Why Mormons Leave

[Rescued One]

If you were obedient, you wouldn't have doubts. :O

 

[ToBeLoved]

Top 5 Myths and Truths about Why Committed Mormons Leave the Church

 

[ToBeLoved]

The Excommunication of John Dehlin

 

[John Davidson]

I left the LDS church because I decided there were to many falsehoods in their theology.

 

[Rescued One]

Top 5 Myths and Truths about Why Committed Mormons Leave the Church

That took up a lot of time!

"How can we help those who have left?"
Answer: We aren't the ones who need help!

"Have faith in your Heavenly Father and Mother."
Answer: Why? There is no heavenly mother. Joseph Smith didn't even tell anyone to have faith in her. Neither does God's word, the Bible.

 

[Rescued One]

I left the LDS church because I decided there were to many falsehoods in their theology.

I left because I started reading my Bible and praying for God to teach me truth.

 

[fatboys]

I left because I started reading my Bible and praying for God to teach me truth.

Your not asking a question and this topic is against the rules

 

[withwonderingawe]

The Excommunication of John Dehlin

John Dehlin is part of the newer exodus out of the church by political progressives, his real sticking point is his disagreement with the Church's stand on gay marriage. How many churches would allow someone to start preaching the false doctrines he was expressing without excommunicating them?

 

[ToBeLoved]

John Dehlin is part of the newer exodus out of the church by politic progressives, his real sticking point is his disagreement with the Church's stand on gay marriage. How many churches would allow someone to start preaching the false doctrines he was expressing without excommunicating them?

I think you are way off base with this one.

Because John Dehlin does mormonstories, so excommunicating him is pretty high profile. What I think is that what he was expressing is a valid concern. I mean, this religion is 'family orientated' so the issue is that families and kids grow up in it. I didn't get that it was about 'gay marriage' but it is about gay and lesbian kids that grow up in this.

So what you are doing is turning your backs on those who are gay in the church, I don't think it is about 'marriage' per se and anyways you do those family sealings not marriage anyway. So when you 'seal' a family together, they are sealed UNLESS they have a gay child. Then what do they do with that gay child?

So then family's are not sealed together. Christian churches do not want to marry gay couples, but we do not turn on children.

 

[withwonderingawe]

I think you are way off base with this one.

Because John Dehlin does mormonstories, so excommunicating him is pretty high profile. What I think is that what he was expressing is a valid concern. I mean, this religion is 'family orientated' so the issue is that families and kids grow up in it. I didn't get that it was about 'gay marriage' but it is about gay and lesbian kids that grow up in this.

So what you are doing is turning your backs on those who are gay in the church, I don't think it is about 'marriage' per se and anyways you do those family sealings not marriage anyway. So when you 'seal' a family together, they are sealed UNLESS they have a gay child. Then what do they do with that gay child?

So then family's are not sealed together. Christian churches do not want to marry gay couples, but we do not turn on children.

Not really if you know the doctrine of the church. I'll do this without posting a lot of scriptures.

It is the parents responsibility to teach right and wrong, if they don't the sins of the child are on the heads of the parents. On judgment day when they stand before God the Lord will place any "wrath" upon the parents head and forgive the child to the point that he knows the difference between right and wrong. I had a little girl steel my wallet once, her parents taught her to.

But if the child is baptized and makes a covenant to obey God's commandments then he would be held responsible for that covenant (although we're talking about a child here so what their understanding is only the Lord can judge), if he sins and does not repent then he will be judged for them.

So by not baptizing we are saving the child from being responsible before God until they are old enough to really judge and make the commitment for themselves.

There is a second point, no man can sever two masters. To baptized the child and have him make a commitment to obey God's commandment and then to have him live with parents who by example disobey God's commandments is to give him two masters. It's not fair to do to the child. The Church has stepped back and said the parent child relationship is more important than the Church child relationship. When the child is old enough they can then make their own decision about following the Lord or not.

