Why is Messianic Judaism considered Judaism if they believe in Jesus?

[Sammy-San]

I dont understand why Messianic Jews are considered Jews if they believe in the New Testament and follow Jesus. Im not arguing that theyre not Jews, Im just asking why are they considered Jews if they practice Christianity.

My uncle and sister have both said it doesnt make sense that you could practice two religions (Judaism and Christianity) at the same time. While Im open minded about this topic and dont deny that Messianic Jews and Christians, Im asking-what makes them Jewish if theyre Christian?

This is a very confusing subject.

I assume many Messianic Jews are ethnic Jews who converted to Christianity. Jewish is an ethno religious group, and you can be a Jew without practicing Judaism. There are atheist and agnostic Jews, for example. Therefore, the idea that a Jewish person can be a Christian makes sense, but it gets more complicated.

There are Messianic Jews who arent even ethnically Jewish. Im Italian, and I have some Messianic Jews in my family. Ive read that many Messianic Christians arent ethnic Jews either.

So what makes those Christians Jewish, if they arent Jewish by ethnicity? By religion, they believe in Jesus, and while I guess some Jewish sects view Jesus as a good man or even a prophet, overall-Jewish theology views Christ as one of the many false messiahs.

There are some people who ethnically have no connection to Hebrews like the Ashkenazi and Mizrahi Jews have (those 2 groups are related to Hebrews), and some Jewish converts come from a variety of races and ethnicities (Beta Israel Ethiopian Jews, Indian and Iranian Jews, Chinese and Japanese Jews).

But those Jewish groups, despite converting to the religion, practice Judaism and arent considered Christians. What makes people who have converted to Messianic Judaism (a Christian sect) Jews, if they arent Jewish ethnically, and they do believe in Christianity's belief in Jesus?

 

[visionary]

Yeshua is King of the Jews, He created "Judaism" as He presented it to Moses on Mount Sinai. He fulfilled in on earth and told everyone to obey His Commandments. His disciples were zealous in keeping it without a lot of "oral traditions" that is imposed upon Judaism that the Jews keep.

We are seeking to return to the roots and keep Judaism as Yeshua would have us do.

 

[visionary]

People who are Messianic Judaism believe Yeshua is the Messiah and that Judaism is the faith. Judaism with Yeshua is what most Jews practice. Yeshua with Judaism never happened. The Disciples without Judaism never happened. IT wasn't until 135 AD that the persecution from two fronts, separated Messianic Judaism from either Roman Christianity and Jew's Judaism.

Believing in Messianic Judaism doesn't make anyone a Jew. It just has been a majority of Jews were the ones who were keeping it as a faith for centuries. It is not an exclusive faith. Many of us here are gentiles and will remain gentiles. Some here are Jews and they also will remain Jews even though they have faith in Yeshua as the King of Jews Messiah.

 

[Sammy-San]

People who are Messianic Judaism believe Yeshua is the Messiah and that Judaism is the faith. Judaism with Yeshua is what most Jews practice. Yeshua with Judaism never happened. The Disciples without Judaism never happened. IT wasn't until 135 AD that the persecution from two fronts, separated Messianic Judaism from either Roman Christianity and Jew's Judaism.

Believing in Messianic Judaism doesn't make anyone a Jew. It just has been a majority of Jews were the ones who were keeping it as a faith for centuries. It is not an exclusive faith. Many of us here are gentiles and will remain gentiles. Some here are Jews and they also will remain Jews even though they have faith in Yeshua as the King of Jews Messiah.

So why is Messianic Judaism considered Judaism if they believe in Jesus and are Christians (called Yeshua) and the religion of Judaism believes that Jesus is a false messiah? The difference between Judaism and Christianity is that Christians believe in the NT and Jesus.

 

[Lulav]

There are Messianic Jews who arent even ethnically Jewish. Im Italian, and I have some Messianic Jews in my family. Ive read that many Messianic Christians arent ethnic Jews either.

You can call yourself Jewish but that don't make it so. Just like standing in a garage don't make you a car. There are some MJ's that will say they are Jewish, but not in the traditional and acceptable sense. But that doesn't mean that one born Jewish who then believes in the Jewish Messiah then becomes a Christian.

You are right, it is complicated as many things with labels always are.

