Why is Christianity so confused?

sculleywr

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The problem arises when we try to discuss the topic using the framework found in scripture.


This is the background followed in scripture:


Jesus tells us that in order to be his disciple we need to give up everything and follow him.


What the writer of the text should have written is: Jesus tells us that if we wanted to be found right, we should stop looking to ourselves to provide for our needs and start looking to God to provide for said needs.


When I asked you if you had given up everything in order to serve Jesus, you said you had nothing, listing out all the things you had given away, or were useless, or were dedicated to God. I should have stopped right there and rephrased the question:


Have you stopped looking to yourself to provide for your needs and turned to God to provide for your needs?
So the Scripture needs to be taken in a systematic way even though the Apostles never wrote nor intended it to be taken that way?
That makes sense. I should go use a car to travel across the Atlantic Ocean. I would get exactly as far across the ocean in a car as you will get using the Scripture in a western Rationalism mindset. Rationalism didn't exist when Scripture was written.
 
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Wordkeeper

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So the Scripture needs to be taken in a systematic way even though the Apostles never wrote nor intended it to be taken that way?
That makes sense. I should go use a car to travel across the Atlantic Ocean. I would get exactly as far across the ocean in a car as you will get using the Scripture in a western Rationalism mindset. Rationalism didn't exist when Scripture was written.


Last month, in the seminary (very orthodox, in the sense of strongly in line with Westminster seminary, with which it is affiliated) I pointed out all the corollary texts that supported the theme of choosing between the pursuing the treasures of the world versus the treasures of heaven, the latter having the benefit of the former being added as well. I was told that it was a theoretical teaching, the practical expression of which was to be " ready to give up everything".

Of course this reduces all those texts to a nullity, the point of which was lost on my detractors. And you, I suppose.
 
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sculleywr

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Last month, in the seminary (very orthodox, in the sense of strongly in line with Westminster seminary, with which it is affiliated) I pointed out all the corollary texts that supported the theme of choosing between the pursuing the treasures of the world versus the treasures of heaven, the latter having the benefit of the former being added as well. I was told that it was a theoretical teaching, the practical expression of which was to be " ready to give up everything".

Of course this reduces all those texts to a nullity, the point of which was lost on my detractors. And you, I suppose.
The problem is that if you have no physical belongings, it is going to be extraordinarily difficult to get along and actually be an effective leader. The fact is that even Paul and the Apostles had physical possessions. Paul had tools with which he made tents and paid for a place to live in Corinth. It is not the having of things that is sinful. It is loving those things more than God
 
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Wordkeeper

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The problem is that if you have no physical belongings, it is going to be extraordinarily difficult to get along and actually be an effective leader. The fact is that even Paul and the Apostles had physical possessions. Paul had tools with which he made tents and paid for a place to live in Corinth. It is not the having of things that is sinful. It is loving those things more than God

The workers for the harvest received hundred times homes, families, etc. AFTER they stopped depending on the world, themselves, for daily needs, health, even life:

Numbers 14
24“But My servant Caleb, because he has had a different spirit and has followed Me fully, I will bring into the land which he entered, and his descendants shall take possession of it.

Luke 17
23Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.

Matthew 19
29"And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name's sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life.
 
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sculleywr

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The workers for the harvest received hundred times homes, families, etc. AFTER they stopped depending on the world, themselves, for daily needs, health, even life:

Numbers 14
24“But My servant Caleb, because he has had a different spirit and has followed Me fully, I will bring into the land which he entered, and his descendants shall take possession of it.

Luke 17
23Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.

Matthew 19
29"And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name's sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life.
So how about this, while you're telling me to give up everything in the way you think I should while you don't because you're being hypocritical, get off your high horse
 
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Wordkeeper

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So how about this, while you're telling me to give up everything in the way you think I should while you don't because you're being hypocritical, get off your high horse

That's where the light yoke for those who are heavily laden comes in, the 'good' part of the Good News.

You can ask for terms of peace, "I surrender, Lord, but not yet...".

And make friends with those who are in the Kingdom, using unrighteous mammon, so that when it runs out, you will be welcomed by them into 'eternal life'.
 
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sculleywr

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That's where the light yoke for those who are heavily laden comes in, the 'good' part of the Good News.

You can ask for terms of peace, "I surrender, Lord, but not yet...".

And make friends with those who are in the Kingdom, using unrighteous mammon, so that when it runs out, you will be welcomed by them into 'eternal life'.
Is this even English? I can't figure out what it means.
 
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Wordkeeper

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Is this even English? I can't figure out what it means.

Luke 14
32If he is not able, he will send a delegation while the other is still
a long way off and will ask for terms ofpeace.

What does the metaphor 'terms of peace' represent' in the context of the Gospel?
 