We do the same with children of polygamist, we won't baptize their children until they are 18 and make the decision on their own.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Not really if you know the doctrine of the church. I'll do this without posting a lot of scriptures.

It is the parents responsibility to teach right and wrong, if they don't the sins of the child are on the heads of the parents. On judgment day when they stand before God the Lord will place any "wrath" upon the parents head and forgive the child to the point that he knows the difference between right and wrong. I had a little girl steel my wallet once, her parents taught her to.

But if the child is baptized and makes a covenant to obey God's commandments then he would be held responsible for that covenant (although we're talking about a child here so what their understanding is only the Lord can judge), if he sins and does not repent then he will be judged for them.

So by not baptizing we are saving the child from being responsible before God until they are old enough to really judge and make the commitment for themselves.

There is a second point, no man can sever two masters. To baptized the child and have him make a commitment to obey God's commandment and then to have him live with parents who by example disobey God's commandments is to give him two masters. It's not fair to do to the child. The Church has stepped back and said the parent child relationship is more important than the Church child relationship. When the child is old enough they can then make their own decision about following the Lord or not.

We do the same with children of polygamist, we won't baptize their children until they are 18 and make the decision on their own.

So then can you clarify.

If parents for example have three children, ages 17 yo, 15 yo and 11 yo. They are both Mormon parents active in the church and all three children are active in the church, but are under their parents guardianship.

If the 15 yo, for example, went to his parents and told them that he was only attracted to boys.

What would the parents do in this situation. What would be the recommendation of the Mormon church?

 

[mmksparbud]

if they don't the sins of the child are on the heads of the parents.

The sins of the child are on the heads of the parents??!! Are you sure you want to word it this way?? I have a problem with that line of thinking. I can understand parents having to take responsibility for what the children have done, up to a point. But what did Adam and Eve do to Cain to make him a murderer?---I doubt they mistreated him!! Sometimes no matter how well a child is raised, they turn out wrong. And then, even though a child is raised horribly, they turn out to be God fearing good people. Responsibility for the actions of a child is one thing, paying for the sin of the child is a whole other thing. A child knows the difference between right and wrong, at least between telling the truth and lying I should say- after the age of 5. They are not held accountable for their sins until, at least by Jewish tradition, after the age of 12.
Deu_24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

 

[Rescued One]

Your not asking a question and this topic is against the rules

You can participate in this discussion about Mormonism and ex-Mormons.

 

[Super14LDS]

So then can you clarify.

If parents for example have three children, ages 17 yo, 15 yo and 11 yo. They are both Mormon parents active in the church and all three children are active in the church, but are under their parents guardianship.

If the 15 yo, for example, went to his parents and told them that he was only attracted to boys.

What would the parents do in this situation. What would be the recommendation of the Mormon church?

Gays are welcomed as members and subject to the same standards as straight people. Obviously a guy can't marry another guy as marriage is between a man and a woman per the scriptures including the Proclamation on the Family.

 

[withwonderingawe]

The sins of the child are on the heads of the parents??!! Are you sure you want to word it this way?? I have a problem with that line of thinking. I can understand parents having to take responsibility for what the children have done, up to a point. But what did Adam and Eve do to Cain to make him a murderer?---I doubt they mistreated him!! Sometimes no matter how well a child is raised, they turn out wrong. And then, even though a child is raised horribly, they turn out to be God fearing good people. Responsibility for the actions of a child is one thing, paying for the sin of the child is a whole other thing. A child knows the difference between right and wrong, at least between telling the truth and lying I should say- after the age of 5. They are not held accountable for their sins until, at least by Jewish tradition, after the age of 12.
Deu_24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

MM; But what did Adam and Eve do to Cain to make him a murderer?