Just understand , there is Messianic Judaism and there are Messianic Jews as well as Messianic Gentiles.

 

[Lulav]

So why is Messianic Judaism considered Judaism if they believe in Jesus and are Christians (called Yeshua) and the religion of Judaism believes that Jesus is a false messiah? The difference between Judaism and Christianity is that Christians believe in the NT and Jesus.

It's kinda like asking if Christian Scientology is a Christian religion. Again , labels.

Messianic Judaism is for those who are Jewish and have come to saving belief in the Jewish Messiah, Yeshua and wish to continue to honor their culture and beliefs in a Jewish way. There are Gentiles who also believe this should be the real Christianity and worship along side them.

I know there are some who would argue here and some who are Jewish and Christian as well but There is a Eastern and Western way of understanding the New Testement writings,, the Eastern way is a continuation of Judaism that Yeshua taught and lived and the Western way is Greco-Roman influenced.

 

[Sammy-San]

It's kinda like asking if Christian Scientology is a Christian religion. Again , labels.

Messianic Judaism is for those who are Jewish and have come to saving belief in the Jewish Messiah, Yeshua and wish to continue to honor their culture and beliefs in a Jewish way. There are Gentiles who also believe this should be the real Christianity and worship along side them.

I know there are some who would argue here and some who are Jewish and Christian as well but There is a Eastern and Western way of understanding the New Testement writings,, the Eastern way is a continuation of Judaism that Yeshua taught and lived and the Western way is Greco-Roman influenced.

Why do some Gentiles believe MJ is the real Christianity?

 

[Sammy-San]

It's kinda like asking if Christian Scientology is a Christian religion. Again , labels.

Messianic Judaism is for those who are Jewish and have come to saving belief in the Jewish Messiah, Yeshua and wish to continue to honor their culture and beliefs in a Jewish way. There are Gentiles who also believe this should be the real Christianity and worship along side them.

I know there are some who would argue here and some who are Jewish and Christian as well but There is a Eastern and Western way of understanding the New Testement writings,, the Eastern way is a continuation of Judaism that Yeshua taught and lived and the Western way is Greco-Roman influenced.

How does having Jewish customs make their religion not Christianity? Christianity if defined by a belief in Jesus being God dying on the cross for your sins-and having Jewish traditions doesnt take away that fact.

 

[Hoshiyya]

I dont understand why Messianic Jews are considered Jews if they believe in the New Testament and follow Jesus. Im not arguing that theyre not Jews, Im just asking why are they considered Jews if they practice Christianity.

My uncle and sister have both said it doesnt make sense that you could practice two religions (Judaism and Christianity) at the same time. While Im open minded about this topic and dont deny that Messianic Jews and Christians, Im asking-what makes them Jewish if theyre Christian?

This is a very confusing subject.

I assume many Messianic Jews are ethnic Jews who converted to Christianity. Jewish is an ethno religious group, and you can be a Jew without practicing Judaism. There are atheist and agnostic Jews, for example. Therefore, the idea that a Jewish person can be a Christian makes sense, but it gets more complicated.

There are Messianic Jews who arent even ethnically Jewish. Im Italian, and I have some Messianic Jews in my family. Ive read that many Messianic Christians arent ethnic Jews either.

So what makes those Christians Jewish, if they arent Jewish by ethnicity? By religion, they believe in Jesus, and while I guess some Jewish sects view Jesus as a good man or even a prophet, overall-Jewish theology views Christ as one of the many false messiahs.

There are some people who ethnically have no connection to Hebrews like the Ashkenazi and Mizrahi Jews have (those 2 groups are related to Hebrews), and some Jewish converts come from a variety of races and ethnicities (Beta Israel Ethiopian Jews, Indian and Iranian Jews, Chinese and Japanese Jews).

But those Jewish groups, despite converting to the religion, practice Judaism and arent considered Christians. What makes people who have converted to Messianic Judaism (a Christian sect) Jews, if they arent Jewish ethnically, and they do believe in Christianity's belief in Jesus?

You have to distinguish between belief and praxis.

The praxis, the lifestyle, of Messianic Jews is or should be Judaism (not necessarily Ashkenazi Judaism, mind you...)

The belief (the theory) of Messianic Judaism is or should be Judaism with a belief that Yeshua happens to be the Messiah.

