - and only in the last 12,000 began that outward spread. Mixed up the start - and are a little off on the dates - but otherwise, yes, I am certainly not objecting to any data - just flawed interpretations of it.

Such as people insisting that finches that interbreed and produce fertile offspring are separate species.
 
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SkyWriting

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SkyWriting

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Please don't forget every animal species belongs to a very specific ecosystem and requires a specific climate in order to survive.

God picked these animals....then did not hang them out to dry.
 
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SkyWriting

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I agree.
Next, you should look at the actual evidence to see if it is consistent with the story.
Then you should draw a conclusion based on the evidence.

The majority of the Bible shines as a beacon of Accuracy.
My conclusion is the entire collection is from God and accurate.
 
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SkyWriting

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classicalhero

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If the flood covered all the mountains on the planet, then the ark rose to such a level in the atmosphere that none of the animals on board could actually breathe. There are over 100 mountains over 23,622 feet high . The vast majority of ark dwellers would suffocate for the lack of oxygen.

Indeed, the water level rose to such a height that it was above the clouds that cause rain. Rain can only come from oceans but the flood is suggesting that the amount of water on the planet tripled or quadrupled. And where did it all drain afterwards?

Noah's ark was floating for about a year at stratospheric levels (26,000+ feet) as Mt. Everest is 29,042 feet high. Nearly all animals would have died for the lack of oxygen and from exposure to below zero temperatures.
What you are forgetting that even evolutionists don't believe the current height of the mountains has been static, so why are you?

@SkyWriter, if you look at the times the Hebrew word for"world is use" in many instances it is used with the Hebrew word for "earth", which shows how the second Hebrew word is generally used in it's primary sense for the planet and not a specific land. That exactly what my Expositionary dictionary states.

EDIT. If you look at the NT when they make reference to the flood the global nature of the flood only makes sense otherwise the references in the NT are worthless.
[verse=Matthew 24:37-39,kjv_apocrypha]But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.[/verse]
If the flood was local then that means God judgement is local also, but that makes a mockery of what jesus was saying in Matthew 24
[verse=Hebrews 11:7,kjv_apocrypha]By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.[/verse]
Specifically the word "world" is used in conjunction with the flood meaning that is how the early Christians and how the Jews viewed the flood.
[verse=2 Peter 2:4-5,kjv_apocrypha]
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgement;
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;[/verse]Yet again the flood is for the world.
[verse=2 Peter 3:5-7,kjv_apocrypha]For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgement and perdition of ungodly men.[/verse]
Peter reminds us that first the earth was formed out of water, since the early universe was mostly water and then the world was judged by God with a flood to cover the earth with water again and the fact that the earth is reserved for future judgement. In fact Peter warns against people like the OP in verses 3&4.
[verse=2 Peter 3:3-4,kjv_apocrypha]Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.[/verse]
 
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Justatruthseeker

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The dove bringing back the olive leaf is evidence of a local flood. Lets not forget the Bible speaks nothing of God re-floraling the earth.

The different soils different vegetation require would have been destroyed in one fell swoop anyways.

Please, you can plant any plant existing in the same soil and every one will grow.

Doesn't say it brought back an olive branch taken off a tree - just that it brought back an olive branch. An olive branch that could have came from a newly sprouted tree. Because apparently when Noah landed - there was ample ground already not inundated by water. You assume that water was not receding during that year.

And why ignore the sedimentary strata the fossils of man are found in - and it being a worldwide sedimentary strata, not local? Instead focusing on a twig.

Fig trees that grow high up on maintains, in mere cracks.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Anjeer_Kouhi_tree.jpg
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/mountain-fig-483687.jpg

https://www.nwf.org/News-and-Magazines/National-Wildlife/Animals/Archives/2000/Big-on-Figs.aspx
"The island´s figs grow in locations as diverse as rocky shores, mountain tops and even the cracks in older buildings in the provincial capital of Manado."

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/growth-stages-fig-tree-55985.html
"Although increasing and thickening leaves indicates root production, roots grow slower than foliage so take longer to settle into soil. Roots often grow and thicken within three weeks."

So at minimum only less than 3 weeks is required, since roots take after the foliage.
 
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random person

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random person

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Please, you can plant any plant existing in the same soil and every one will grow.

Doesn't say it brought back an olive branch taken off a tree - just that it brought back an olive branch. An olive branch that could have came from a newly sprouted tree. Because apparently when Noah landed - there was ample ground already not inundated by water. You assume that water was not receding during that year.

And why ignore the sedimentary strata the fossils of man are found in - and it being a worldwide sedimentary strata, not local? Instead focusing on a twig.