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sculleywr

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Luke 14
32If he is not able, he will send a delegation while the other is still
a long way off and will ask for terms ofpeace.

What does the metaphor 'terms of peace' represent' in the context of the Gospel?
It was a statement that a man who is at war with someone they cannot defeat will try to find peace if they are wise.

A man who is living in sin is at war with God. And when he realizes he cannot defeat God, he tries to find terms of peace, which God has provided in the Apostolic Faith. Unconditional surrender are His terms. In return, He will make us His children, heirs to resources beyond our wildest imaginations.
 
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PanDeVida

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Hi! I grew up as atheist, then became Muslim, then became Christian, and am Christian for 24 years.

Why is Christianity so confused? I think that teaching of Jesus is so clear, so simple. Why did people create one million denominations and one million divisions within those denominations??

Why so hard to simply accept what Jesus is teaching, and live by it?

It looks like everyone is trying to create Theology in order to ignore the clear and pure teaching of Jesus Christ.

Do you agree?

Christian, you must ask yourself when: "did people create one million denominations and one million within those denomination". When did this confusion begin?

For the first 1500 years there was One Christian Church, Catholic by name, this is where all other denomination received the Bible that they have today and yet many of these denomination say that the Catholic Church is not Christian.

Jesus Christ established On Church, and any other man made church is the one that brings about the confusion you speak about.
 
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It was a statement that a man who is at war with someone they cannot defeat will try to find peace if they are wise.

A man who is living in sin is at war with God. And when he realizes he cannot defeat God, he tries to find terms of peace, which God has provided in the Apostolic Faith. Unconditional surrender are His terms. In return, He will make us His children, heirs to resources beyond our wildest imaginations.

Wow, something is not right. You are positing a win win situation.

If a king defeats the opponent, he receives a great reward, which is normally the case.

In your scenario, the king receives a great reward if he SURRENDERS.

I don't know of any scenario which permits that.

Hint

The battle is a project, like the building of a tower. If the king cannot win the great victory, he must ask for more time to meet his opponent, until he gathers more soldiers.

In the context of the Gospel, when God calls, do not disobey, like the Israelites did, because of which God swore that they would never enter his rest.
 
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masmpg

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Hi! I grew up as atheist, then became Muslim, then became Christian, and am Christian for 24 years.

Why is Christianity so confused? I think that teaching of Jesus is so clear, so simple. Why did people create one million denominations and one million divisions within those denominations??

Why so hard to simply accept what Jesus is teaching, and live by it?

It looks like everyone is trying to create Theology in order to ignore the clear and pure teaching of Jesus Christ.

Do you agree?

What the Comforter has revealed to me is that if all who claim the Name of Jesus read, prayed about, and studied John 14-17 there would be ONE Christian church like there should be, instead of following our favorite popular apostate pastor, evangelist or even whole denomination. One very true principle about reading the bible is "A little knowledge is dangerous." We are commanded to study to show ourselves approved unto God for that reason. Churches, pastors, evangelists have their place, but to rely on their interpretation for our salvation will only put us on the same plain as them, NOT where God wants us.
 
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sculleywr

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Wow, something is not right. You are positing a win win situation.

If a king defeats the opponent, he receives a great reward, which is normally the case.

In your scenario, the king receives a great reward if he SURRENDERS.

I don't know of any scenario which permits that.

Hint

The battle is a project, like the building of a tower. If the king cannot win the great victory, he must ask for more time to meet his opponent, until he gathers more soldiers.

In the context of the Gospel, when God calls, do not disobey, like the Israelites did, because of which God swore that they would never enter his rest.
It's what God promised. When we were yet dead in sin, waging war against God, God came to earth and died for us. Any person who lays down his arms and confesses his sin, surrendering his life to Christ, will be taken into His family.

What, is your god not so loving? If He doesn't do that, then I hate to break it to you, because you are irretrievably damned. You were at war with God when you were in sin.

Trying to make the Scripture do these kind of mental gymnastics is unnecessary.
 
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It's what God promised. When we were yet dead in sin, waging war against God, God came to earth and died for us. Any person who lays down his arms and confesses his sin, surrendering his life to Christ, will be taken into His family.

What, is your god not so loving? If He doesn't do that, then I hate to break it to you, because you are irretrievably damned. You were at war with God when you were in sin.

Trying to make the Scripture do these kind of mental gymnastics is unnecessary.

But Scripture says that you should check and see if you had the will power to meet God's requirements of leaving mammon and following Jesus.

God asked Israel to leave her employment. She obeyed.

God asked Israel to have no worries about bread, because man does not live on bread alone but by every word that proceeds from his mouth. Israel failed Christ succeeded.

God asked Israel to put down her life so that the children would be saved. Israel failed, Joshua and Jesus succeeded.