The recognition of Yeshua as Messiah in Judaism does not fundamentally alter Judaism anymore than the recognition of Schneerson or Bar Kokva as Messiah.

People are too focused on the theoretical. People should be judged or categorized based on HOW THEY LIVE, not by the thoughts in their head.

But even if we focus on the theoretical as opposed to the actual, the beliefs of Messianic Jews (as opposed to Messianic Gentiles) is or should be typically / traditionally Jewish beliefs.

 

[Hoshiyya]

How does having Jewish customs make their religion not Christianity? Christianity if defined by a belief in Jesus being God dying on the cross for your sins-and having Jewish traditions doesnt take away that fact.

Messianic means the same as Christian, if we look at the most simple definitions, but does not carry the same baggage. It makes much more sense than "Christian Judaism".

However I again emphasize the need for defining people according to their actions, rather than purely by their beliefs.

 

[visionary]

Christian was an insulting name back in Acts. Paul was known as a leader of the sect of Nazarenes. Maybe we both should give up the terms Christian and Judaism and take on the term Nazarenes. So really it is not the terms that are important but the heart and the focus in words, actions, born again, and depth of faith in Yeshua that makes the difference.

 

[Danoh]

I find the answer rather simple - Messianic Jews are those Jews within Judaism who believe Jesus was/is the Messiah promised Israel - John 1:

41. He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.
42. And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.
43. The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me.
44. Now Philip was of Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter.
45. Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
46. And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
47. Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
48. Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
49. Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

Even a simple reading through Matthew, Mark, Luke and John reveal that not all Jews believed on Him in that way.

If you look at this through traditionally "Christian" eyes, it throws it's actual sense off.

For the "Jews" part of "Messianic Jews" is in the fact of passages like Matthew 23:

1. Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2. Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3. All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

What did He just remind His followers to continue to observe?

And in Matthew 24, why did He instruct his disciples to pray that the time of Israel's coming trouble not "come on a Sabbath day?"

One could go on as there are many passages, but the point is that these were Messianic Jews in that they were not only Torah observant Jews but were also Messianic - they believed that the Christ was who Moses in the Law, and the Prophets did say should come.

The Lord made a distinction about this in John one that Paul later reiterates in Romans 2 and 9-11 as to who "an Israelite indeed" was - he who was Torah observant Messianic.

Look at it through the Scripture rather than through Christian tradition and the confusion is no longer.

 

[Hoshiyya]

Christian was an insulting name back in Acts. Paul was known as a leader of the sect of Nazarenes. Maybe we both should give up the terms Christian and Judaism and take on the term Nazarenes. So really it is not the terms that are important but the heart and the focus in words, actions, born again, and depth of faith in Yeshua that makes the difference.

"Christian was an insulting name back in Acts. "

I have heard that many times, and I don't see where the idea comes from. If Christian is offensive to you, then Messianic is offensive to you as well.

"Maybe we both should give up the terms Christian and Judaism and take on the term Nazarenes. "

Christian is not a practical term for us, relative to identifying who we are, but Judaism is, at least for me.

"really it is not the terms that are important but the heart and the focus in words, actions, born again, and depth of faith in Yeshua that makes the difference."

Yes. And actions count more than a thousand words or thoughts.

Actions > words > thoughts.

 

[danny ski]

I find the answer rather simple - Messianic Jews are those Jews within Judaism who believe Jesus was/is the Messiah promised Israel - John 1:

41. He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.
42. And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.
43. The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me.
44. Now Philip was of Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter.
45. Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
46. And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
47. Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
48. Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
49. Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

Even a simple reading through Matthew, Mark, Luke and John reveal that not all Jews believed on Him in that way.

If you look at this through traditionally "Christian" eyes, it throws it's actual sense off.

For the "Jews" part of "Messianic Jews" is in the fact of passages like Matthew 23:

1. Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2. Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3. All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

What did He just remind His followers to continue to observe?

And in Matthew 24, why did He instruct his disciples to pray that the time of Israel's coming trouble not "come on a Sabbath day?"

One could go on as there are many passages, but the point is that these were Messianic Jews in that they were not only Torah observant Jews but were also Messianic - they believed that the Christ was who Moses in the Law, and the Prophets did say should come.