Fig trees that grow high up on maintains, in mere cracks.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Anjeer_Kouhi_tree.jpg
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/mountain-fig-483687.jpg

https://www.nwf.org/News-and-Magazines/National-Wildlife/Animals/Archives/2000/Big-on-Figs.aspx
"The island´s figs grow in locations as diverse as rocky shores, mountain tops and even the cracks in older buildings in the provincial capital of Manado."

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/growth-stages-fig-tree-55985.html
"Although increasing and thickening leaves indicates root production, roots grow slower than foliage so take longer to settle into soil. Roots often grow and thicken within three weeks."

So at minimum only less than 3 weeks is required, since roots take after the foliage.

The earth flooded over for a year would have destroyed all plant-life and its seeds. Fig trees REQUIRE photosynthesis!

It fact it would have changed the geography of the world, why weren't the Euphrates and Tigris completely destroyed by tons of mud and silt and earth deposited into them?
 
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Justatruthseeker

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The earth flooded over for a year would have destroyed all plant-life and its seeds. Fig trees REQUIRE photosynthesis!

It fact it would have changed the geography of the world, why weren't the Euphrates and Tigris completely destroyed by tons of mud and silt and earth deposited into them?

I find that difficult to believe.

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-06-28/news/mn-531_1_seeds

I think if some can last 365 years in water - quite a few can last a year at least, can't they?

http://www.jstor.org/stable/2435353?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

https://books.google.com/books?id=Qd6iN2k49SkC&pg=PA173&lpg=PA173&dq=seeds+sprout+after+years+underwater&source=bl&ots=L4amcwqnpV&sig=D0y9Su61Yk9tkHsXlyC_pWmUqpI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CE8Q6AEwB2oVChMI_amyn4XwxgIVgpiACh2M5w_n#v=onepage&q=seeds sprout after years underwater&f=false

And I already showed you were fig trees germinate and produce foliage in less than three weeks. The roots grow slower and usually begin to thicken in 3 weeks. It is the foliage that is an indicator of root growth.

No, the earth flooded and then the water began immediately to recede. It took a year for Noah's boat to "drift" close enough to what was then an island (mountain tops) to be within flight range of a bird.

What makes you think those are the same rivers as before the flood - and not formed after from runoff as the water receded? Except you choose to believe they are the same?

Are we ignoring the sedimentary layers these rivers are carved through - layers laid down before the river began.

When I said trees can feed the veggies - you should of took that with the clumps of floating vegetation that would have been there, not trying to imply trees grew underwater.
 
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random person

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I find that difficult to believe.

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-06-28/news/mn-531_1_seeds

I think if some can last 365 years in water - quite a few can last a year at least, can't they?

http://www.jstor.org/stable/2435353?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

https://books.google.com/books?id=Qd6iN2k49SkC&pg=PA173&lpg=PA173&dq=seeds+sprout+after+years+underwater&source=bl&ots=L4amcwqnpV&sig=D0y9Su61Yk9tkHsXlyC_pWmUqpI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CE8Q6AEwB2oVChMI_amyn4XwxgIVgpiACh2M5w_n#v=onepage&q=seeds sprout after years underwater&f=false

And I already showed you were fig trees germinate and produce foliage in less than three weeks. The roots grow slower and usually begin to thicken in 3 weeks. It is the foliage that is an indicator of root growth.

No, the earth flooded and then the water began immediately to recede. It took a year for Noah's boat to "drift" close enough to what was then an island (mountain tops) to be within flight range of a bird.

What makes you think those are the same rivers as before the flood - and not formed after from runoff as the water receded? Except you choose to believe they are the same?

Are we ignoring the sedimentary layers these rivers are carved through - layers laid down before the river began.

When I said trees can feed the veggies - you should of took that with the clumps of floating vegetation that would have been there, not trying to imply trees grew underwater.

Well all that shows is that weeds are darn well invincible.

None of this replicates a global flood, in which important climates, soils, and seasonal are destroyed.

There are over 100 mountains in the world that are over 23,000 feet in height, Mt Everest is over 29,000 feet in height.

The air is cold and thin at this height, mountain climbers require oxygen tanks to climb the highest heights of Everest and can only climb it in the month of May to avoid the 100+ mile an hour winds.

And where did the all that water go to, it would have had to triple or quadriple in volume compared to the volume of water over the whole earth today? Where did the flood waters go?

Do you know where the ancient Hebrew thought the water probably went to, back to the great deep that all the land of earth floats upon. They believed the whole earth was one great giant piece of land sitting upon great pillars.

Ancient-Hebrew-view-of-universe.png


Their universe was a giant "snowglobe".
 
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