Judas left serving mammon, but when God asked him to trust Jesus for his well being, he failed, seeing the anointing of Jesus with a jar of previous perfume as waste, and endangerment of life through loss, prevention of which could have kept the disciples going for more than a year.

Ananias and Sapphira pretended they had the call, they never left the world, they tried to receive the Kingdom of God, treasure of their own, many times home, family, etc. and Peter told them that as long as that which belonged to God was in their possession, they were free to do with it as they wished, as their will power allowed.

Peter...

Stephen...


Luke 16
12If you can't be trusted with someone else's wealth, who will give you your own?

If you think these are mental gymnastics, you ain't seen nuthin' yet.

Why does Jesus call unrighteous mammon wealth that which belongs to God? What is 'your own'?
 
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bcbsr

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Hi! I grew up as atheist, then became Muslim, then became Christian, and am Christian for 24 years.

Why is Christianity so confused? I think that teaching of Jesus is so clear, so simple. Why did people create one million denominations and one million divisions within those denominations??

Why so hard to simply accept what Jesus is teaching, and live by it?

It looks like everyone is trying to create Theology in order to ignore the clear and pure teaching of Jesus Christ.

Do you agree?
Aren't you a part of "Christianity"? Don't you yourself identify yourself with a denomination (Baptist)?

If you feel that other sects of Christianity are "confused" why don't you ask them concerning the particular things they are confused about?
 
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sculleywr

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But Scripture says that you should check and see if you had the will power to meet God's requirements of leaving mammon and following Jesus.

God asked Israel to leave her employment. She obeyed.

God asked Israel to have no worries about bread, because man does not live on bread alone but by every word that proceeds from his mouth. Israel failed Christ succeeded.

God asked Israel to put down her life so that the children would be saved. Israel failed, Joshua and Jesus succeeded.

Judas left serving mammon, but when God asked him to trust Jesus for his well being, he failed, seeing the anointing of Jesus with a jar of previous perfume as waste, and endangerment of life through loss, prevention of which could have kept the disciples going for more than a year.

Ananias and Sapphira pretended they had the call, they never left the world, they tried to receive the Kingdom of God, treasure of their own, many times home, family, etc. and Peter told them that as long as that which belonged to God was in their possession, they were free to do with it as they wished, as their will power allowed.

Peter...

Stephen...


Luke 16
12If you can't be trusted with someone else's wealth, who will give you your own?

If you think these are mental gymnastics, you ain't seen nuthin' yet.

Why does Jesus call unrighteous mammon wealth that which belongs to God? What is 'your own'?
No it doesn't. You're reading an excuse for man into something where men are without excuse.

There is NO EXCUSE for rejecting the gospel. Any teaching that there is is 100% unadulterated heresy.
 
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Wordkeeper

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No it doesn't. You're reading an excuse for man into something where men are without excuse.

There is NO EXCUSE for rejecting the gospel. Any teaching that there is is 100% unadulterated heresy.

Two reactions have been described:

Poor people with less to lose stopped serving self interest to serve the interests of God.

Rich people with more to lose couldn't muster the required will power to stop serving self interest and asked for terms of peace, extension of the deadline.

No one said anything about rejecting serving the interests of God.

You know having a bad tax consultant can lead to gnashing of teeth when the IRS comes calling.

Are YOU compliant?

Today if you hear his voice, do not disobey like the Israelites did, because of which God said, "They shall never enter my rest".

You can't plead ignorance. It's no defence.

The text clearly says the onus is on you.

Call no man teacher.

Will your heavenly Father deny you his Holy Spirit when you ask for guidance for what the requirement is for receiving eternal life?
 
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sculleywr

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There is if you don't believe any of the premises of the Gospel message.
That isn't an excuse in the Judgment. Whether you accept the truth does not have bearing on its being true.
 
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sculleywr

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Two reactions have been described:

Poor people with less to lose stopped serving self interest to serve the interests of God.

Rich people with more to lose couldn't muster the required will power to stop serving self interest and asked for terms of peace, extension of the deadline.

No one said anything about rejecting serving the interests of God.

You know having a bad tax consultant can lead to gnashing of teeth when the IRS comes calling.

Are YOU compliant?

Today if you hear his voice, do not disobey like the Israelites did, because of which God said, "They shall never enter my rest".

You can't plead ignorance. It's no defence.

The text clearly says the onus is on you.

Call no man teacher.

Will your heavenly Father deny you his Holy Spirit when you ask for guidance for what the requirement is for receiving eternal life?
God made people to be teachers. Scripture also says that. So is it a contradiction? Or are we not to call teacher the persons who God makes a teacher?

I have heard His voice. It's why I am Orthodox. I went to the Church that never changed its teaching for any reason
 
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