The Lord made a distinction about this in John one that Paul later reiterates in Romans 2 and 9-11 as to who "an Israelite indeed" was - he who was Torah observant Messianic.

Look at it through the Scripture rather than through Christian tradition and the confusion is no longer.

There are no Jews within Judaism who believe in Jesus. That belief puts them outside of Judaism. And before I here objection, let me just say that we decide what is or is not Judaism. Just like the Catholics decide what is Catholicism, and Muslims and Mormons, etc.

 

[visionary]

"Christian was an insulting name back in Acts. "

I have heard that many times, and I don't see where the idea comes from. If Christian is offensive to you, then Messianic is offensive to you as well.

"Maybe we both should give up the terms Christian and Judaism and take on the term Nazarenes. "

Christian is not a practical term for us, relative to identifying who we are, but Judaism is, at least for me.

"really it is not the terms that are important but the heart and the focus in words, actions, born again, and depth of faith in Yeshua that makes the difference."

Yes. And actions count more than a thousand words or thoughts.

Actions > words > thoughts.

Touchy!!!! We were having a discussion. Scripture indicates as do scholars verify that when the term was first thrown out there, it was not what the believers called themselves but what insult could be given them in the name. This is not mine to argue. It is no biggy, because as a believer, my hope and relationship is not in the name but in Him.

 

[AbbaLove]

There are no Jews within Judaism who believe in Jesus.

Messianic Jews living in Israel have full citizenship rights. Their numbers are growing as never before. The time will come where you too will believe in Yeshua as your Mashiach.

Philippians 2:10-11 Complete Jewish Bible
10 that in honor of the name given Yeshua, every knee will bow in heaven, on earth and under the earth —
11 and every tongue will acknowledge[a]
that Yeshua the Messiah is Adonai to the glory of God the Father.
a. Isaiah 45:23

Messianic Jews are Completely Jewish ~ they believe in Mashiach, Yeshua​

 

[danny ski]

[/SIZE][/FONT]
Messianic Jews living in Israel have full citizenship rights. Their numbers are growing as never before. The time will come where you too will believe in Yeshua as your Mashiach.

Philippians 2:10-11 Complete Jewish Bible
10 that in honor of the name given Yeshua, every knee will bow in heaven, on earth and under the earth —
11 and every tongue will acknowledge[a]
that Yeshua the Messiah is Adonai to the glory of God the Father.
a. Isaiah 45:23

Messianic Jews are Completely Jewish ~ they believe in Mashiach, Yeshua​

I wish Christians would stop with this "completely Jewish" shpil. It's insulting. There's no requirement to believe in anybody else but G-d anywhere in the Torah. It was good enough for Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, etc. It's good enough for me.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

[/SIZE][/FONT]
Messianic Jews living in Israel have full citizenship rights. Their numbers are growing as never before. The time will come where you too will believe in Yeshua as your Mashiach.

Philippians 2:10-11 Complete Jewish Bible
10 that in honor of the name given Yeshua, every knee will bow in heaven, on earth and under the earth —
11 and every tongue will acknowledge[a]
that Yeshua the Messiah is Adonai to the glory of God the Father.
a. Isaiah 45:23

Messianic Jews are Completely Jewish ~ they believe in Mashiach, Yeshua​

Yes, there are Messianic Jews living in Israel with full citizenship rights, just as there are Christians and Muslims living in Israel with full citizenship rights. But what is the official listed religion of these Messianic Jews according to the State of Israel? Hint, it is the same as anyone that went through a Reform, Conservative, or any other non-recognized or non-Orthodox conversion.

 

[Norah63]

Do Messianic Jews call their leaders rabbi?

 

[Sammy-San]

Messianic means the same as Christian, if we look at the most simple definitions, but does not carry the same baggage. It makes much more sense than "Christian Judaism".

However I again emphasize the need for defining people according to their actions, rather than purely by their beliefs.

So you dont think its fair to say you can be religiously Jewish and Christian at the same time? The first Christians were Jews, and Messianic Judaism is probably most similar to what the early Christians practiced, than other Christian sects around today. Judaism (except for some rabbi writings like talmud) doesnt teach anything that contradicts the bible, unlike religions like islam or buddhism. The God of the Torah and NT are the same god.

I may very well be wrong, but thats just what I assume about this topic.