Nothing, I'm sure they taught him right from wrong but Cain sinned "wilfully" after he had "received the knowledge of the truth". He loved sin more and was a bad example to his children. His grandson Lamech was a murderer also, and "the earth was filled with violence". (Heb 10:26 and Gen 4 & Gen 6:11)

Rom 5:13 "sin is not imputed when there is no law"

Cain's children were not taught 'Thou shall not kill' so the acts of Cain children are placed on his own head. Our Heavenly Father loses one son to perdition and saves the rest.

Have you heard the saying 'the abused becomes the abuser'? There is always someone who started the abuse cycle and that person will beheld responsible for all sins down the line unto the forth generation. If you'll look up the term "fourth generation" you'll see a lot written about it. In a Sunday school class once I remember someone bring up the idea that if you have a righteous man his influence will affect his family well into the third and forth generation. The same to with an evil man, his influence of sin will affect a family for four generations before they are able to throw it off for something better.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Gays are welcomed as members and subject to the same standards as straight people. Obviously a guy can't marry another guy as marriage is between a man and a woman per the scriptures including the Proclamation on the Family.

So what about the 15 yo in the scenario I presented? No answer?

 

[ToBeLoved]

MM; But what did Adam and Eve do to Cain to make him a murderer?


Nothing, I'm sure they taught him right from wrong but Cain sinned "wilfully" after he had "received the knowledge of the truth". He loved sin more and was a bad example to his children. His grandson Lamech was a murderer also, and "the earth was filled with violence". (Heb 10:26 and Gen 4 & Gen 6:11)

Rom 5:13 "sin is not imputed when there is no law"

Cain's children were not taught 'Thou shall not kill' so the acts of Cain children are placed on his own head. Our Heavenly Father loses one son to perdition and saves the rest.

Have you heard the saying 'the abused becomes the abuser'? There is always someone who started the abuse cycle and that person will beheld responsible for all sins down the line unto the forth generation. If you'll look up the term "fourth generation" you'll see a lot written about it. In a Sunday school class once I remember someone bring up the idea that if you have a righteous man his influence will affect his family well into the third and forth generation. The same to with an evil man, his influence of sin will affect a family for four generations before they are able to throw it off for something better.

What is the answer to her question? Or do you not have one?

Why can't one sentence be clear.

I would fire you guys if you worked for me. No answers after half a page.
The only thing I would let you do is type information from paper to the keyboard. That's it.


Give answer

Explain answer

Maybe JS writes that incoherently and you follow.

 

[withwonderingawe]

If the 15 yo, for example, went to his parents and told them that he was only attracted to boys.

What would the parents do in this situation. What would be the recommendation of the Mormon church?

First he would be given a blessing and prayers would be said for him. He would be told his Father in Heaven loves him. He would be told he is not alone other people suffer with this, it's not a sin. It is acting on it which is the sin just as any sex outside of marriage is. He would be told his eternal being or intelligence is male. He is not a female stuck in a male body, just so he gets that straight. They would be offered some professional counseling to see just where this is coming from, for everyone struggling there is a different story. Then if he can not change his orientation he would have to make some decisions for himself, how much does he really love the Lord. Does he live a life of celibacy and obey the commandments or does he fall into sin.

It could be that this is one of those sins where the sins are placed upon the head of the abuser, it could be this boy has been abused and that's where this is coming from. I said could be, it does sometimes happen that way. It could be there is a predator in his life and this has confused his orientation. We all need to understand just how sexual predators work, how they groom their victims.

 

[withwonderingawe]

What is the answer to her question? Or do you not have one?

Why can't one sentence be clear.

I would fire you guys if you worked for me. No answers after half a page.
The only thing I would let you do is type information from paper to the keyboard. That's it.


Give answer

Explain answer

Maybe JS writes that incoherently and you follow.

I said; Nothing, I'm sure they taught him right from wrong but Cain sinned "wilfully" after he had "received the knowledge of the truth".

 

[ToBeLoved]

I said; Nothing, I'm sure they taught him right from wrong but Cain sinned "wilfully" after he had "received the knowledge of the truth".

So then why do they mind gay or lesbian children or do they not as long as they leave the church when they turn 18 yo?